NationStates

Euronion wrote:

-St George wrote:Thank you for proving homosexuals do not have the same rights as heterosexuals.

they most certainly do, if a gay man married a women, he would be entitled to the same tax benefits, because he is married. Again heterosexuals can't marry their own sex either.

which is a arbitrary separation, no different than saying you can only marry those of the same race, or people whose name rhymes with yours.
I f the law said you could not marry someone with a different last name would you say that's fine because it still treats everyone equally?

Euronion wrote:

-St George wrote:Thank you for proving homosexuals do not have the same rights as heterosexuals.

they most certainly do, if a gay man married a women, he would be entitled to the same tax benefits, because he is married. Again heterosexuals can't marry their own sex either.

If the legally married Mr and Mrs Van Dyke immigrate to the USA from the Netherlands, is their marriage considered valid by the USA ?
If the legally married Mr and Mr Van Dyke immigrate to the USA from the Netherlands, is their marriage considered valid by the USA ?

Sociobiology wrote:

Euronion wrote:
they do, as I mentioned, they can't marry their own sex, and neither can heterosexuals, equal in that category, feelings do not come into the matter, Civil Unions are legal in several states and in NY gay marraige is legal as well as Missouri, and if you want a gay friendly enviroment, Sweden and Norway are the places to go, If I loved a woman that much I would go to another country to be happy, but some are just too lazy to do so

actually what they are not allowed to do is marry the sex of their preference, why don't we change the law so that you can only marry the same sex, that will make gay people happy and you won't have anything to complain about because you have exactly the same rights.
you do reaize at one time it was illegal to marry a different race, was that OK too?

it is ok to marry someone of a different race beacuse it has been made so, I do support Civil Unions but not marraiges, I don't see why there is a while either you are married or not, I support civil unions because then it is not against my religion and the religion of approximately 1.8 billion people and gay people can stop complaining. However, it hasn't stopped there, in Missouri Gay Marraige is legal and gays are still trying to cram their beliefs down 5 year olds' throats with no opt-out program for parents that don't agree with it, and in California especially, some of the poorer people can not afford private school or homeschooling so they rely on the public education system, it bottles down to either betray your religion, or your child's education, and no family should have to make that choice

Sociobiology wrote:

Euronion wrote:
they most certainly do, if a gay man married a women, he would be entitled to the same tax benefits, because he is married. Again heterosexuals can't marry their own sex either.

which is a arbitrary separation, no different than saying you can only marry those of the same race, or people whose name rhymes with yours.
I f the law said you could not marry someone with a different last name would you say that's fine because it still treats everyone equally?

I wouldn't say it is right, but it is equal

The Alma Mater wrote:

Euronion wrote:
they most certainly do, if a gay man married a women, he would be entitled to the same tax benefits, because he is married. Again heterosexuals can't marry their own sex either.

If the legally married Mr and Mrs Van Dyke immigrate to the USA from the Netherlands, is their marriage is considered valid by the USA ?
If the legally married Mr and Mr Van Dyke immigrate to the USA from the Netherlands, is their marriage is considered valid by the USA ?

that is a question for the office of foreign affairs to deicde

Euronion wrote:

-St George wrote:Thank you for proving homosexuals do not have the same rights as heterosexuals.

they most certainly do, if a gay man married a women, he would be entitled to the same tax benefits, because he is married. Again heterosexuals can't marry their own sex either.

Imagine, Euronion, if the law changed. Imagine if heterosexual marriages were banned, and homosexual marriages were the only accepted form of marriage. Would you be content to marry another man, while all the time loving another woman? Or would you argue that someone has taken your rights away?

Euronion wrote:

Sociobiology wrote: which is a arbitrary separation, no different than saying you can only marry those of the same race, or people whose name rhymes with yours.
I f the law said you could not marry someone with a different last name would you say that's fine because it still treats everyone equally?

I wouldn't say it is right, but it is equal

Would you oppose making it right, provided it stays equal ?

The Warrior Hearted wrote:

Euronion wrote:
you HAVE equal rights, you HAVE the same rights as the average American citizen. WE are tired of your christainphobe ignorant bigotry, flee to Canada or Norway or Sweden where you will be happy and where you can thrust your views upon other people there and no one will care. However, we in America are tired of all the same bull crap, we have more important things to do like fight wars, fix unemployment and fix our economy.

actually, gays dont have equal rights. They cant marry, they are socially viewed as "wrong", and dont even get me started on adoption.

In Spain, gays do have equal rights. They can marry and have the right to adopt children.

Which is why I will never get the reasoning behind gay parades in Spain.

Euronion wrote:

The Alma Mater wrote:
If the legally married Mr and Mrs Van Dyke immigrate to the USA from the Netherlands, is their marriage is considered valid by the USA ?
If the legally married Mr and Mr Van Dyke immigrate to the USA from the Netherlands, is their marriage is considered valid by the USA ?

that is a question for the office of foreign affairs to deicde

The answer is yes for the first, no for the second.
Explain equality.

Johz wrote:

Euronion wrote:
they most certainly do, if a gay man married a women, he would be entitled to the same tax benefits, because he is married. Again heterosexuals can't marry their own sex either.

Imagine, Euronion, if the law changed. Imagine if heterosexual marriages were banned, and homosexual marriages were the only accepted form of marriage. Would you be content to marry another man, while all the time loving another woman? Or would you argue that someone has taken your rights away?

1. that scenario is extremely unlikely because not only would it go against the relgion of Muslims, Jews, and Christains all over the world and we rely on marraige for mostly reporduction and the stable raising of a child with both contributors to the gene pool present.
2. I would not be happy, I would leave the United States, but I would have equal rights as the next person to marry

Euronion wrote:

The Yoke of Oppression wrote:
If you want to live in a society where homosexuals remain in hiding, move to Iran.

If you want to live in a society where being gay is openly celebrated and seen as wonderful move to Sweden

NO! YOU MOVE TO IRAN! America must remain the same forever, and anybody who thinks that we should change the laws should just LEAVE and go to a country that already reflects their values! Representative government is pointless! Change is scary! NO!

EDIT: I want my binky...

Euronion wrote:

The Yoke of Oppression wrote:
If you want to live in a society where homosexuals remain in hiding, move to Iran.

If you want to live in a society where being gay is openly celebrated and seen as wonderful move to Sweden

I prefer Vermont.

They have a more gun friendly atmosphere, and just as gay celebrating.

The Alma Mater wrote:

Euronion wrote:
I wouldn't say it is right, but it is equal

Would you oppose making it right, provided it stays equal ?

no I wouldn't oppose making it right, but the post I was orginally responding to was saying that gays don't have equal rights,which they do, they just don't have what they wish

The Warrior Hearted wrote:

Euronion wrote:
you HAVE equal rights, you HAVE the same rights as the average American citizen. WE are tired of your christainphobe ignorant bigotry, flee to Canada or Norway or Sweden where you will be happy and where you can thrust your views upon other people there and no one will care. However, we in America are tired of all the same bull crap, we have more important things to do like fight wars, fix unemployment and fix our economy.

actually, gays dont have equal rights. They cant marry, they are socially viewed as "wrong",...

You can't forcibly change people's attitudes or morality. If you do that you're practically headed for thought control. Political Correctness, as it's being practiced in some circles, falls just short of thought control by penalizing people for certain attitudes, feelings, and 'incorrect' thinking.

They can live their lives and have the relationships they want, but they can't have the exact reaction and outcome by forcing people to give it to them.

Euronion wrote:

Johz wrote:Imagine, Euronion, if the law changed. Imagine if heterosexual marriages were banned, and homosexual marriages were the only accepted form of marriage. Would you be content to marry another man, while all the time loving another woman? Or would you argue that someone has taken your rights away?

1. that scenario is extremely unlikely because not only would it go against the relgion of Muslims, Jews, and Christains all over the world

Which is only half of the worlds population Currently that is.
But true, it is unlikely. Still, thought experiments often are

Euronion wrote:

Johz wrote:Imagine, Euronion, if the law changed. Imagine if heterosexual marriages were banned, and homosexual marriages were the only accepted form of marriage. Would you be content to marry another man, while all the time loving another woman? Or would you argue that someone has taken your rights away?

1. that scenario is extremely unlikely because not only would it go against the relgion of Muslims, Jews, and Christains all over the world and we rely on marraige for mostly reporduction and the stable raising of a child with both contributors to the gene pool present.
2. I would not be happy, I would leave the United States, but I would have equal rights as the next person to marry

Marriage is not necessary for reproduction or raising a child.

Though I do agree that it is extremely unlikely.

The Yoke of Oppression wrote:

Euronion wrote:
If you want to live in a society where being gay is openly celebrated and seen as wonderful move to Sweden

NO! YOU MOVE TO IRAN! America must remain the same forever, and anybody who thinks that we should change the laws should just LEAVE and go to a country that already reflects their values! Representative government is pointless! Change is scary! NO!

not really

Euronion wrote:

The Alma Mater wrote:
Would you oppose making it right, provided it stays equal ?

no I wouldn't oppose making it right, but the post I was orginally responding to was saying that gays don't have equal rights,which they do, they just don't have what they wish

True. But I take it that, even though you do not think gays currently have less rights than straights, you do not oppose them asking for more rights - as long as the rights they want will also be granted to straight people ?

The Alma Mater wrote:

Euronion wrote:
1. that scenario is extremely unlikely because not only would it go against the relgion of Muslims, Jews, and Christains all over the world

Which is only half of the worlds population Currently that is.
But true, it is unlikely. Still, thought experiments often are

Well, marriage is also a custom in Hinduism as well, though historically it has been mainly polygamous.

So add in another billion.

Immaturity and FOXnews.

Keronians wrote:

The Alma Mater wrote:
Which is only half of the worlds population Currently that is.
But true, it is unlikely. Still, thought experiments often are

Well, marriage is also a custom in Hinduism as well, though historically it has been mainly polygamous.

So add in another billion.

Hinduism is a fractured religion - and not wholly against gay marriage. In fact, quite a few Hindus even believe there are more than 2 genders.
Sikhs otoh do not like gays

The Alma Mater wrote:

Euronion wrote:
1. that scenario is extremely unlikely because not only would it go against the relgion of Muslims, Jews, and Christains all over the world

Which is only half of the worlds population Currently that is.
But true, it is unlikely. Still, thought experiments often are

Christians make up 3 billion of the worlds population, Muslims make up 2 billion, and Jews make up a few million, with a global population of around 7 billion as of January, thats 5+out of 7 billion who are either Christians, Jewish, or Muslims. That doesn't even include China's population, from which I understan, is pretty hostile towards it too so add another billion or so to that list

Pauper Kings wrote:

The Warrior Hearted wrote:actually, gays dont have equal rights. They cant marry, they are socially viewed as "wrong",...

You can't forcibly change people's attitudes or morality. If you do that you're practically headed for thought control. Political Correctness, as it's being practiced in some circles, falls just short of thought control by penalizing people for certain attitudes, feelings, and 'incorrect' thinking.

They can live their lives and have the relationships they want, but they can't have the exact reaction and outcome by forcing people to give it to them.

who is trying to change your attitude, allowing gay marriage is about changing the law, you can keep your beliefs.
and of course you can forcibly change someones morality, that's what laws do, make everyone live by the same rules. You are arguing I should be allowed to murder people if I happen to think it is morally acceptable.

Galla- wrote:

Euronion wrote:
If you want to live in a society where being gay is openly celebrated and seen as wonderful move to Sweden

I prefer Vermont.

They have a more gun friendly atmosphere, and just as gay celebrating.

New England tends to do well. I wish we could just toss all those farmers up north in Maine into Canada for a few weeks while we count votes, because the people they elect have been fucking with democratic process too much.

I would imagine a large part of it has to do with the media, religion, and immaturity. It's considered "unnatural" by many people, even though it's completely normal.