Abortion(do guys have a say?)

[Yoite]

I feel ashamed to be a member of the same species as you. I can't think of much more vile than the shit you've been spewing these last few pages. You must be a summer nazi troll who's late to the party.

That's a little harsh

[Hellenic Protectorates]

Of course. And the fact that you recognize that means you are still assuming some risk in sex, even with preventative measures. All adults know this. Thus they need to accept responsibility if they get pregnant.

If we are talking rape, that's a game changer. I think automatically, the man gets no say if he raped, meaning this is not the thread for discussion.

no they have no need to accept YOUR moral code. they can use their own and if it includes abortion then its their moral choice in dealing with an unwanted or tragic pregnancy.

Then why not release all murderers and rapists from prison? They shouldn't have to adhere to OUR moral code if their own includes murder/rape to deal with an unwanted person/need.

[Ceannairceach]

Agreed. I am vehemently opposed to rape to the point of very-near-to-hatred. Rapists deserve every negative thing that happens to them.

Another amen. Rape nearly equates to serial killing in my eyes.

So you do support bodily sovereignty? Then why do you hate abortion?

[Jedi8246]

And, as has been discussed, getting an abortion is being responsible by recognizing that one is not suited for being a mother.

or

since most women having an abortion are already mothers it is recognizing that another pregnancy and another child is not a good idea at that time.

If you recognize that, then you should give the child to adoption, not abort it.

[New England and The Maritimes]

That's somewhat a great idea. Although that sounds like a lot of red tape.

Except the ongoing child support payments are to, you know, SUPPORT your child and make sure it has food, clothes, and shelter.

They're necessary because women who choose to have children are on average low income. Low income men who get low income women pregnant on average earn more than those women, and on average run off. Said women have difficulty supporting those children after they've counted on the man to be there to supplement their lower income.

When women are treated like human beings across the board, child support and alimony will no longer be necessary.

[Hellenic Protectorates]

Agreed. I am vehemently opposed to rape to the point of very-near-to-hatred. Rapists deserve every negative thing that happens to them.

Another amen. Rape nearly equates to serial killing in my eyes.

I have argued repeatedly for Rape to be equated with murder by the Law. I equate it with murdering someone's soul and leaving them to attempt to live afterward.

[Yoite]

Agreed. I am vehemently opposed to rape to the point of very-near-to-hatred. Rapists deserve every negative thing that happens to them.

Another amen. Rape nearly equates to serial killing in my eyes.

I think all rapist should be executed by a public firing squad.

[Ceannairceach]

or

since most women having an abortion are already mothers it is recognizing that another pregnancy and another child is not a good idea at that time.

If you recognize that, then you should give the child to adoption, not abort it.

Adoption doesn't remove the pregnancy, just the child. Not everyone wants to be nearly disabled for five plus months, you know.

[Ashmoria]

i didnt say that it is inevitable that a woman become pregnant.

a woman who IS pregnant has no way of not being responsible for it.

a man can evade responsibility, a woman cant.

having an abortion IS taking responsibility. that YOU dont approve is meaningless. its still taking responsibility.

Your definition of responsibility is not law either.

A man can also get served papers for trying to avoid responsibility. She can sue the a-hole for child support. In this day and age, she often wins. And just because a man can avoid responsibility, doesn't mean he doesn't have it. Same with a women. Just because she can avoid responsibility with abortion, doesn't mean she should.

In any case, the first post of yours I replied to seemed to indicate prevention, not destruction.

she should do what seems best to her to do.

men avoid responsibility to their children all the time. my neice had a baby-daddy who wasnt official employed for years so that he wouldnt have his check garnished.

[Death World Krieg]

My brother didnt have a say when his Fiance aborted the twins that were on the way he was crushed.

[GeneralHaNor]

I honestly don't know how I should reply to this. Berating you for attempting will merely get me yelled at, so...

I suggest using a razor-wire noose. I hear those are quite effective.

I feel ashamed to be a member of the same species as you. I can't think of much more vile than the shit you've been spewing these last few pages. You must be a summer nazi troll who's late to the party.

He's offering me more effective ways to kill myself, seeing as how I'm a horrible person who deserves bad things to happen to me. I assumed you would approve of anything that might hasten my departure from 'your' world.

[The Rich Port]

If you recognize that, then you should give the child to adoption, not abort it.

Abortion doesn't remove the pregnancy, just the child. Not everyone wants to be nearly disabled for five plus months, you know.

I'm not sure most of the people who oppose it are aware of how taxing pregnancies can be on a woman.

[Hellenic Protectorates]

If you recognize that, then you should give the child to adoption, not abort it.

Abortion doesn't remove the pregnancy, just the child. Not everyone wants to be nearly disabled for five plus months, you know.

I shall refer you to the exceedingly long list of easily available, FREE in most cases, preventative measures.

[Ceannairceach]

Abortion doesn't remove the pregnancy, just the child. Not everyone wants to be nearly disabled for five plus months, you know.

I shall refer you to the exceedingly long list of easily available, FREE in most cases, preventative measures.

Preventive measures that don't work when you're already pregnant.

[Hellenic Protectorates]

I feel ashamed to be a member of the same species as you. I can't think of much more vile than the shit you've been spewing these last few pages. You must be a summer nazi troll who's late to the party.

He's offering me more effective ways to kill myself, seeing as how I'm a horrible person who deserves bad things to happen to me. I assumed you would approve of anything that might hasten my departure from 'your' world.

To be honest, I was countering your playing of the victim card.

[Ashmoria]

no they have no need to accept YOUR moral code. they can use their own and if it includes abortion then its their moral choice in dealing with an unwanted or tragic pregnancy.

Then why not release all murderers and rapists from prison? They shouldn't have to adhere to OUR moral code if their own includes murder/rape to deal with an unwanted person/need.

because murder is against the law and abortion isnt.

[The Gregorach]

In my opinion, once a girl is pregnant she should carry the kid to term. If she doesn't want to get pregnant she should either not have sex, make the guy use a rubber, use birth control, or at least the morning after pill. It is a separate genetic entity, and although reliant on the mother for support at the time, is still a human life, and as such should be protected until old enough to prove itself undeserving of life by committing murder or other capital crimes. I consider abortion to be equal to infanticide.

As the law currently stands, I would not expect to be told about anything from a one night stand, unless she wanted me to support the kid, which I would gladly do so upon receipt of proof of paternity. If my wife or girlfriend were to abort my kid though, I would kill her and take my chances with the court.

[Sovereign Oppression]

Your definition of responsibility is not law either.

A man can also get served papers for trying to avoid responsibility. She can sue the a-hole for child support. In this day and age, she often wins. And just because a man can avoid responsibility, doesn't mean he doesn't have it. Same with a women. Just because she can avoid responsibility with abortion, doesn't mean she should.

In any case, the first post of yours I replied to seemed to indicate prevention, not destruction.

she should do what seems best to her to do.

Then likewise, he should be able to do what seems best for him to do.

[Hellenic Protectorates]

I shall refer you to the exceedingly long list of easily available, FREE in most cases, preventative measures.

Preventive measures that don't work when you're already pregnant.

That's why they're preventative.

[Hellenic Protectorates]

Then why not release all murderers and rapists from prison? They shouldn't have to adhere to OUR moral code if their own includes murder/rape to deal with an unwanted person/need.

because murder is against the law and abortion isnt.

But isn't making a law against murder forcing OUR moral code on people who don't wish to adhere to it?

By your own reasoning, why should we be allowed?

[Ashmoria]

or

since most women having an abortion are already mothers it is recognizing that another pregnancy and another child is not a good idea at that time.

If you recognize that, then you should give the child to adoption, not abort it.

yeah....

youre forgetting the danger and inconvenience of pregnancy. it can be financially and physically devastating.

[New England and The Maritimes]

Another amen. Rape nearly equates to serial killing in my eyes.

I have argued repeatedly for Rape to be equated with murder by the Law. I equate it with murdering someone's soul and leaving them to attempt to live afterward.

So you say. Your type say this all the time, after conveniently redefining rape so that ~10% of all actual rapes "count." Your idea when implemented as policy will effectively turn all or most rapes into murders.

You and everyone who agrees with you on this issue are wrong. Women are human beings who have the right to their bodies and all occurrences therein.

[Ashmoria]

because murder is against the law and abortion isnt.

But isn't making a law against murder forcing OUR moral code on people who don't wish to adhere to it?

By your own reasoning, why should we be allowed?

i am not interested in debating why murder needs to be illegal.

[Wiztopia]

My brother didnt have a say when his Fiance aborted the twins that were on the way he was crushed.

Crushed because a woman chose to do what she wanted with her own body?

In my opinion, once a girl is pregnant she should carry the kid to term. If she doesn't want to get pregnant she should either not have sex, make the guy use a rubber, use birth control, or at least the morning after pill. It is a separate genetic entity, and although reliant on the mother for support at the time, is still a human life, and as such should be protected until old enough to prove itself undeserving of life by committing murder or other capital crimes. I consider abortion to be equal to infanticide.

As the law currently stands, I would not expect to be told about anything from a one night stand, unless she wanted me to support the kid, which I would gladly do so upon receipt of proof of paternity. If my wife or girlfriend were to abort my kid though, I would kill her and take my chances with the court.

[Britany]

If you recognize that, then you should give the child to adoption, not abort it.

yeah....

youre forgetting the danger and inconvenience of pregnancy. it can be financially and physically devastating.

A fetus is a life, period. The only reason it can be aborted is to save the mother's life.