NationStates

California Bay Area wrote:

F1-Insanity wrote:
So?

We cannot let half the world come in. There has to be some kind of limit. And yes, we should
be picky and choosy. And besides, there's a huge moral hazard at continuously taking the 'best and brightest' away from their home countries... and also a moral hazard in letting in tons of potential cheap labor that will price American workers out of a job. As said, why pay an American a living wage if you can get away with paying an illegal a fraction?

Immigration is a good thing for the economy as the saying goes the more the merrier

Which is why the economy is doing so fine and dandy right now... oh wait...

You can always count on the 'perpetual population growth' pseudo economists to come out of the woodwork with the same old garbage... YAY for 20 billion people on the planet! Prosperity will reign supreme! /sarc

Lessnt wrote:

California Bay Area wrote:Ok there is poverty and a lot of people not getting enough to eat but they have to wait years to get into the us of a. But they have a good chance of getting across the border illegally and boom they have a better life.

So they made their decision.Now they live with it.
People are free to make mistakes.
WE have people in poverty and people here not getting enough to eat.(surprising but true)

It's not a mistake they get a better life instantly .

F1-Insanity wrote:

California Bay Area wrote:
Immigration is a good thing for the economy as the saying goes the more the merrier

Which is why the economy is doing so fine and dandy right now... oh wait...

You can always count on the 'perpetual population growth' pseudo economists to come out of the woodwork with the same old garbage... YAY for 20 billion people on the planet! Prosperity will reign supreme! /sarc

I am not talking about overpopulation but it's not a problem . Any way immigrates lead to a better economy whether you like it or not.

California Bay Area wrote:

Lessnt wrote:EH.....no.
All mass exoduses have been accompanied with major problems.

Oh really they take a lot of the jobs we would not do even if they weren't here . They are not taking Anyones job away exept maybe a 15 year old. This leads to a better economy why it does I haven't really understood but we then go for the big paying( money wise) jobs thus leading to a better economy but again the immigrates alone make a better economy .

If they were never there in the first place you would see americans doing those jobs.
They have pushed americans out almost completely for decades of course if they suddenly left there would need to be time for readjustment.
They are taking away the chance to get the job.They have been for decades.
IN california we have had them coming over for the last 30+ years.Taking the jobs.
After that long of course the culture would work against americans and there would be no experienced workers.
But IT IS BETTER TO BE EMPLOYED AND MAKING LOW WAGES THAN NOT MAKING ANYTHING!!!
Your *taking* an americans option and turning into the illegal pathway for a better life.

The California DREAM Act doesn't have anything to do with immigration policy, if by "immigration policy" we are talking about how many people we let in. The California DREAM Act, like every state-level DREAM Act and like the federal DREAM Act also, is about a very different set of principles: equality under law, republicanism in the classic sense, a government that looks out for the interests of all people, not just those in preferred categories.

I oppose caste systems. Thus, I support this law. Indeed, the main criticism I have of it is that it does not go nearly far enough--though, in fairness, there is only so much further California can go without federal action.

Lessnt wrote:

California Bay Area wrote:
Oh really they take a lot of the jobs we would not do even if they weren't here . They are not taking Anyones job away exept maybe a 15 year old. This leads to a better economy why it does I haven't really understood but we then go for the big paying( money wise) jobs thus leading to a better economy but again the immigrates alone make a better economy .

If they were never there in the first place you would see americans doing those jobs.
They have pushed americans out almost completely for decades of course if they suddenly left there would need to be time for readjustment.
They are taking away the chance to get the job.They have been for decades.
IN california we have had them coming over for the last 30+ years.Taking the jobs.
After that long of course the culture would work against americans and there would be no experienced workers.
But IT IS BETTER TO BE EMPLOYED AND MAKING LOW WAGES THAN NOT MAKING ANYTHING!!!
Your *taking* an americans option and turning into the illegal pathway for a better life.

So the jobs they take like doing agricultural labor in the hot sun all day was stolen from hard working Americans and would be filled by hard working Americans if they left. Tell that to the Farmers in the georgiawho's crops are rotting after a huge hunk of their work force (illegals) ditched town due to harsher laws. I see no one in America going in to take up the job they left.

Soheran wrote:The California DREAM Act doesn't have anything to do with immigration policy, if by "immigration policy" we are talking about how many people we let in. The California DREAM Act, like every state-level DREAM Act and like the federal DREAM Act also, is about a very different set of principles: equality under law, republicanism in the classic sense, a government that looks out for the interests of all people, not just those in preferred categories.

I oppose caste systems. Thus, I support this law. Indeed, the main criticism I have of it is that it does not go nearly far enough--though, in fairness, there is only so much further California can go without federal action.

California is about ready to burst if they keep doing things like this.
Your gonna see riots.

The Corparation wrote:

Lessnt wrote:If they were never there in the first place you would see americans doing those jobs.
They have pushed americans out almost completely for decades of course if they suddenly left there would need to be time for readjustment.
They are taking away the chance to get the job.They have been for decades.
IN california we have had them coming over for the last 30+ years.Taking the jobs.
After that long of course the culture would work against americans and there would be no experienced workers.
But IT IS BETTER TO BE EMPLOYED AND MAKING LOW WAGES THAN NOT MAKING ANYTHING!!!
Your *taking* an americans option and turning into the illegal pathway for a better life.

So the jobs they take like doing agricultural labor in the hot sun all day was stolen from hard working Americans and would be filled by hard working Americans if they left. Tell that to the Farmers in the georgiawho's crops are rotting after a huge hunk of their work force (illegals) ditched town due to harsher laws. I see no one in America going in to take up the job they left.

I already explained that if you relied on an illegal workforce of course your gonna be affected by LAW ACTUALLY BEING ENFORCED!

Lessnt wrote:California is about ready to burst if they keep doing things like this.

California is not going to burst. Its problems have very little to do with this sort of legislation.

Your gonna see riots.

No, you won't.

Lessnt wrote:

California Bay Area wrote:
Oh really they take a lot of the jobs we would not do even if they weren't here . They are not taking Anyones job away exept maybe a 15 year old. This leads to a better economy why it does I haven't really understood but we then go for the big paying( money wise) jobs thus leading to a better economy but again the immigrates alone make a better economy .

If they were never there in the first place you would see americans doing those jobs.
They have pushed americans out almost completely for decades of course if they suddenly left there would need to be time for readjustment.
They are taking away the chance to get the job.They have been for decades.
IN california we have had them coming over for the last 30+ years.Taking the jobs.
After that long of course the culture would work against americans and there would be no experienced workers.
But IT IS BETTER TO BE EMPLOYED AND MAKING LOW WAGES THAN NOT MAKING ANYTHING!!!
Your *taking* an americans option and turning into the illegal pathway for a better life.

1.do you want to pick berries, mow the lawn and be a maid
2.california is fucked because of prop 13 we cant pay for anything now
3.a better life is not a American option . Let me ask you a hypothetical question you are a poor Mexican you cant pay for your family.Do you want 1-5 years to become a legal citizen or do you leave now and have a 50-50 chance of sneaking into the US and get a job to be able to feed and pay for your family .( if you fail in sneaking across you can try again)

Lessnt wrote:

Soheran wrote:The California DREAM Act doesn't have anything to do with immigration policy, if by "immigration policy" we are talking about how many people we let in. The California DREAM Act, like every state-level DREAM Act and like the federal DREAM Act also, is about a very different set of principles: equality under law, republicanism in the classic sense, a government that looks out for the interests of all people, not just those in preferred categories.

I oppose caste systems. Thus, I support this law. Indeed, the main criticism I have of it is that it does not go nearly far enough--though, in fairness, there is only so much further California can go without federal action.

California is about ready to burst if they keep doing things like this.
Your gonna see riots.

Oh yah a couple 60 year old " teabaggers"

The Corparation wrote:So the jobs they take like doing agricultural labor in the hot sun all day was stolen from hard working Americans and would be filled by hard working Americans if they left. Tell that to the Farmers in the georgiawho's crops are rotting after a huge hunk of their work force (illegals) ditched town due to harsher laws. I see no one in America going in to take up the job they left.

Senses a large rise in the price of peach cobbler...

*contacts financial adviser*

*invests in peaches*

*profit*

California Bay Area wrote:

Lessnt wrote:If they were never there in the first place you would see americans doing those jobs.
They have pushed americans out almost completely for decades of course if they suddenly left there would need to be time for readjustment.
They are taking away the chance to get the job.They have been for decades.
IN california we have had them coming over for the last 30+ years.Taking the jobs.
After that long of course the culture would work against americans and there would be no experienced workers.
But IT IS BETTER TO BE EMPLOYED AND MAKING LOW WAGES THAN NOT MAKING ANYTHING!!!
Your *taking* an americans option and turning into the illegal pathway for a better life.

1.do you want to pick berries, mow the lawn and be a maid
2.california is fucked because of prop 13 we cant pay for anything now
3.a better life is not a American option . Let me ask you a hypothetical question you are a poor Mexican you cant pay for your family.Do you want 1-5 years to become a legal citizen or do you leave now and have a 50-50 chance of sneaking into the US and get a job to be able to feed and pay for your family .( if you fail in sneaking across you can try again)

Every maid I have seen and gardeners have not been mexicans.
Picking berries is something most americans are not accustomed to.And I have already stated why and that it would take time to readjust.
2.California is ****ed because we spent a lot of money without paying for it.
3.America is not here to offer every poor person in the world a better life.They want it they do it our way.This is OUR country OUR land OUR laws they need to respect.Most immigrants do.
It does not matter how long the wait is.Long waits are no excuse to break our laws.NO EXCUSE!

Lessnt wrote:

The Corparation wrote:So the jobs they take like doing agricultural labor in the hot sun all day was stolen from hard working Americans and would be filled by hard working Americans if they left. Tell that to the Farmers in the georgiawho's crops are rotting after a huge hunk of their work force (illegals) ditched town due to harsher laws. I see no one in America going in to take up the job they left.

I already explained that if you relied on an illegal workforce of course your gonna be affected by LAW ACTUALLY BEING ENFORCED!

Who cares about the law when it's for a good cause ( or you pay much much less cash )

.

California Bay Area wrote:

Lessnt wrote:California is about ready to burst if they keep doing things like this.
Your gonna see riots.

Oh yah a couple 60 year old " teabaggers"

A ton of guys starting a ton of fires more like.

United Anacreon wrote:If someone grows up in the United States, and speaks English, and actually graduates from a High School with plans of going to college, I think it's great. Hopefully the DREAM Act will help people go through with their goals and be educated.
I'd rather see people be given a chance at succeeding, no matter where they're from. I believe this law won't encourage illegal immigration, but it may get illegal immigrant families to push their kids harder in school, in order to get a pathway to be an American.

You do not understand why they come to illegally immigrate.
They do it to get more.

Lessnt wrote:

California Bay Area wrote:Oh yah a couple 60 year old " teabaggers"

A ton of guys starting a ton of fires more like.

I hear the Army is looking for people to start fires in Afghanistan.

California Bay Area wrote:

Lessnt wrote:
I already explained that if you relied on an illegal workforce of course your gonna be affected by LAW ACTUALLY BEING ENFORCED!

Who cares about the law when it's for a good cause ( or you pay much much less cash )

There is your first problem.

California's free to do what they want, as stupid as it may be.

Yes, immigration should be easier, maybe even free. There's no reason it should be the state's concern whether people are legal or not, ideally, because there should be no laws regarding immigration. But California chooses to rely on income tax to fund their services. Illegal immigrants don't pay income tax. They're receiving the services without paying in; That's the problem.

Drachmar wrote:

Lessnt wrote:A ton of guys starting a ton of fires more like.

I hear the Army is looking for people to start fires in Afghanistan.

Sure they will draft everyone up and send them over with matches.

Lessnt wrote:

California Bay Area wrote:1.do you want to pick berries, mow the lawn and be a maid
2.california is fucked because of prop 13 we cant pay for anything now
3.a better life is not a American option . Let me ask you a hypothetical question you are a poor Mexican you cant pay for your family.Do you want 1-5 years to become a legal citizen or do you
leave now and have a 50-50 chance of sneaking into the US and get a job to be able to feed and pay for your family .( if you fail in sneaking across you can try again)

Every maid I have seen and gardeners have not been mexicans.
Picking berries is something most americans are not accustomed to.And I have already stated why and that it would take time to readjust.
2.California is ****ed because we spent a lot of money without paying for it.
3.America is not here to offer every poor person in the world a better life.They want it they do it our way.This is OUR country OUR land OUR laws they need to respect.Most immigrants do.
It does not matter how long the wait is.Long waits are no excuse to break our laws.NO EXCUSE!

2 again we borrowed money because we had no tax money left to pay for at the time the best education and other things
3 ever heard of the American dream the dream was directed towards immigrates on Ellis island .
3

Robert Magoo wrote:Illegal immigrants don't pay income tax.

Actually, large numbers of them do.

California Bay Area wrote:

Lessnt wrote:Every maid I have seen and gardeners have not been mexicans.
Picking berries is something most americans are not accustomed to.And I have already stated why and that it would take time to readjust.
2.California is ****ed because we spent a lot of money without paying for it.
3.America is not here to offer every poor person in the world a better life.They want it they do it our way.This is OUR country OUR land OUR laws they need to respect.Most immigrants do.
It does not matter how long the wait is.Long waits are no excuse to break our laws.NO EXCUSE!

2 again we borrowed money because we had no tax money left to pay for at the time the best education and other things
3 ever heard of the American dream the dream was directed towards immigrates on Ellis island .
3

As it turns out we get a lot more LEGAL immigrants than ILLEGAL immigrants.

Lessnt wrote:

California Bay Area wrote:
Who cares about the law when it's for a good cause ( or you pay much much less cash )

There is your first problem.

The simple solution to fixing the immigration is to make it Easier( a lot) to become a citizen and crack down on corps that hire illegal immigrates.