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Should Marijuana be Legal?

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Wienholdland
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Postby Wienholdland » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:13 pm

Keronians wrote:
Wienholdland wrote:Individuals are responsible for their own actions. Quite easy to understand, really.


Indeed it is.

Pretty irrelevant to the post, though.
No it isn't. You're trying to blame drugs for the actions of individuals. I'm pointing out to you that the individual is the only one responsible.

Drugs are not alive. Drugs do not have manual dexterity.

Lack of sleep does not break the alarm clock.

It is not hard to understand.

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Sibirsky
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Postby Sibirsky » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:14 pm

Keronians wrote:
Sibirsky wrote:Name something that does not cause harm, or has potential to cause harm.


I said net harm, not "no harm at all".

Whatever. Provide a source that recreational drug use causes "net harm."
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Keronians
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Postby Keronians » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:14 pm

Biop wrote:
Keronians wrote:


Source for "drugs are addictive"? Are you serious?

Ya i think he is and Wikipeida isnt a viable source


Valid, you mean.

And, yes it is. You choose not to accept it is your own problem, not mine.
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Keronians
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Postby Keronians » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:15 pm

Wienholdland wrote:
Keronians wrote:
Indeed it is.

Pretty irrelevant to the post, though.
No it isn't. You're trying to blame drugs for the actions of individuals. I'm pointing out to you that the individual is the only one responsible.

Drugs are not alive. Drugs do not have manual dexterity.

Lack of sleep does not break the alarm clock.

It is not hard to understand.


Alcohol clouds one's judgement. It makes a person do something they wouldn't otherwise do. Thus, the origin of the crime they commit, can be traced back to the consumption of the drug.

Their own fault for consuming it, but still the drug causing harm.
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It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it; consequently, the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning.
George Orwell
· Private property
· Free foreign trade
· Exchange of goods and services
· Free formation of prices

· Market regulation
· Social security
· Universal healthcare
· Unemployment insurance

This is a capitalist model.

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Wienholdland
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Postby Wienholdland » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:16 pm

Keronians wrote:
Wienholdland wrote:No it isn't. You're trying to blame drugs for the actions of individuals. I'm pointing out to you that the individual is the only one responsible.

Drugs are not alive. Drugs do not have manual dexterity.

Lack of sleep does not break the alarm clock.

It is not hard to understand.


Alcohol clouds one's judgement. It makes a person do something they wouldn't otherwise do. Thus, the origin of the crime they commit, can be traced back to the consumption of the drug.

Their own fault for consuming it, but still the drug causing harm.
No it doesn't make a person do anything.

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GeneralHaNor
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Postby GeneralHaNor » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:16 pm

Fionnuala_Saoirse wrote:
Sibirsky wrote:What danger is there?


Triggering mental illness in genetically vulnerable individuals


Source
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Sibirsky
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Postby Sibirsky » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:17 pm

Keronians wrote:
Wienholdland wrote:No it isn't. You're trying to blame drugs for the actions of individuals. I'm pointing out to you that the individual is the only one responsible.

Drugs are not alive. Drugs do not have manual dexterity.

Lack of sleep does not break the alarm clock.

It is not hard to understand.


Alcohol clouds one's judgement. It makes a person do something they wouldn't otherwise do. Thus, the origin of the crime they commit, can be traced back to the consumption of the drug.

Their own fault for consuming it, but still the drug causing harm.

No, it isn't. Plenty of people can drink plenty of alcohol and not commit any crime at all.
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Soviet Haaregrad
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Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:18 pm

Fionnuala_Saoirse wrote:
Sibirsky wrote:What danger is there?


Triggering mental illness in genetically vulnerable individuals


Do you have a source proving this isn't individuals who are predisposed to mental illness aren't also predisposed to using pot to self-medicate?
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Vitius
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Postby Vitius » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:20 pm

I used to be extremely opposed to the issue, but I've managed to get around some of my opposition.

I believe that marijuana should only be smoked in the privacy of a home or in a designated establishment, such as a marijuana bar/cafe. I'm completely fine if THC pills (I don't know about the evolution of said pills), brownies, etc. or other means of consumption besides smoking/vapor are used in public.

I'm not aware if marijuana can be used in moderation (at one dose, not daily moderation) like alcohol can, but if one hit causes a driving hazard, I believe that it should be illegal to drive while high.

Again, my marijuana knowledge isn't to the full capability it can be, so forgive me if I acted without forsight on issues such as driving or public consumption.
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Arkiasis
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Postby Arkiasis » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:22 pm

Nicotine/tobacco is legal and it can cause cancer and death, alcohol is legal and it can cause massive intoxication and heart disease. There's no reason for marijuana to be illegal.
Last edited by Arkiasis on Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Soviet Haaregrad
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Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:23 pm

Vitius wrote:I used to be extremely opposed to the issue, but I've managed to get around some of my opposition.

I believe that marijuana should only be smoked in the privacy of a home or in a designated establishment, such as a marijuana bar/cafe. I'm completely fine if THC pills (I don't know about the evolution of said pills), brownies, etc. or other means of consumption besides smoking/vapor are used in public.

I'm not aware if marijuana can be used in moderation (at one dose, not daily moderation) like alcohol can, but if one hit causes a driving hazard, I believe that it should be illegal to drive while high.

Again, my marijuana knowledge isn't to the full capability it can be, so forgive me if I acted without forsight on issues such as driving or public consumption.


One hit wouldn't impair driving, and even a highly intoxicated individual is likely to have less impact on their performance than a drunk driver would.
I reserve the right to ignore wank, furries/scalies, elves, magic, other fantasy vermin & absurd populations. Haters gonna hate.
RP Population: 1760//76 million//1920 104 million//1960 209 million//1992 238 million
81% Economic Leftist, 56% Anarchist, 79% Anti-Militarist, 89% Socio-Cultural Liberal, 73% Civil Libertarian
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Imperial Wizard of the NS Knights of Ordo Logica
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Cameroi
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Postby Cameroi » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:23 pm

what law "should" be based on preventing is thoughtlessness and aggressiveness.
while many people do behave inappropriately, sometimes to the extent of becoming a danger to themselves and others, under the influence of mind altering substances,
banning them is not a way of dealing with the issue, but of avoiding it.
there are at least two very good reasons why banning the possession of anything is a very bad idea.
to list them succinctly, they are the creation of opportunities for political harassment, and the creation of markets for organized crime.

marijuana specifically is less addictive then tobacco and less life and behavior threatening the alcohol.
it only becomes a "gateway drug" do to its illegality. precisely as alcohol did and was when it was prohibited.

this is NOT an endorsement of chemical substitutes for imagination, which, ultimately, result in its atrophication.
nor would they posses the attraction they do, were not imagination culturally repressed.
Last edited by Cameroi on Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Keronians
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Postby Keronians » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:28 pm

Sibirsky wrote:
Keronians wrote:
Alcohol clouds one's judgement. It makes a person do something they wouldn't otherwise do. Thus, the origin of the crime they commit, can be traced back to the consumption of the drug.

Their own fault for consuming it, but still the drug causing harm.

No, it isn't. Plenty of people can drink plenty of alcohol and not commit any crime at all.


And when they do, the drug is partly at fault.
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It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it; consequently, the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning.
George Orwell
· Private property
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Wienholdland
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Postby Wienholdland » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:29 pm

Keronians wrote:
Sibirsky wrote:No, it isn't. Plenty of people can drink plenty of alcohol and not commit any crime at all.


And when they do, the drug is partly at fault.
Nope.

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Vitius
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Postby Vitius » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:29 pm

Soviet Haaregrad wrote:
Vitius wrote:I used to be extremely opposed to the issue, but I've managed to get around some of my opposition.

I believe that marijuana should only be smoked in the privacy of a home or in a designated establishment, such as a marijuana bar/cafe. I'm completely fine if THC pills (I don't know about the evolution of said pills), brownies, etc. or other means of consumption besides smoking/vapor are used in public.

I'm not aware if marijuana can be used in moderation (at one dose, not daily moderation) like alcohol can, but if one hit causes a driving hazard, I believe that it should be illegal to drive while high.

Again, my marijuana knowledge isn't to the full capability it can be, so forgive me if I acted without forsight on issues such as driving or public consumption.


One hit wouldn't impair driving, and even a highly intoxicated individual is likely to have less impact on their performance than a drunk driver would.

Ah, then forgivie me.

Perhaps they would have less impact on performance than a drunk driver would, but would they still be dangerous (actual question)?

It's kind of like saying 'well, stabbing someone in the leg would be less dangerous than shooting them, so you're being a hypocrite if you support guns'. Not trying to be cocky or anything, but it doesn't matter if it's less dangerous than drunk driving if it still causes harm.
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Keronians
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Postby Keronians » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:31 pm

Wienholdland wrote:
Keronians wrote:
And when they do, the drug is partly at fault.
Nope.


:palm:

What was their reason for committing the crime? Was it perhaps a drug alterating their mental state?
Proud Indian. Spanish citizen. European federalist.
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It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it; consequently, the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning.
George Orwell
· Private property
· Free foreign trade
· Exchange of goods and services
· Free formation of prices

· Market regulation
· Social security
· Universal healthcare
· Unemployment insurance

This is a capitalist model.

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Vitius
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Postby Vitius » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:34 pm

Keronians wrote:
Wienholdland wrote:Nope.


:palm:

What was their reason for committing the crime? Was it perhaps a drug alterating their mental state?

I'm not exactly for 'full' marijauna legalization (explained in my first post), but if a person committed a crime while under the influence of a drug, they would probably commit a crime while not under the influence of any drug.
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Four-sided Triangles
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Postby Four-sided Triangles » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:35 pm

Keronians wrote:And when they do, the drug is partly at fault.


So if you had the resources, everyone should be denied the privilege because there's some stupid and irresponsible people?
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Soviet Haaregrad
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Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:35 pm

Vitius wrote:
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:
One hit wouldn't impair driving, and even a highly intoxicated individual is likely to have less impact on their performance than a drunk driver would.

Ah, then forgivie me.

Perhaps they would have less impact on performance than a drunk driver would, but would they still be dangerous (actual question)?

It's kind of like saying 'well, stabbing someone in the leg would be less dangerous than shooting them, so you're being a hypocrite if you support guns'. Not trying to be cocky or anything, but it doesn't matter if it's less dangerous than drunk driving if it still causes harm.


They'd be impaired, no question. One major difference is pot makes people paranoid and less confident, alcohol tends to make one over-confident. Stoned drivers tend to drive slowly and cautiously, from my observations (I don't drive stoned anymore, but I have, friends and siblings have or do as well so I've seen it...). It's not a good idea, but it's hard to compare directly to drunk driving.
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Sibirsky
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Postby Sibirsky » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:02 pm

Keronians wrote:
Wienholdland wrote:Nope.


:palm:

What was their reason for committing the crime? Was it perhaps a drug alterating their mental state?

:palm:
No. Perhaps it was another motive, depending on what the crime was.
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Postby Aerowick » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:21 pm

Hippostania wrote:Absolutely not! Marijuana is a dangerous drug that should never be legalized. Instead, we should be talking about outlawing alcohol and tobacco!

My good sir, if you could provide a list of pros and cons, nay... Simply a single con involving marijuana, I would be much obliged. I would love to have a discussion concerning your naive and mislead views. If you can show me any proof whatsoever that marijuana is a dangerous drug I will most certainly entertain your biased and purely hypocritical ways. However I must agree on the alcohol, but not so much the tobacco. Tobacco, much like marijuana, is simply a plant. Unfortunately a whole load of deadly chemicals has been added to it to make cigarettes. I would also like to know if you have ever tried marijuana, and if so what was your experience.

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Postby New England and The Maritimes » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:29 pm

Sibirsky wrote:
Keronians wrote:
:palm:

What was their reason for committing the crime? Was it perhaps a drug alterating their mental state?

:palm:
No. Perhaps it was another motive, depending on what the crime was.


In the meantime, 60% of all murders in the US and the majority of all fatal vehicular accidents involve a perpetrator who is heavily intoxicated. The vast majority of suicides as well.
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Soviet Haaregrad
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Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:34 pm

Aerowick wrote:
Hippostania wrote:Absolutely not! Marijuana is a dangerous drug that should never be legalized. Instead, we should be talking about outlawing alcohol and tobacco!

My good sir, if you could provide a list of pros and cons, nay... Simply a single con involving marijuana, I would be much obliged. I would love to have a discussion concerning your naive and mislead views. If you can show me any proof whatsoever that marijuana is a dangerous drug I will most certainly entertain your biased and purely hypocritical ways. However I must agree on the alcohol, but not so much the tobacco. Tobacco, much like marijuana, is simply a plant. Unfortunately a whole load of deadly chemicals has been added to it to make cigarettes. I would also like to know if you have ever tried marijuana, and if so what was your experience.


Some people's opinions are based on rational observations, others base theirs on imaginative thinking. The reality-based community ought not to waste it's time refuting delusions.
I reserve the right to ignore wank, furries/scalies, elves, magic, other fantasy vermin & absurd populations. Haters gonna hate.
RP Population: 1760//76 million//1920 104 million//1960 209 million//1992 238 million
81% Economic Leftist, 56% Anarchist, 79% Anti-Militarist, 89% Socio-Cultural Liberal, 73% Civil Libertarian
NSG Sodomy Club, CSO
Imperial Wizard of the NS Knights of Ordo Logica
Privatization of collectively owned property is theft.
The Confederacy of Independent Socialist Republics
FACTBOOK
ART


Jesus was black, Ronald Reagan was the devil and the government is lying about 9/11.

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New England and The Maritimes
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Postby New England and The Maritimes » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:36 pm

Soviet Haaregrad wrote:
Aerowick wrote:My good sir, if you could provide a list of pros and cons, nay... Simply a single con involving marijuana, I would be much obliged. I would love to have a discussion concerning your naive and mislead views. If you can show me any proof whatsoever that marijuana is a dangerous drug I will most certainly entertain your biased and purely hypocritical ways. However I must agree on the alcohol, but not so much the tobacco. Tobacco, much like marijuana, is simply a plant. Unfortunately a whole load of deadly chemicals has been added to it to make cigarettes. I would also like to know if you have ever tried marijuana, and if so what was your experience.


Some people's opinions are based on rational observations, others base theirs on imaginative thinking. The reality-based community ought not to waste it's time refuting delusions.


Sigging this. It's the truth if anything ever was.
All aboard the Love Train. Choo Choo, honeybears. I am Ininiwiyaw Rocopurr:Get in my bed, you perfect human being.
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Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Some people's opinions are based on rational observations, others base theirs on imaginative thinking. The reality-based community ought not to waste it's time refuting delusions.

Also, Bonobos
Formerly Brandenburg-Altmark Me.

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Sibirsky
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Postby Sibirsky » Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:02 pm

New England and The Maritimes wrote:
Sibirsky wrote: :palm:
No. Perhaps it was another motive, depending on what the crime was.


In the meantime, 60% of all murders in the US and the majority of all fatal vehicular accidents involve a perpetrator who is heavily intoxicated. The vast majority of suicides as well.

Alcohol and drugs also cause pregnancies, so it evens out.
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