Is the American Dream dead?

[Yuktova]

"You have to be asleep to believe in the American Dream" - George Carlin

[Maurepas]

This.
The Rag to Riches story is a myth for the most part.

A myth for the most part? That kind of says it's not a myth.

My old boss was a boat person. He is millionaire now.

*pictures a "boat person"*




Yes, I'd imagine that'd be quite the feat to become a millionaire with that kind of disfigurement,

[Beiluxia]

It will be replaced by, as the ex-Belgian prime minister put it, the European Dream.

In a nutshell, it differs from the American Dream in that individuals find security not through accummulation of wealth, but through connectivity, sustainable development, and respect for human rights.

I'll gladly move out of the States once I'm of age. Where do I sign up?

[The Nuclear Fist]

It was all just a dream.

[Sarkhaan]

This.
The Rag to Riches story is a myth for the most part.

A myth for the most part? That kind of says it's not a myth.

My old boss was a boat person. He is millionaire now.

The fact that your anecdotal boss could move up does not prove the reality of the American Dream, which is a bit of propaganda that claims that the US, at some mysterious point in our history, was actually a meritocracy in which one could scurry up the social ladder through hard work and intelligence.

You're better than that argument.

[Genivaria]

It will be replaced by, as the ex-Belgian prime minister put it, the European Dream.

In a nutshell, it differs from the American Dream in that individuals find security not through accummulation of wealth, but through connectivity, sustainable development, and respect for human rights.

I'll gladly move out of the States once I'm of age. Where do I sign up?

Ya have to learn French first.

[Keronians]

It will be replaced by, as the ex-Belgian prime minister put it, the European Dream.

In a nutshell, it differs from the American Dream in that individuals find security not through accummulation of wealth, but through connectivity, sustainable development, and respect for human rights.

I'll gladly move out of the States once I'm of age. Where do I sign up?

Excellent.

In all honesty, though, I do like the European Dream over the American Dream as well.

[Keronians]

I'll gladly move out of the States once I'm of age. Where do I sign up?

Ya have to learn French first.

And German and English.

I personally fail in that I don't know German. I know English, French, Spanish and Hindi. One of those is irrelevant to European languages, and another is not important enough.

[Euronion]

The American Dream was a bit of propaganda in the first place, and never actually existed. At least, not for all Americans.

This.
The Rag to Riches story is a myth for the most part.

not true at all, that is just what liberals say to disguise the truth of what has happened to America, Steve Jobs started in his garage, Bill Gates started in his garage, when my grandfather came to America he didn't speak a word of English and was making a cent an hour on the farm. That was in 1945, by the time he retired in 1970 he had held the position of the state manager for California of Lucky's imports and exports, had three children, a wife, three cars, and four houses for rent. If that isn't an American Dream I do not know what is

[AiliailiA]

ignoring the scatterbrain structure of your op, i say it isnt.

People can still move up in the world. The common man can, if he is willing to take the risk, move from being pennyless to rich. They have to be willing to risk it all and work there hands to the bone, but all it takes is one great invention or starting a successful bussiness to skyrocket up the social ladder.

Unfortunetly, especially in times like these, people are growing unwilling to take these risks. The dream isnt dead, but it has definetly grown lazy and afraid.

Actually, social mobility is not only at one of its lowest points in history, but is also one of the lowest in the developed world.



Chart is from this article:
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wal ... 11-10?op=1

It's a shame the chart cuts out at 2005 or so. The GFC would have to be a bigger drop than the relatively mild 2000-01 recession.

EDIT: Wow at that article. "Shit is fucked up and bullshit" indeed.

[Beiluxia]

I'll gladly move out of the States once I'm of age. Where do I sign up?

Ya have to learn French first.

Fine, I'll just move to the British Isles and never go the Mainland!

[The Black Forrest]

A myth for the most part? That kind of says it's not a myth.

My old boss was a boat person. He is millionaire now.

And there are countless other stories of such success which come from other nations.

So it's not exactly the "American" Dream, is it?

Well don't get caught up in semantics. Technically; we are all immigrants. On my fathers side I am only second generation.

He was a young non-English speaker with labor skills.

How many people can achieve that in other nations?

[Maurepas]

Ya have to learn French first.

Fine, I'll just move to the British Isles and never go the Mainland!

Well, unfortunately, the British opted out of that particular zone...

[Euronion]

It will be replaced by, as the ex-Belgian prime minister put it, the European Dream.

In a nutshell, it differs from the American Dream in that individuals find security not through accummulation of wealth, but through connectivity, sustainable development, and respect for human rights.

Yes because Greece and Portugal's economic crises, Spanish unemployment, riots, and the possible dissolving of the European Union definately inforce that.

[Beiluxia]

This.
The Rag to Riches story is a myth for the most part.

not true at all, that is just what liberals say to disguise the truth of what has happened to America, Steve Jobs started in his garage, Bill Gates started in his garage, when my grandfather came to America he didn't speak a word of English and was making a cent an hour on the farm. That was in 1945, by the time he retired in 1970 he had held the position of the state manager for California of Lucky's imports and exports, had three children, a wife, three cars, and four houses for rent. If that isn't an American Dream I do not know what is

You can find that in any other country with high immigration rates or large percentage of population. The more people, the more success stories. In the end US is just like any other nation, with one success story for every one hundred barely scratching a living.

[Distruzio]

Ew.

Yes, Human Rights, ew.

I prefer individual rights to corporate rights meaning I prefer property rights to human rights.

[Sarkhaan]

Is the American Dream dead?

You had to be asleep to believe that tripe in the first place.

You know the old adage of success through hard work, doesn't seem to get you anywhere nowadays but a pile of lifelong debt.

Then don't borrow any money. Spend only what you earn. You aren't "entitled" to the same, or even a similar, standard of living as someone who earns more than you. Those drowning in debt have, in a very real way, brought it on themselves. My parents included.

Except that average wages have held steady since the mid-to-late 90's, for one of the few times in our nations history. In the last two years, they have declined 7.8%. If anyone was living paycheck to paycheck two years ago, they are now unable to make ends meet.

It worked for my parents when my father a penniless immigrant from Indonesia landed a job with the Postal Service and we managed to a decent middle class existence, say what you will about the Federal Government, but they sure provide a tool for upwards social mobility. That's why I hope to go the Fed route after my stint in the Army.

A "job" on the public payroll is not a productive job, whatsoever and therefore violates your interpretation of the "american dream" by itself. There is no "job" while on the public doll. If you work for gov't, the you earn your pay from money stolen from the people actually trying to achieve that goal of hard work and riches later.

Yes. Because those people "actually trying to achieve that goal of hard work and riches later" won't be relying upon publicly educated workers to staff their business. Or roads and ports built with taxpayer money. They won't rely upon the military and governments for political stability, who are paid with our tax money. They won't need police protection or fire protection either, I suppose.

So yes. Keep railing that government employees "steal" their paychecks.

[Distruzio]

Ew.

What's wrong with connectivity, sustainable development, and respect for human rights?

See my response to Gen?

[Euronion]

not true at all, that is just what liberals say to disguise the truth of what has happened to America, Steve Jobs started in his garage, Bill Gates started in his garage, when my grandfather came to America he didn't speak a word of English and was making a cent an hour on the farm. That was in 1945, by the time he retired in 1970 he had held the position of the state manager for California of Lucky's imports and exports, had three children, a wife, three cars, and four houses for rent. If that isn't an American Dream I do not know what is

You can find that in any other country with high immigration rates or large percentage of population. The more people, the more success stories. In the end US is just like any other nation, with one success story for every one hundred barely scratching a living.

My uncle has a similar story, just look at the chart of social mobility in the early 1900s that Sarkhaan posted

[New Embossia]

Sure, but you have to pay your American Dream Tax first.

[Sarkhaan]

This.
The Rag to Riches story is a myth for the most part.

not true at all, that is just what liberals say to disguise the truth of what has happened to America, Steve Jobs started in his garage, Bill Gates started in his garage, when my grandfather came to America he didn't speak a word of English and was making a cent an hour on the farm. That was in 1945, by the time he retired in 1970 he had held the position of the state manager for California of Lucky's imports and exports, had three children, a wife, three cars, and four houses for rent. If that isn't an American Dream I do not know what is

Yay! You can cite the handful of modern examples that managed to break through. Great.

Yet this is a nation of 350+ million people. And the vast majority can't. Worse yet? Even fewer of them can today than when Steve Jobs and Bill Gates and your grandfather got here.

[Norstal]

Is the American Dream dead? You know the old adage of success through hard work, doesn't seem to get you anywhere nowadays but a pile of lifelong debt. It worked for my parents when my father a penniless immigrant from Indonesia landed a job with the Postal Service and we managed to a decent middle class existence, say what you will about the Federal Government, but they sure provide a tool for upwards social mobility. That's why I hope to go the Fed route after my stint in the Army.

Nope, it's in Canada now.

And I'm from Indonesia too. So don't be telling me that the American Dream is dead. D:

[Genivaria]

Yes, Human Rights, ew.

I prefer individual rights to corporate rights meaning I prefer property rights to human rights.

[Maurepas]

This.
The Rag to Riches story is a myth for the most part.

not true at all, that is just what liberals say to disguise the truth of what has happened to America, Steve Jobs started in his garage, Bill Gates started in his garage, when my grandfather came to America he didn't speak a word of English and was making a cent an hour on the farm. That was in 1945, by the time he retired in 1970 he had held the position of the state manager for California of Lucky's imports and exports, had three children, a wife, three cars, and four houses for rent. If that isn't an American Dream I do not know what is

Steve Jobs and Bill Gates went to Harvard, and only dropped out because there was no computer program available.

They sure as hell didn't start from "rags", they started in their garage because it was convenient.

[Euronion]

"You have to be asleep to believe in the American Dream" - George Carlin

oh look, it is one of those wall street protestors who sit on their ass and do nothing all day excpet whine and complain about how bad they got it. Hello crazy marxist bigot