Why are People Homophobic?

[New England and The Maritimes]

What they're saying is that basing discrimination on groundless assertions of inequality, which go against the spirit of the 14th amendment, is not allowed.

Look again.

The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination.

I'm sorry to tell you this...but no. Homosexual marriage is not a guaranteed right. The legality of it is a completely legal debate.

One specific reference to the specific case is not as important as the broader concept presented. That concept is that marriage is a fundamental right which cannot be infringed upon based on the absolute horse shit the "defenders of marriage" have brought before courts in Connecticut, California, Maine and Iowa, among others.

[Pauper Kings]

Freedom hating my ass.

You can all love each other the whole live long day. But not all states and their voting blocks will abide by your definitions or attitudes about...some...things. Majority in a fair vote still counts for soemthing. The real freedom haters are the judges who overturn decisions made by the voters.

Your religion tells you to love and accept, yet you are willing to use the state as a weapon to smash dissenting opinions about morality regardless of the fact that it makes no impact on you one way or the other. Why do you hate Christianity?

What religion??

[Ceannairceach]

Marriage is a right. Fuck, read Loving v. Virginia, for fuck's sake. If you don't understand what is and is not a right, you have no reason to even attempt to "teach" us.

They were a black and white hetero couple of consenting age, so what..

It sets the basis for the idea, just as you cannot deny someone state medical care on the basis of race, religion, creed, sexual orientation or whatnot, you shouldn't be able to deny someone a state marriage for the state.

[Galla-]

Except for the fact that marriage is a legal issue and there's never been a real legal argument about why the hell they shouldn't be allowed to do what they want.

Since you're a minister move to a state that has marriage, not civil unions, and marry as many of them as you can handle. There's one small solution. There's Mass., New York, Vermont, Maine, DC, Illinois(I think) and a few others. There isn't a lack of rights in this country. Unless they want privileges and not rights.

Marriage is a human right.

Derp.

Every one of these arguments boils down to the freedom hating bigots declaring what is and isn't a right with no regard for accepted legal precedent even in their own backyard. I get kind of sick of it when we have 10,000 of these threads a year with the same facts presented over and over and over and nobody bothers to look.

I shouldn't say that. I'm sure they look, but like with everything else in their lives, freedom hating bigots don't give a shit. If there's evidence against their positions, it's "biased." They come to a preconception first, then they search for "evidence" that matches that preconception. Anything else is invalid.

Freedom hating my ass.

You can all love each other the whole live long day. But not all states and their voting blocks will abide by your definitions or attitudes about...some...things. Majority in a fair vote still counts for soemthing. The real freedom haters are the judges who overturn decisions made by the voters.

I'm loling irl at this logic.

[Sovereign Oppression]

Look again.



I'm sorry to tell you this...but no. Homosexual marriage is not a guaranteed right. The legality of it is a completely legal debate.

One specific reference to the specific case is not as important as the broader concept presented. That concept is that marriage is a fundamental right which cannot be infringed upon based on the absolute horse shit the "defenders of marriage" have brought before courts in Connecticut, California, Maine and Iowa, among others.

Only the Supreme Court can interpret things in a broad sense. In which case, it then must specifically note them into law. I understand what you're getting at...but the literal clearly does not make note of homosexual marriage. It only defines marriage as a right, and says you cannot discriminate because of race. It does not make any specific note of general discrimination, nor does it specifically note homosexuals. So, as it stands, the debate is completely legal, unless that broad interpretation gets written into law, or homosexual marriage gets written into law. The debate, however bigoted, is sadly legal.

[Gauthier]

Since you're a minister move to a state that has marriage, not civil unions, and marry as many of them as you can handle. There's one small solution. There's Mass., New York, Vermont, Maine, DC, Illinois(I think) and a few others. There isn't a lack of rights in this country. Unless they want privileges and not rights.

Marriage is a human right.

Derp.

Fags aren't humans, silly. They're zombies that spread their gay virus and need to be shot in the head to stop them.

[Des-Bal]

Fags aren't humans, silly. They're zombies that spread their gay virus and need to be shot in the head to stop them.

Using strawmen occasionally is resourceful, using them constantly is closer to a mental illness.

[Galla-]

Marriage is a human right.

Derp.

Fags aren't humans, silly. They're zombies that spread their gay virus and need to be shot in the head to stop them.

I'm trying to imagine this.

All that's coming to my mind is surprise buttsecks.

Fags aren't humans, silly. They're zombies that spread their gay virus and need to be shot in the head to stop them.

Using strawmen occasionally is resourceful, using them constantly is closer to a mental illness.

It's pretty close to what PK is saying, though. Not really a strawman when it's not an exaggeration.

[Pauper Kings]

Thanks for confirming my suspicions that homophobia is nothing but the result of obsessive gender archetypes. "All men must be exactly like this." "All women must be exactly like this." Homosexuality threatens this artificially imposed gender binary, and that's the real reason it's opposed.

I have no problem with that reasoning. I agree that gender archetypes can be flexible, but they aren't meaningless. Certain beliefs and practices in the homosexual community would love to make them moot.

Being a man. Being a woman. Both should have some value to them and some meaning. A genderless world would be awful.

[Ceannairceach]

Being a man. Being a woman. Both should have some value to them and some meaning. A genderless world would be awful.

How so? And how is lacking gender stereotypes a genderless world?

[Pauper Kings]

Since you're a minister move to a state that has marriage, not civil unions, and marry as many of them as you can handle. There's one small solution. There's Mass., New York, Vermont, Maine, DC, Illinois(I think) and a few others. There isn't a lack of rights in this country. Unless they want privileges and not rights.

Marriage is a human right.

Derp.

Freedom hating my ass.

You can all love each other the whole live long day. But not all states and their voting blocks will abide by your definitions or attitudes about...some...things. Majority in a fair vote still counts for soemthing. The real freedom haters are the judges who overturn decisions made by the voters.

I'm loling irl at this logic.

If you have something useful to say, say it. Otherwise get out of the way, little boy or girl.

[Sovereign Oppression]

Being a man. Being a woman. Both should have some value to them and some meaning.

I disagree.

A genderless world would be awful.

No one says you have to be genderless. There should simply be no special significance in being male or female, outside of biological functions.

[Pauper Kings]

Being a man. Being a woman. Both should have some value to them and some meaning.

I disagree.

A genderless world would be awful.

No one says you have to be genderless. There should simply be no special significance in being male or female, outside of biological functions.

Wow.

So any feelings of masculinity I have are false? They are unnatural? I don't believe in the being taught masculinity meme/crap.

[Ceannairceach]

So any feelings of masculinity I have are false? They are unnatural? I don't believe in the being taught masculinity meme/crap.

No, but it wouldn't matter if you feel like a man or a woman, or if you are of the male or female sex. It would simply be a negligible characteristic of you, like hair or eye color.

[Polruan]

That sounds like nonsense mind-body dualism. The existence of psychologically androgynous individuals does not mean that biological sex is not closely tied to most people's psychology. This kind of idiocy is literally something I have only heard people on the internet espouse, so I suppose it must be some kind of North American lunacy like snake-handling and creation museums.

Otherwise, gender identity disorder wouldn't exist!

[Sovereign Oppression]

I disagree.



No one says you have to be genderless. There should simply be no special significance in being male or female, outside of biological functions.

Wow.

So any feelings of masculinity I have are false? They are unnatural? I don't believe in the being taught masculinity meme/crap.

Masculinity is merely the product of society. The only "manly" thing about a man is their penis and testicles. The only "womanly" thing about a woman is her vagina, breasts, and ability to give birth. The only "purpose" for a man is to reproduce. the only "purpose" for a woman is to reproduce. anything else can be done and enjoyed y either sex, and therefore, inherently belongs to neither. Anything other than sex and biology is socially engineered. You may not believe it, but it's true.

[Milks Empire]

Thanks for confirming my suspicions that homophobia is nothing but the result of obsessive gender archetypes. "All men must be exactly like this." "All women must be exactly like this." Homosexuality threatens this artificially imposed gender binary, and that's the real reason it's opposed.

(Emphasis mine.)
You, mein Freund, win an internet.

[Sovereign Oppression]

That sounds like nonsense mind-body dualism. The existence of psychologically androgynous individuals does not mean that biological sex is not closely tied to most people's psychology. This kind of idiocy is literally something I have only heard people on the internet espouse, so I suppose it must be some kind of North American lunacy like snake-handling and creation museums.

Otherwise, gender identity disorder wouldn't exist!

Gender identities exist (usually) because of societies' gender role assignment.

[Ceannairceach]

That sounds like nonsense mind-body dualism. The existence of psychologically androgynous individuals does not mean that biological sex is not closely tied to most people's psychology. This kind of idiocy is literally something I have only heard people on the internet espouse, so I suppose it must be some kind of North American lunacy like snake-handling and creation museums.

Otherwise, gender identity disorder wouldn't exist!

A person with a gender that does not match their sex, due to willful or unconscious adherence to certain gender specifications. What's so hard to understand?

[Polruan]

Anything other than sex and biology is socially engineered. You may not believe it, but it's true.

Oh God a blank slate nutter. Guess what science genius, your brain is part of your biology!

I bet you don't believe homosexuality is a choice though, even though that's basically the same

[Milks Empire]

I bet you don't believe homosexuality is a choice though

It isn't.

[Sovereign Oppression]

Anything other than sex and biology is socially engineered. You may not believe it, but it's true.

Oh God a blank slate nutter. Guess what science genius, your brain is part of your biology!

I bet you don't believe homosexuality is a choice though, even though that's basically the same

Yes, your brain is part of your biology.

...what is your point? That does not change social engineering.

It's not nuts. It's fact. Unless you can explain different cultures, different beliefs on morality, ect. We are shaped by our surroundings.

EDIT: And yes, homosexuality is not a choice. It's something that occurs in the brain naturally. What is your point?

[Pauper Kings]

So any feelings of masculinity I have are false? They are unnatural? I don't believe in the being taught masculinity meme/crap.

No, but it wouldn't matter if you feel like a man or a woman, or if you are of the male or female sex. It would simply be a negligible characteristic of you, like hair or eye color.

The entire world is geared towards gender differences. Most people feel this naturally. I believe that it is largely something that you are born with. Because, gosh, I felt like a boy from my earliest memories and I was attracted to girls from a pretty early age too. By tearing this down you create an awful lot of harmful confusion. You don't have the right to meddle in these things.

They are too important to be negligible.

[Polruan]

My point is that everything about us is biological so you cannot separate psychology from biology. Small boys do not overwhelmingly choose to make guns and swords out of everything they can lay their hands on because some intangible, nebulous force told them to do it. Just like I don't fancy men because the liberal media put the idea in my head.

As a really random example that should not be necessary for anyone with the slightest observation skills, I just read an account of Sioux life by an old Sioux man in which he said something about the intimacy of nomad life necessitating that the greatest warrior would show "feminine refinement". If the idea of masculinity and femininty is common to pretty much the whole world, how can it be social engineering? Social engineering plays a part in everything, that doesn't mean everything's caused by it. Do people find disease disgusting because the powers that be told us to?

[Ceannairceach]

No, but it wouldn't matter if you feel like a man or a woman, or if you are of the male or female sex. It would simply be a negligible characteristic of you, like hair or eye color.

The entire world is geared towards gender differences. Most people feel this naturally. I believe that it is largely something that you are born with. Because, gosh, I felt like a boy from my earliest memories and I was attracted to girls from a pretty early age too. By tearing this down you create an awful lot of harmful confusion. You don't have the right to meddle in these things.

They are too important to be negligible.

Nor would I meddle. The fact that you liked girls or if you felt like a boy(even if you were a girl in either case) would become a simple fact about you, if I had forged society. Yes, its likely an important part about you as it will likely develop your growth and actions, but its still just about you, and no one else, like hair and eye color.