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CA Governor Encouraging Illegal Immigration?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Is the giveaway of taxpayer funds an incentive or lure that encourages illegal immigration?

Yes.
21
53%
Maybe or Maybe Not.
6
15%
No.
13
33%
 
Total votes : 40

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You-Gi-Owe
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CA Governor Encouraging Illegal Immigration?

Postby You-Gi-Owe » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:57 am

Well, California Governor Jerry “Moon-Beam” Brown has done it again. Gov. Moon-Beam, signed part two of the controversial, so-called, “Dream Act” on Saturday, Oct. 8th, unceremoniously and without any witnesses from the Press, trying to avoid public outcry and hoping something more attention grabbing would keep the spotlight off of his stupidity.
Why stupidity? Stupid because conservative CA taxpayers have been watching this development like hawks. Stupid because CA has the ability to have direct democracy in amending the State Constitution via the Proposition process and people are already gathering signatures for the effort. Stupid because the Propostion will likely qualify for the summer elections where Obama will not be part of the primaries and Republican voter turn-out will likely be higher than Democrat voter turn-out.
But, IMHO, the most stupid thing is advertising another incentive for illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is an extremely contentious topic and has received much of the blame for collapsing the public hospitals, due to the overuse of emergency rooms by the illegal aliens. Some California residents feel that the State cares more for the children of illegal aliens than it does for the children of the legal taxpayers.

So, is the giveaway of taxpayer funds an incentive or lure that encourages illegal immigration?

http://www.daily49er.com/brown-signs-dream-act-1.2650206
Gov. Jerry Brown signed the second half of the California Dream Act on Saturday, making Assembly Bill 131, legislation that grants undocumented students the opportunity to receive state financial aid, law.
Starting Jan. 1, 2013, non-resident immigrants who have attended a state high school for at least three years and have no criminal record will have the opportunity to apply and receive government financial aid to attend public state universities and community colleges.
Cal State Long Beach President F. King Alexander, who was lobbying for the bill's passage, said it is welcoming news and hopes it will eventually be proposed at the federal level.
Denying educational opportunity to anyone is "bad economics," Alexander said.
The CSULB president explained that it is beneficial for California to invest in higher education. Students who receive degrees because of this law, he said, will eventually become taxpayers who give back to the economy.
"We're fine if they want to send them to Afghanistan, but they want to deny them higher education opportunities as well," Alexander said.
Those who oppose the act believe non-residents will be taking funds offered to current students who live in California, but, according to Brown, only about 1 percent of Cal-Grant funds could be affected.
"I think it's nice — I'm excited," said Steven Singer, junior criminal justice major. "I feel like we are distributing justice, giving it to people who need it from other countries."
Other students on campus are more concerned about the effect the Dream Act will have on their financial situations, class sizes and their ability to pursue their own degree.
"The school is already impacted, it just doesn't seem fair to us, " said Lynae Cassidy, a senior health care administration major. "There will be so many people applying for school and financial aid that there will be less of a chance to get ours covered."
Parents are also concerned about how the Dream Act affects their children's futures.
"I disagree with illegal immigrants taking advantage of our country's resources without going through with the whole process," said Kim Dilallo, parent of a prospective student. "It may even indirectly affect where my child chooses to go. What if she can't get into her classes because of how many more students will be there?"

An aside to my main topic, the CSULB president is a little nuts, because these students can’t legally work in the U.S. or join the military, so they can’t “give back to the community.
“Man, I'm so hip I won't even eat a square meal!”
"We've always been at war with Eastasia." 1984, George Orwell
Tyrion: "Those are brave men knocking at our door. Let's go kill them!"
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Glen-Rhodes
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Postby Glen-Rhodes » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:05 am

Is there a way to answer the poll without playing into the conservative rhetoric? Yes, giving student aid to undocumented immigrant students is an incentive to immigrate to the United States. This is a good thing.

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The Republic of Lanos
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Postby The Republic of Lanos » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:06 am

Maybe the idea should be extended to Gov. Brown's veto allowing warrantless cell phone searches.

I may be in favor of in-state tuitition to immigrants, but this? Pushing it...

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Lessnt
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Postby Lessnt » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:08 am

Glen-Rhodes wrote:Is there a way to answer the poll without playing into the conservative rhetoric? Yes, giving student aid to undocumented immigrant students is an incentive to immigrate to the United States. This is a good thing.

incorrect.
California has a massive debt it needs to pay off.
While social programs and education and other public utilities are getting cuts to help pay it off this is the last thing we should be spending money on.

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Shadowlandistan
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Postby Shadowlandistan » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:08 am

Giving students whose parents brought them to this country (legally or not) a chance to become educated is the humane thing to do. Whether or not it is encouraging illegal immigration is a non starter. Would you rather people be roaming the streets and becoming involved in street crime? Or are you one of those people who want to ignore the fact that we have millions of people already in this country illegally and hope they go away?
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Lessnt
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Postby Lessnt » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:14 am

Shadowlandistan wrote:Giving students whose parents brought them to this country (legally or not) a chance to become educated is the humane thing to do. Whether or not it is encouraging illegal immigration is a non starter. Would you rather people be roaming the streets and becoming involved in street crime? Or are you one of those people who want to ignore the fact that we have millions of people already in this country illegally and hope they go away?

You are not thinking this through.You do not understand California.
Illegal immigrants CAN get a colledge education without it.
They simply pay out of state tuition.
WHich is something other americans pay for.
All this did was making education CHEAPER.
THey were not barred from getting it.
WE also have poor people who are looking to get an education too.
We have people out of state who pay their full amount to get in.
It is unfair for americans.
It is unfair for taxpayers and californias who are having programs that help the mentally ill and the poor as well as standard education getting funding cuts all in the name of cutting our debt down.(many of our public schools are in terrible shape)

Seems completely political.
And every californian with a brain understands this was ****ed up.

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You-Gi-Owe
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Postby You-Gi-Owe » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:14 am

Shadowlandistan wrote:Giving students whose parents brought them to this country (legally or not) a chance to become educated is the humane thing to do. Whether or not it is encouraging illegal immigration is a non starter. Would you rather people be roaming the streets and becoming involved in street crime? Or are you one of those people who want to ignore the fact that we have millions of people already in this country illegally and hope they go away?

You know, if these kids couldn't get a taxpayer funded education, you'd call their parents child-abusers.
“Man, I'm so hip I won't even eat a square meal!”
"We've always been at war with Eastasia." 1984, George Orwell
Tyrion: "Those are brave men knocking at our door. Let's go kill them!"
“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” ~ James Madison quotes

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Shadowlandistan
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Postby Shadowlandistan » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:17 am

Lessnt wrote:
Shadowlandistan wrote:Giving students whose parents brought them to this country (legally or not) a chance to become educated is the humane thing to do. Whether or not it is encouraging illegal immigration is a non starter. Would you rather people be roaming the streets and becoming involved in street crime? Or are you one of those people who want to ignore the fact that we have millions of people already in this country illegally and hope they go away?

You are not thinking this through.You do not understand California.
Illegal immigrants CAN get a colledge education without it.
They simply pay out of state tuition.
WHich is something other americans pay for.
All this did was making education CHEAPER.
THey were not barred from getting it.
WE also have poor people who are looking to get an education too.
We have people out of state who pay their full amount to get in.
It is unfair for americans.
It is unfair for taxpayers and californias who are having programs that help the mentally ill and the poor as well as standard education getting funding cuts all in the name of cutting our debt down.(many of our public schools are in terrible shape)

Seems completely political.
And every californian with a brain understands this was ****ed up.


I'm for making education more accessible and cheaper for EVERYONE regardless of their legal status. I applaud the Governers signing.

You-Gi-Owe wrote:
Shadowlandistan wrote:Giving students whose parents brought them to this country (legally or not) a chance to become educated is the humane thing to do. Whether or not it is encouraging illegal immigration is a non starter. Would you rather people be roaming the streets and becoming involved in street crime? Or are you one of those people who want to ignore the fact that we have millions of people already in this country illegally and hope they go away?

You know, if these kids couldn't get a taxpayer funded education, you'd call their parents child-abusers.


Hahah, I don't even know what that's supposed to mean. I would say the system is eliminating the chance of an education for it's citizens, legal or not.
Economic Left/Right: -6.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.54

You are an anarcho-collectivistic.

Cosmopolitan 43%- Nationalistic
Secular 104% -Fundamentalist
Visionary 72%- Reactionary
Anarchistic 76%- Authoritarian
Communistic 34%- Capitalistic
Pacifist 47%- Militaristic
Ecological 16%- Anthropocentric

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Glen-Rhodes
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Postby Glen-Rhodes » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:23 am

Lessnt wrote:
Glen-Rhodes wrote:Is there a way to answer the poll without playing into the conservative rhetoric? Yes, giving student aid to undocumented immigrant students is an incentive to immigrate to the United States. This is a good thing.

incorrect.
California has a massive debt it needs to pay off.
While social programs and education and other public utilities are getting cuts to help pay it off this is the last thing we should be spending money on.

Incentivizing immigration is a good thing, in my opinion. Immigration isn't causing an infrastructure problem. Infrastructure should be updated and expanded to deal with influxes in immigration. If schools become crowded because more people are able to attend them, then build more schools. If hospitals are buckling under the pressure of giving immigrants free emergency healthcare, then find a way to get immigrants to pay for their healthcare. In my opinion, blaming immigration is totally backwards. How would California be able to handle an influx of legal intrastate migration of actual citizens, if it can't even accommodate immigrants from Mexico?

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JuNii
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Postby JuNii » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:29 am

man, so nice to see that california has money to spend that way... btw, hows those state taxes guys?
on the other hand... I have another set of fingers.

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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:29 am

we've already had a thread on this.

kids who have graduated from a california highschool should get instate tuition.
whatever

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Arkinesia
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Postby Arkinesia » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:30 am

Not really. You can't just bring in an 18-year-old kid and send him straight to college.
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You-Gi-Owe
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Postby You-Gi-Owe » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:32 am

Glen-Rhodes wrote:Incentivizing illegal immigration is a good thing, in my opinion. Illegal Immigration isn't causing an infrastructure problem. Infrastructure should be updated and expanded to deal with influxes in illegal immigration. If schools become crowded because more people are able to attend them, then build more schools. If hospitals are buckling under the pressure of giving illegal immigrants free emergency healthcare, then find a way to get illegal immigrants to pay for their healthcare. In my opinion, blaming illegal immigration is totally backwards. How would California be able to handle an influx of legal intrastate migration of actual citizens, if it can't even accommodate illegal immigrants from Mexico?

My bold and underlined fixes of your ommissions. Read it now and look at how silly the unfixed post version looks.
“Man, I'm so hip I won't even eat a square meal!”
"We've always been at war with Eastasia." 1984, George Orwell
Tyrion: "Those are brave men knocking at our door. Let's go kill them!"
“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” ~ James Madison quotes

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:34 am

You-Gi-Owe wrote:
Glen-Rhodes wrote:Incentivizing illegal immigration is a good thing, in my opinion. Illegal Immigration isn't causing an infrastructure problem. Infrastructure should be updated and expanded to deal with influxes in illegal immigration. If schools become crowded because more people are able to attend them, then build more schools. If hospitals are buckling under the pressure of giving illegal immigrants free emergency healthcare, then find a way to get illegal immigrants to pay for their healthcare. In my opinion, blaming illegal immigration is totally backwards. How would California be able to handle an influx of legal intrastate migration of actual citizens, if it can't even accommodate illegal immigrants from Mexico?

My bold and underlined fixes of your ommissions. Read it now and look at how silly the unfixed post version looks.


Civil disobedience, George W. Moto.

Just because something is illegal doesn't automatically make it a bad thing.
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Miniature Demons
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Postby Miniature Demons » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:35 am

JuNii wrote:man, so nice to see that california has money to spend that way... btw, hows those state taxes guys?

Lower then Herman Caine wants to make all state taxes with his 9-9-9, that is how they are.

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Glen-Rhodes
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Postby Glen-Rhodes » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:38 am

You-Gi-Owe wrote:My bold and underlined fixes of your ommissions. Read it now and look at how silly the unfixed post version looks.

The idea of controlled borders is outmoded and irrelevant. You won't find me thinking that 'illegal immigration' is a bad thing.

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You-Gi-Owe
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Postby You-Gi-Owe » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:48 am

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
You-Gi-Owe wrote:My bold and underlined fixes of your ommissions. Read it now and look at how silly the unfixed post version looks.

The idea of controlled borders is outmoded and irrelevant. You won't find me thinking that 'illegal immigration' is a bad thing.

Try walking across the border into China, Iran or North Korea and see how they treat you. Deportation might be humane by comparison.
“Man, I'm so hip I won't even eat a square meal!”
"We've always been at war with Eastasia." 1984, George Orwell
Tyrion: "Those are brave men knocking at our door. Let's go kill them!"
“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” ~ James Madison quotes

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:50 am

You-Gi-Owe wrote:
Glen-Rhodes wrote:The idea of controlled borders is outmoded and irrelevant. You won't find me thinking that 'illegal immigration' is a bad thing.

Try walking across the border into China, Iran or North Korea and see how they treat you. Deportation might be humane by comparison.


Were you trying to say that them doing it is somehow related to deportation not being outmoded or outdated?

Is our border security goal aiming at the standards of that of China, Iran, or North Korea? If that's the trend, then your comparison/mention just makes me agree with Glen-Rhodes more.
Last edited by The Rich Port on Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS
CONSERVATISM IS FEAR AND STAGNATION AS IDEOLOGY. ONLY MARCH FORWARD.

Pronouns: She/Her
The Alt-Right Playbook
Alt-right/racist terminology
LOVEWHOYOUARE~

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Voerdeland
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Postby Voerdeland » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:52 am

You-Gi-Owe wrote:
Glen-Rhodes wrote:The idea of controlled borders is outmoded and irrelevant. You won't find me thinking that 'illegal immigration' is a bad thing.

Try walking across the border into China, Iran or North Korea and see how they treat you. Deportation might be humane by comparison.

And your point is?

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Unchecked Expansion
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Postby Unchecked Expansion » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:54 am

You-Gi-Owe wrote:
Glen-Rhodes wrote:The idea of controlled borders is outmoded and irrelevant. You won't find me thinking that 'illegal immigration' is a bad thing.

Try walking across the border into China, Iran or North Korea and see how they treat you. Deportation might be humane by comparison.

So, America should be more like a repressive dictatorship, less like a free republic?

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Lessnt
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Postby Lessnt » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:54 am

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
Lessnt wrote:incorrect.
California has a massive debt it needs to pay off.
While social programs and education and other public utilities are getting cuts to help pay it off this is the last thing we should be spending money on.

Incentivizing immigration is a good thing, in my opinion. Immigration isn't causing an infrastructure problem. Infrastructure should be updated and expanded to deal with influxes in immigration. If schools become crowded because more people are able to attend them, then build more schools. If hospitals are buckling under the pressure of giving immigrants free emergency healthcare, then find a way to get immigrants to pay for their healthcare. In my opinion, blaming immigration is totally backwards. How would California be able to handle an influx of legal intrastate migration of actual citizens, if it can't even accommodate immigrants from Mexico?

You people have no understanding of california so I would appreciate it if you would actually learn something.
AS being a resident in California you are all sounding very ignorant as to california's situation.

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Glen-Rhodes
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Postby Glen-Rhodes » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:04 am

I don't need to live in China to know that there's a serious demographic crisis going on.

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You-Gi-Owe
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Postby You-Gi-Owe » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:06 am

Voerdeland wrote:
You-Gi-Owe wrote:Try walking across the border into China, Iran or North Korea and see how they treat you. Deportation might be humane by comparison.

And your point is?

That the CA government is in the process of suicide and collapsing government services that are supposed to be in place for it's legal residents.
“Man, I'm so hip I won't even eat a square meal!”
"We've always been at war with Eastasia." 1984, George Orwell
Tyrion: "Those are brave men knocking at our door. Let's go kill them!"
“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” ~ James Madison quotes

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Voerdeland
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Postby Voerdeland » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:07 am

Lessnt wrote:snip

Not agreeing with you = being ignorant and "not understanding California". Congratulations!
Last edited by Voerdeland on Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:07 am

Glen-Rhodes wrote:I don't need to live in China to know that there's a serious demographic crisis going on.


Which one?

Chinese white-washing (um... Yellow... I think... I dunno, nvm) homogenous ethnicity?

Male/Female disproportion?
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS
CONSERVATISM IS FEAR AND STAGNATION AS IDEOLOGY. ONLY MARCH FORWARD.

Pronouns: She/Her
The Alt-Right Playbook
Alt-right/racist terminology
LOVEWHOYOUARE~

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