Is the American Dream dead?

[Genivaria]

Or Catholic.

I didn't say it was an equal, good, or fair dream. I said I think I can pinpoint when it ended,

Fair enough.

[Sarkhaan]

Actually, social mobility is not only at one of its lowest points in history, but is also one of the lowest in the developed world.



Chart is from this article:
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wal ... 11-10?op=1

as has the probability of it moving down. People seem to have lost there desire to risk it all on a dream.

No...people have lost the ability to risk anything. If I can't afford to eat and pay my rent right now, I sure as hell can't save up enough to take any kind of risk that takes more than a quarter and the lint in my pocket.

Desire has little to do with social mobility. Given the opportunity, the vast majority will work to have a better life for themselves and their families.

[DaWoad]

Actually, social mobility is not only at one of its lowest points in history, but is also one of the lowest in the developed world.



Chart is from this article:
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wal ... 11-10?op=1

Are you saying that social mobility in the 21st century is lower than in the 13th? I highly doubt it.

no? lower than the 1950s though, as shown in the graph

[Keronians]

It will be replaced by, as the ex-Belgian prime minister put it, the European Dream.

In a nutshell, it differs from the American Dream in that individuals find security not through accummulation of wealth, but through connectivity, sustainable development, and respect for human rights.

[Genivaria]

It will be replaced by, as the ex-Belgian prime minister put it, the European Dream.

In a nutshell, it differs from the American Dream in that individuals find security not through accummulation of wealth, but through connectivity, sustainable development, and respect for human rights.

Sounds good to me. I'll take it.

[Socialist States Owen]

Much alike American exceptionalism, the American dream was never anything more than a nationalistic myth.

[Beiluxia]

The American Dream was a bit of propaganda in the first place, and never actually existed. At least, not for all Americans.

This.
The Rag to Riches story is a myth for the most part.

^Both quotes above. It was basically propaganda to lure immigrants to the US.

Because the US hasn't an aristocracy, no. However the American Dream is more alive in other countries, who have even less of an aristocracy.

If the American Dream exists in other countries, it wouldn't really be the American Dream now would it?

[Keronians]

It will be replaced by, as the ex-Belgian prime minister put it, the European Dream.

In a nutshell, it differs from the American Dream in that individuals find security not through accummulation of wealth, but through connectivity, sustainable development, and respect for human rights.

Sounds good to me. I'll take it.

Another conversion.

[Sarkhaan]

Actually, social mobility is not only at one of its lowest points in history, but is also one of the lowest in the developed world.



Chart is from this article:
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wal ... 11-10?op=1

Are you saying that social mobility in the 21st century is lower than in the 13th? I highly doubt it.

...was the USA around in the 13th century? No? Then why would I be discussing it?

...and does it not say "1950" on the chart? Why yes...yes it does! So that means either a) the author chose not to look back past there or b) the statistics don't exist. I'll give you a hint as to which one it is. It's b.

[The Black Forrest]

Much alike American exceptionalism, the American dream was never anything more than a nationalistic myth.

Yeah. Do you even know what the American Dream was.

How exactly was it a myth?

[Distruzio]

Is the American Dream dead?

You had to be asleep to believe that tripe in the first place.

You know the old adage of success through hard work, doesn't seem to get you anywhere nowadays but a pile of lifelong debt.

Then don't borrow any money. Spend only what you earn. You aren't "entitled" to the same, or even a similar, standard of living as someone who earns more than you. Those drowning in debt have, in a very real way, brought it on themselves. My parents included.

It worked for my parents when my father a penniless immigrant from Indonesia landed a job with the Postal Service and we managed to a decent middle class existence, say what you will about the Federal Government, but they sure provide a tool for upwards social mobility. That's why I hope to go the Fed route after my stint in the Army.

A "job" on the public payroll is not a productive job, whatsoever and therefore violates your interpretation of the "american dream" by itself. There is no "job" while on the public doll. If you work for gov't, the you earn your pay from money stolen from the people actually trying to achieve that goal of hard work and riches later.

[Euronion]

thanks to big government, big regulations, big taxes, bad politics, and the left wing marxist bigots, for now the american dream is dead, but hopefully we can recoperate fast enough before there is a chinese dream

[Maurepas]

Much alike American exceptionalism, the American dream was never anything more than a nationalistic myth.

According to Chris Matthews, Barack Obama exemplifies American Exceptionalism...somehow.

I hate those commercials on MSNBC, I really do, >_>

[Sarkhaan]

The American Dream was a bit of propaganda in the first place, and never actually existed. At least, not for all Americans.

This.
The Rag to Riches story is a myth for the most part.

I, for one, blame Horatio Alger. I also blame him for the worst English paper I ever wrote.

[Distruzio]

It will be replaced by, as the ex-Belgian prime minister put it, the European Dream.

In a nutshell, it differs from the American Dream in that individuals find security not through accummulation of wealth, but through connectivity, sustainable development, and respect for human rights.

Ew.

[Genivaria]

Much alike American exceptionalism, the American dream was never anything more than a nationalistic myth.

Yeah. Do you even know what the American Dream was.

How exactly was it a myth?

The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States in which freedom includes a promise of the possibility of prosperity and success. In the definition of the American Dream by James Truslow Adams in 1931, "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.[1] The idea of the American Dream is rooted in the United States Declaration of Independence which proclaims that "all men are created equal" and that they are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights" including "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."[2]

[California Bay Area]

as has the probability of it moving down. People seem to have lost there desire to risk it all on a dream.

No...people have lost the ability to risk anything. If I can't afford to eat and pay my rent right now, I sure as hell can't save up enough to take any kind of risk that takes more than a quarter and the lint in my pocket.

Desire has little to do with social mobility. Given the opportunity, the vast majority will work to have a better life for themselves and their families.

People are more Likely to risk everything when they don't have enough to eat and so on

[Maurepas]

Yeah. Do you even know what the American Dream was.

How exactly was it a myth?

The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States in which freedom includes a promise of the possibility of prosperity and success. In the definition of the American Dream by James Truslow Adams in 1931, "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.[1] The idea of the American Dream is rooted in the United States Declaration of Independence which proclaims that "all men are created equal" and that they are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights" including "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."[2]

The American Dream was obviously a Communist fantasy, it could never work in the United States.

[Genivaria]

It will be replaced by, as the ex-Belgian prime minister put it, the European Dream.

In a nutshell, it differs from the American Dream in that individuals find security not through accummulation of wealth, but through connectivity, sustainable development, and respect for human rights.

Ew.

Yes, Human Rights, ew.

[The Black Forrest]

The American Dream was a bit of propaganda in the first place, and never actually existed. At least, not for all Americans.

This.
The Rag to Riches story is a myth for the most part.

A myth for the most part? That kind of says it's not a myth.

My old boss was a boat person. He is millionaire now.

[Genivaria]

The American Dream was obviously a Communist fantasy, it could never work in the United States.

Holy shit I was thinking the same thing.

[Keronians]

It will be replaced by, as the ex-Belgian prime minister put it, the European Dream.

In a nutshell, it differs from the American Dream in that individuals find security not through accummulation of wealth, but through connectivity, sustainable development, and respect for human rights.

Ew.

What's wrong with connectivity, sustainable development, and respect for human rights?

[Sarkhaan]

Much alike American exceptionalism, the American dream was never anything more than a nationalistic myth.

Yeah. Do you even know what the American Dream was.

How exactly was it a myth?

It never existed. There was never a moment in American history where anyone could move rapidly up the social ladder, hauling their weight by their own bootstraps. American Indians, blacks and women never had a shot at it, and in many ways still don't. Neither did Catholics. Or LGBTQ people.

[Keronians]

This.
The Rag to Riches story is a myth for the most part.

A myth for the most part? That kind of says it's not a myth.

My old boss was a boat person. He is millionaire now.

And there are countless other stories of such success which come from other nations.

So it's not exactly the "American" Dream, is it?

[Genivaria]

Yeah. Do you even know what the American Dream was.

How exactly was it a myth?

It never existed. There was never a moment in American history where anyone could move rapidly up the social ladder, hauling their weight by their own bootstraps. American Indians, blacks and women never had a shot at it, and in many ways still don't. Neither did Catholics. Or LGBTQ people.

Or the non-religious.