Is the American Dream dead?

[Maurepas]

"You have to be asleep to believe in the American Dream" - George Carlin

oh look, it is one of those wall street protestors who sit on their ass and do nothing all day excpet whine and complain about how bad they got it. Hello crazy marxist bigot

George Carlin was a highly successful comedian, and is dead.

[Genivaria]

"You have to be asleep to believe in the American Dream" - George Carlin

oh look, it is one of those wall street protestors who sit on their ass and do nothing all day excpet whine and complain about how bad they got it. Hello crazy marxist bigot

nice strawman.

[Lotrabme]

What's wrong with connectivity, sustainable development, and respect for human rights?

See my response to Gen?

America Needs to wake up from this American Dream that has turned into an American Nightmare and make it the American Reality, in which we are more of a Meritocratic Republic, not a Mob and Money controlled Representative Democracy, If it takes Me and my fellows to bring you to this new enlightenment than so be it.

Neither Republicans nor Democrats are correct.

[Sarkhaan]

And there are countless other stories of such success which come from other nations.

So it's not exactly the "American" Dream, is it?

Well don't get caught up in semantics. Technically; we are all immigrants. On my fathers side I am only second generation.

He was a young non-English speaker with labor skills.

How many people can achieve that in other nations?

Many. And in other nations, they can achieve it more easily.
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/2/7/45002641.pdf

[Norstal]

"You have to be asleep to believe in the American Dream" - George Carlin

oh look, it is one of those wall street protestors who sit on their ass and do nothing all day excpet whine and complain about how bad they got it. Hello crazy marxist bigot

You strive to make yourself as a parody of conservatives.

Why?

[The Black Forrest]

A myth for the most part? That kind of says it's not a myth.

My old boss was a boat person. He is millionaire now.

The fact that your anecdotal boss could move up does not prove the reality of the American Dream, which is a bit of propaganda that claims that the US, at some mysterious point in our history, was actually a meritocracy in which one could scurry up the social ladder through hard work and intelligence.

You're better than that argument.

Well I don't equate "rags to riches" with the American Dream. His story. His story is a "Rags to Riches" story. He came to this country with nothing. His children are doing great things. One daughter went to Stanford has an MBA and is not semi-retired after a stint with Deloitte and Touche. That's in just one generation.

To suggest it's a myth says it never happens.

Finally, American Dream when I was growing was simply getting an education, a job, a wife and a home. They didn't preach wealth like they do today.

Maybe it's become a misrepresentation?

[Distruzio]

Except that average wages have held steady since the mid-to-late 90's, for one of the few times in our nations history. In the last two years, they have declined 7.8%. If anyone was living paycheck to paycheck two years ago, they are now unable to make ends meet.

Nonsense. No one except those suffering from entitlement sit on their hands when confronted with adversity. Those living paycheck to paycheck two years ago have likely taken a second job, moved into a better paying profession, or cut their expenses in order to make ends meet. Your statement implies that the average wage earner is a moron unable to discern for himself what he needs to live. They'll make adjustments to those ends in order that they can survive. The impoverishment is lamentable, but it is not the end of the world.

Yes. Because those people "actually trying to achieve that goal of hard work and riches later" won't be relying upon publicly educated workers to staff their business.

Publicly educated workers are no concern. The public educators are.

Or roads and ports built with taxpayer money taken without consent.

Fixed.

They won't rely upon the military and governments for political stability, who are paid with our tax money.

Thieves and murderers, the lot. The military gets a pass in that they are pitiable souls who simply fire where told. Politicians? Criminals. But then again, wasn't the purpose of the thread to call into question the sustainability of the American dream? Who sold the public the american dream but the very politicians servicing that gov't you claim offers political stability? I'm wondering, where is that stability "our tax money" pays for?

They won't need police protection or fire protection either, I suppose.

See adjustment made for the "roads" comment.

So yes. Keep railing that government employees "steal" their paychecks.

I never once said the gov't employee steals the money. I said the gov't steals the money. Meaning the politicians and those supporting expropriatory legislation are the thieves. This does not necessarily mean that the average postal worker is a thief. Just that he earns a living on stolen money.

[Euronion]

not true at all, that is just what liberals say to disguise the truth of what has happened to America, Steve Jobs started in his garage, Bill Gates started in his garage, when my grandfather came to America he didn't speak a word of English and was making a cent an hour on the farm. That was in 1945, by the time he retired in 1970 he had held the position of the state manager for California of Lucky's imports and exports, had three children, a wife, three cars, and four houses for rent. If that isn't an American Dream I do not know what is

Yay! You can cite the handful of modern examples that managed to break through. Great.

Yet this is a nation of 350+ million people. And the vast majority can't. Worse yet? Even fewer of them can today than when Steve Jobs and Bill Gates and your grandfather got here.

I was responding to the original comment that rags to riches was a mith which it is not, secondly the United States has a population of 318 million, thirdly, the reason why this is so is because people realise the more they work the more they will be taxed, but if yous tay poor not only do you not get to work, but you get free healthcare, free education, free drugs, free wealthfare money to do with as you please, while if you become a member of the middle class or the bourgeoisie you get taxed more and more until you reach the upper class where your tax rate goes from 65% to a steady 30%, federal statistics show that 47% of AMericans do not pay Federal income taxes due to poor economic statuses, children, ect.

[Distruzio]

See my response to Gen?

America Needs to wake up from this American Dream that has turned into an American Nightmare and make it the American Reality, in which we are more of a Meritocratic Republic, not a Mob and Money controlled Representative Democracy, If it takes Me and my fellows to bring you to this new enlightenment than so be it.

Neither Republicans nor Democrats are correct.

/genuine confusion

Come again?

[Genivaria]

Yay! You can cite the handful of modern examples that managed to break through. Great.

Yet this is a nation of 350+ million people. And the vast majority can't. Worse yet? Even fewer of them can today than when Steve Jobs and Bill Gates and your grandfather got here.

I was responding to the original comment that rags to riches was a mith which it is not, secondly the United States has a population of 318 million, thirdly, the reason why this is so is because people realise the more they work the more they will be taxed, but if yous tay poor not only do you not get to work, but you get free healthcare, free education, free drugs, free wealthfare money to do with as you please, while if you become a member of the middle class or the bourgeoisie you get taxed more and more until you reach the upper class where your tax rate goes from 65% to a steady 30%, federal statistics show that 47% of AMericans do not pay Federal income taxes due to poor economic statuses, children, ect.

Where the hell do you live? I'd like to move there.

[Distruzio]

I prefer individual rights to corporate rights meaning I prefer property rights to human rights.

Very serious.

[Norstal]

America Needs to wake up from this American Dream that has turned into an American Nightmare and make it the American Reality, in which we are more of a Meritocratic Republic, not a Mob and Money controlled Representative Democracy, If it takes Me and my fellows to bring you to this new enlightenment than so be it.

Neither Republicans nor Democrats are correct.

/genuine confusion

Come again?

I think that guy wants to make America into a literal Roman Empire.

[Euronion]

Thieves and murderers, the lot. The military gets a pass in that they are pitiable souls who simply fire where told.

excuse me, but did you just insult the over 2,000 men and women woh have lost their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan, because if you are than you are no better than that guy who stands outisde military funerals telling gay soldier's familys that their loved one is going to hell. Have some respoect for the people that protect you from foreign threats

[Genivaria]

(Image)

Very serious.

So how do you feel about slavery?

[Euronion]

I was responding to the original comment that rags to riches was a mith which it is not, secondly the United States has a population of 318 million, thirdly, the reason why this is so is because people realise the more they work the more they will be taxed, but if yous tay poor not only do you not get to work, but you get free healthcare, free education, free drugs, free wealthfare money to do with as you please, while if you become a member of the middle class or the bourgeoisie you get taxed more and more until you reach the upper class where your tax rate goes from 65% to a steady 30%, federal statistics show that 47% of AMericans do not pay Federal income taxes due to poor economic statuses, children, ect.

Where the hell do you live? I'd like to move there.

California, the golden state that is currently in 26 billion dollars in debt and rising

[Genivaria]

/genuine confusion

Come again?

I think that guy wants to make America into a literal Roman Empire.

I'm trying to decide whether or not I support that idea......get Conservative Morality in here

[Lotrabme]

Distruzio your points are very good but I find it a fault that you believe America can be saved, America as it is must face an unalterable change for the better or be destroyed. The Politicians are criminals who have lied to us time and time again, a supporter of one party is the same as the supporter of another, sheep lead to be fed more lies from parties using millions of dollars simply in campaign adds.

[Sarkhaan]

The fact that your anecdotal boss could move up does not prove the reality of the American Dream, which is a bit of propaganda that claims that the US, at some mysterious point in our history, was actually a meritocracy in which one could scurry up the social ladder through hard work and intelligence.

You're better than that argument.

Well I don't equate "rags to riches" with the American Dream. His story. His story is a "Rags to Riches" story. He came to this country with nothing. His children are doing great things. One daughter went to Stanford has an MBA and is not semi-retired after a stint with Deloitte and Touche. That's in just one generation.

To suggest it's a myth says it never happens.

Ahhh...fair point. Fair point. I retract that bit.

Finally, American Dream when I was growing was simply getting an education, a job, a wife and a home. They didn't preach wealth like they do today.

When I was in school (late 80's-2004), the American Dream was taught (both as a historical concept and as an existent concept still going today) that anyone could become part of the elites. It was contrasted with the static social hierarchies of Europe, and particularly England. Everywhere else in the world (or at least the world worth talking about, it would seem), you were tied to the class you were born into. Here? You could work hard and make it.

Maybe it's become a misrepresentation?

Perhaps, but from what I have seen historically, it has always been what I outlined.

[Norstal]

California, the golden state that is currently in 26 billion dollars in debt and rising

I do not have free welfare, free healthcare, or free drugs.

And I live in California.

[Euronion]

Very serious.

So how do you feel about slavery?

if you are going to start that arguement that someone for private property rights would be pro-slavery back in the 1800s please refraim from that liberal arguement, he/she is obviously referring to the fact that he/she would like to have his/her daughters sell lemondae on the front lawn without being stopped by a police officer because they don't have a $500 permit.

[Lotrabme]

However to Distruzio, your bit about the soldiers was out of taste, its the politicians who should be hung and shot down the streets by the soldiers they forced into action in secret wars that cause alot of the debt we have to day that is running the economy underground. The Soldiers are not thieves and murderers, as I said, your call was out of taste.

[Genivaria]

So how do you feel about slavery?

if you are going to start that arguement that someone for private property rights would be pro-slavery back in the 1800s please refraim from that liberal arguement, he/she is obviously referring to the fact that he/she would like to have his/her daughters sell lemondae on the front lawn without being stopped by a police officer because they don't have a $500 permit.

Oh, yes obviously.

[Norstal]

So how do you feel about slavery?

if you are going to start that arguement that someone for private property rights would be pro-slavery back in the 1800s please refraim from that liberal arguement, he/she is obviously referring to the fact that he/she would like to have his/her daughters sell lemondae on the front lawn without being stopped by a police officer because they don't have a $500 permit.

Excuse me, but, can you please stop calling everything you hate "liberal", please? Thanks.

[Sarkhaan]

Except that average wages have held steady since the mid-to-late 90's, for one of the few times in our nations history. In the last two years, they have declined 7.8%. If anyone was living paycheck to paycheck two years ago, they are now unable to make ends meet.

Nonsense. No one except those suffering from entitlement sit on their hands when confronted with adversity. Those living paycheck to paycheck two years ago have likely taken a second job, moved into a better paying profession, or cut their expenses in order to make ends meet. Your statement implies that the average wage earner is a moron unable to discern for himself what he needs to live. They'll make adjustments to those ends in order that they can survive. The impoverishment is lamentable, but it is not the end of the world.

I'm sorry...you're joking, right? 9% unemployment by government count. That doesn't include those that have given up looking, those that have part-time jobs and desire full time employment, nor those that are underemployed. My statement implies that the system is fucked.

Read this, then we'll talk. The charts do it better than I could.
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wal ... 11-10?op=1

As for consent, if you can vote, you made your choice. You may have lost, but you were represented, and thereby gave your consent to everything that has happened.

[NERVUN]

oh look, it is one of those wall street protestors who sit on their ass and do nothing all day excpet whine and complain about how bad they got it. Hello crazy marxist bigot

Hello flaming and baiting. And now, goodbye. *** One day ban ***.