Abortion(do guys have a say?)

[Ookawauso]

well, unless its rape they were not forced to have sex

No-one is talking about having sex. We're talking about being pregnant and whether or not women should have the final say in whether or not to have an abortion.

The "forced into it" was in reference to a woman being forced to keep a pregnancy that she does not wish to continue.

Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy unless you can prove that women are impregnated every time they have sex.

consent to sex is consent to an act designed to make people pregnant. if someone does not acknowledge the possibility of pregnancy then its too bad for them

[Dyakovo]

So i can just get in a time machine and convince your mom to have an abortion and thats OK?

I doubt that he would say a word about it if you did it.

Usually I'm the one posting the shorter, more succinct response...

[Dyakovo]

No-one is talking about having sex. We're talking about being pregnant and whether or not women should have the final say in whether or not to have an abortion.

The "forced into it" was in reference to a woman being forced to keep a pregnancy that she does not wish to continue.

Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy unless you can prove that women are impregnated every time they have sex.

consent to sex is consent to an act designed to make people pregnant. if someone does not acknowledge the possibility of pregnancy then its too bad for them

Ahhh... Now we get down to the reality of it...
Pregnancy is punishment for sluts.

I was wondering how long it would take you to get there.

[Ookawauso]

It depends on the circumstances, e.g. you cant kill someone else if their in your body
And then doens't the feotus get to choose what happens to its body?

Yes, actually you can. See my post about justifiable homicide.
The foetus (not being a person) is incapable of making choices, and even if it was it would not have the right to violate a person's bodily autonomy.

i have already said why your wrong about justifiable homicide and what gives someone the right to then make that foetus' choices for it? I dont care about this violation of a persons autonomy argument becausekilling is worse.

[Ashmoria]

No-one is talking about having sex. We're talking about being pregnant and whether or not women should have the final say in whether or not to have an abortion.

The "forced into it" was in reference to a woman being forced to keep a pregnancy that she does not wish to continue.

Consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy unless you can prove that women are impregnated every time they have sex.

consent to sex is consent to an act designed to make people pregnant. if someone does not acknowledge the possibility of pregnancy then its too bad for them

sex can lead to pregnancy. and it would indeed be silly not to acknowledge that possibility, especially if both people are fertile (heterosexual sex only. non-procreative sex not considered).

but we dont have to be bound by biology any more. we can make our own decisions about whether or not to conceive and whether or not to continue a particular pregnancy. its not 100% but its SOOOO much better than just 50 years ago when the government didnt let you make those decisions legally.

[GeneralHaNor]

consent to sex is consent to an act designed to make people pregnant. if someone does not acknowledge the possibility of pregnancy then its too bad for them

Ahhh... Now we get down to the reality of it...
Pregnancy is punishment for sluts.

I was wondering how long it would take you to get there.

Similiarly, Child Support is punishment for men who can't keep it in their pants

[Ookawauso]

So i can just get in a time machine and convince your mom to have an abortion and thats OK?

I'd prefer you didn't.
*shrugs*
On the other hand, if you can actually manage it I wouldn't be in any position to oppose it since I wouldn't actually be a person yet.

but how moral or ethical doyouthink that is?

[Dyakovo]

Ahhh... Now we get down to the reality of it...
Pregnancy is punishment for sluts.

I was wondering how long it would take you to get there.

Similiarly, Child Support is punishment for men who can't keep it in their pants

Except of course, the fact that it isn't... What with child support not being gender specific and all...

[Ookawauso]

I did answer it,and shall again:
not if involves the death of someone else

Abortion does not involve the death of a person, so I guess you are fine with it then...

what do you think sex is for? biologically speaking?

I don't care what sex is for biologically. I have never had sex with the intention of reproducing.

I don't give one why youdo it, and the foetus dies.

[Ashmoria]

Ahhh... Now we get down to the reality of it...
Pregnancy is punishment for sluts.

I was wondering how long it would take you to get there.

Similiarly, Child Support is punishment for men who can't keep it in their pants

the women face the same "punishment" for those same children that the man is paying child support for.

[Ookawauso]

I did answer it,and shall again:
not if involves the death of someone else

what do you think sex is for? biologically speaking?

Then I consider your position immoral.

What do you think sex is for? Are you trying to argue that the only reason anybody has sex is for procreation?

Biologically speaking: yes, pleasure is just a way to make sure we do it, it is the incentive not the purpose.

[GeneralHaNor]

Similiarly, Child Support is punishment for men who can't keep it in their pants

Except of course, the fact that it isn't... What with child support not being gender specific and all...

Okay, even if the application of the law is theoritically equal (big if) in practice it's not. It's a law that dispropitionately effects men, on the grounds that he was unfortunate enough to get the wrong person pregnant, and doesn't control the womb and therefore has no ability to control the outcome.

Consent to sex is not consent to parenthood.

[Osirian Systems]

Making a serious point, I'm pro-Abortion. Not pro-choice, pro-abortion. We're overpopulated and we should cull the numbers down.

As for the idea that rape/condom breakage etc. should be cause to allow an abortion and others such as recklessness should be banned is prepostorous. Circumstantial abortion is a lie. Why should it matter if someone is raped or stupid when the end outcome is the same? It's the destruction of human life.

As for those that argue that you're alive when you're born and thus you're not murdered if it's before hand then you're off our g'damn rocker. You're life as soon as you're sperm.

That said, I have no qualms about allowing abortion simply on the grounds that there's too many of us.

[Dyakovo]

Yes, actually you can. See my post about justifiable homicide.
The foetus (not being a person) is incapable of making choices, and even if it was it would not have the right to violate a person's bodily autonomy.

i have already said why your wrong about justifiable homicide¹ and what gives someone the right to then make that foetus' choices for it?² I dont care about this violation of a persons autonomy³ argument becausekilling is worse.

1: No, you've blathered on with some bullshit that does not even remotely address justifiable homicide.
2: No-one is making any decisions for the foetus at all, however, even if they were they would be justified in doing so because the foetus is completely incapable of making decisions.
3: I know. And I disagree with your claim that women should be slaves.

[Norstal]

Then I consider your position immoral.

What do you think sex is for? Are you trying to argue that the only reason anybody has sex is for procreation?

Biologically speaking: yes, pleasure is just a way to make sure we do it, it is the incentive not the purpose.

Animals have sex for pleasure. Like bonobos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sex ... r_pleasure

[Dyakovo]

Abortion does not involve the death of a person, so I guess you are fine with it then...

I don't care what sex is for biologically. I have never had sex with the intention of reproducing.

I don't give one why youdo it, and the foetus dies.

Yeah, so? A foetus is not a person.

[GeneralHaNor]

Similiarly, Child Support is punishment for men who can't keep it in their pants

the women face the same "punishment" for those same children that the man is paying child support for.

Yeah......of all the jobless mothers riding on child support checks that proves this isn't true.

[Zanarkenisia]

Making a serious point, I'm pro-Abortion. Not pro-choice, pro-abortion. We're overpopulated and we should cull the numbers down.

As for the idea that rape/condom breakage etc. should be cause to allow an abortion and others such as recklessness should be banned is prepostorous. Circumstantial abortion is a lie. Why should it matter if someone is raped or stupid when the end outcome is the same? It's the destruction of human life.

As for those that argue that you're alive when you're born and thus you're not murdered if it's before hand then you're off our g'damn rocker. You're life as soon as you're sperm.

That said, I have no qualms about allowing abortion simply on the grounds that there's too many of us.

Sperm is only half potential personhood.

[Dyakovo]

the women face the same "punishment" for those same children that the man is paying child support for.

Yeah......of all the jobless mothers riding on child support checks that proves this isn't true.

You really think that child support covers all the cost of raising a child?

[Erinkita]

Then I consider your position immoral.

What do you think sex is for? Are you trying to argue that the only reason anybody has sex is for procreation?

Biologically speaking: yes, pleasure is just a way to make sure we do it, it is the incentive not the purpose.

'Biologically speaking'. So, the only reason apart from the reasons you've deliberately decided to ignore using your arbitrary qualifier designed to exclude all other possible motivators. Good job. You've established... nothing.

[Ookawauso]

consent to sex is consent to an act designed to make people pregnant. if someone does not acknowledge the possibility of pregnancy then its too bad for them

Ahhh... Now we get down to the reality of it...
Pregnancy is punishment for sluts.

I was wondering how long it would take you to get there.

Pregnancy is a way to ensure the continual survival of non a-sexual species.
if you have sex with no intention of having a child then you should be careful and make sure you use contraceptives properly.

[Norstal]

Biologically speaking: yes, pleasure is just a way to make sure we do it, it is the incentive not the purpose.

'Biologically speaking'. So, the only reason apart from the reasons you've deliberately decided to ignore using your arbitrary qualifier designed to exclude all other possible motivators. Good job. You've established... nothing.

I think we should ban non-scientists for improperly using scientific theories. Seriously.

[GeneralHaNor]

Yeah......of all the jobless mothers riding on child support checks that proves this isn't true.

You really think that child support covers all the cost of raising a child?

Well no, my mother spent far to much of that check on booze and crack.

[Erinkita]

Ahhh... Now we get down to the reality of it...
Pregnancy is punishment for sluts.

I was wondering how long it would take you to get there.

Pregnancy is a way to ensure the continual survival of non a-sexual species.
if you have sex with no intention of having a child then you should be careful and make sure you use contraceptives properly.

And if you made a mistake, then your body no longer belongs to you. That's what you get for being careless. Let that be a lesson to you, dirty girl.

[Erinkita]

You really think that child support covers all the cost of raising a child?

Well no, my mother spent far to much of that check on booze and crack.

Heroin in my mother's case.