Why?Why do you all hate communism?

[Free Collective Farms]

We already had the discussion about human nature. You say it's competition, i say it's mutual aid. The latter was predominant in the past (tribal structures, traditional community structure of Buryat, Ossetian, Scottish etc. villages in the past, guilds in the middle ages, etc.), full scale predatory capitalism is relatively young in the history of mankind and brought a deviation from the true human nature by propagating universal competitiveness. But is the pressure of always being competitive the key to a happy live?

No but neither is your Idea

Then what would be the alternative in your opinion?

[The Burya Natsiya]

I'm playing a fictional communist country exactly because I think communism is excellent on the paper, awesome for fiction, but not in real-life, and I draw that line very clearly. Despite being somewhat left in my views, I don't, and will never endorse communism, because it just doesn't work! Humans proved themselves to be way too individualistic for the communist ideals - whichever one! - to work really.

[Allemonde]

Don't hate communism, just the way the system would be set up thru the Dictatorship of the Proletariet. Any form of dictatorship weither totalitarian of benevolent will lead to abuses and corruption. I prefer a more libertarian/anarchist form of socialism or communism. I still believe that democracy would be better to rule by force.


Edit: I hang around with communists, mostly Maoist, which is odd cause I dislike thier views on Tibet as a Buddhist.

[The Burya Natsiya]

Don't hate communism, just the way the system would be set up thru the Dictatorship of the Proletariet. Any form of dictatorship weither totalitarian of benevolent will lead to abuses and corruption. I prefer a more libertarian/anarchist form of socialism or communism. I still believe that democracy would be better to rule by force.


Edit: I hang around with communists, mostly Maoist, which is odd cause I dislike thier views on Tibet as a Buddhist.

So basically, you want the "ruled by the strongest" ideal?

[California Bay Area]

No but neither is your Idea

Then what would be the alternative in your opinion?

Socialism(not the same as communism)

[Allemonde]

Don't hate communism, just the way the system would be set up thru the Dictatorship of the Proletariet. Any form of dictatorship weither totalitarian of benevolent will lead to abuses and corruption. I prefer a more libertarian/anarchist form of socialism or communism. I still believe that democracy would be better to rule by force.


Edit: I hang around with communists, mostly Maoist, which is odd cause I dislike thier views on Tibet as a Buddhist.

So basically, you want the "ruled by the strongest" ideal?

When faced with being ruled by someone like Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot, yes. I intensly dislike dictators. I'm still not sure about H. Chavez and Castro being better for thier governments. When govts go away from rule of the people, you get the worst abuses imaginable on right or left

Edit: I hang around with Maoists, but I disagree with most of thier ideas.

[The Burya Natsiya]

When faced with being ruled by someone like Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot, yes. I intensly dislike dictators. I'm still not sure about H. Chavez and Castro being better for thier governments. When govts go away from rule of the people, you get the worst abuses imaginable on right or left

And so... what do you propose against that?

[Allemonde]

When faced with being ruled by someone like Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot, yes. I intensly dislike dictators. I'm still not sure about H. Chavez and Castro being better for thier governments. When govts go away from rule of the people, you get the worst abuses imaginable on right or left

And so... what do you propose against that?

Democracy, to be more specific direct democracy is the best answer and i've heard most of the reasons against it but a Churchill said: No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time. I certianly wouldn't consider the US a democracy, I would prefer something more towards Norway or Sweeden.

[Volnotova]

Because it sucks.

Comrade Sibirsky, why do you hate freedom?

Don't worry, we can cure your anti-social problem.

Does it involve sending Sibirsky to a resort somewhere in Siberia?

[Divine Unity]

I am never sarcastic. Sarcasm is just another word for deceit, and God will never fully accept one of his children who is deceitful.

Take your 'comrade' Stalin, for example.

Oh you're one of those "communism is evil because the soviets were militant atheists so god must hate commies" types.

Boring.

See, as devout as I am, I don't look at Communism and say Satan is involved.
I look at Communism, deep down I wish it could work, but too many times it has failed. The only way for true communism to work is if the ENTIRE world is communist, and that inherently falls flat upon its face.

[Seattile]

Does anyone remember Pol Pot? The Cambodian Communist rebel leader that wanted everyone on the same economy level, and the only way for that to happen is to make the rich, the smart, and others to leave or kill them and cause a genocide. Or does anyone remember Stalin who wanted the same thing and pretty much did the same thing and his plans caused over a million deaths, and anyone who disagreed with him were sent to the Gulogs where 1.7 million people died. Or how about Mao Zedong, who did the same thing as Stalin but without the Gulogs, and his infamous 'Great Leap Forward' that caused the deadlist famine in Human history. But my main point is... Communism is a fairy tale.

[Vetalia]

Does anyone remember Pol Pot? The Cambodian Communist rebel leader that wanted everyone on the same economy level, and the only way for that to happen is to make the rich, the smart, and others to leave or kill them and cause a genocide. Or does anyone remember Stalin who wanted the same thing and pretty much did the same thing and his plans caused over a million deaths, and anyone who disagreed with him were sent to the Gulogs where 1.7 million people died. Or how about Mao Zedong, who did the same thing as Stalin but without the Gulogs, and his infamous 'Great Leap Forward' that caused the deadlist famine in Human history. But my main point is... Communism is a fairy tale.

Pol Pot has the dubious honor of being the only leader in history besides Idi Amin (AFAIK) who literally did nothing good for his country.

[Divine Unity]

Does anyone remember Pol Pot? The Cambodian Communist rebel leader that wanted everyone on the same economy level, and the only way for that to happen is to make the rich, the smart, and others to leave or kill them and cause a genocide. Or does anyone remember Stalin who wanted the same thing and pretty much did the same thing and his plans caused over a million deaths, and anyone who disagreed with him were sent to the Gulogs where 1.7 million people died. Or how about Mao Zedong, who did the same thing as Stalin but without the Gulogs, and his infamous 'Great Leap Forward' that caused the deadlist famine in Human history. But my main point is... Communism is a fairy tale.

But, unlike most Fairy Tales, it seems to lack the happy ending.

[Sanguinthium]

There are medications though that make living with it much more bearable. Those are not availlable to many infected as they cannot afford them.

Proof?

Obviously some medication won't be available to the poor, but not all infected are necessarily poor. Besides, that's what welfare exists for.

Is there welfare in any country in africa? with the exception of S. Africa, i sincerely douby it. besides, Magic Johnson has HIV and hes totally fine. therefore, AIDS medication does exist, as is common knowledge.
besides, Welfare is a SOCIALIST policy.

[Sanguinthium]

Yes. it rapes them up the ass. and i notice you omitted about 4/5 of my post.

my point is, a socialist government would distribute medicines, and the countries would have economies, and not have military coups.

So wait, the whole of the US has AIDS? The U.S hasn't had a military coup and their capitalist and the US has the world's largest economy.
Also, there is no cure for AIDS

medicine doesny mean cure. medicine means that it improves the condition. and the entire context was on the Castro quote from earlier. besides, america is not capitalist. there are no truly capitalist countries in the entire world. for example, i will get arrested for the economic activity of heroin sales. therefore america does not have an entirely free market, and therefore is not capitalist.
Technically, id call american economics corpratism.

[Sanguinthium]

Care to back that up a bit?

A nice little example would be the medical system in Cuba which overall clearly defeats what the USA have in place. (and that while under embargo) Capitalism may provide you with luxuries, but it does so on the cost of the average citizen of the so-called developing countries. It is fun to be wealthy - but your wealth is another mans starvation. Capital accumulation is the key...for everything one capitalist hay own - someone else does not. Every cent of banking interrest has to be generated, money does not breed.

Also, the US has higher quality medical system than Cuba.

Michael Moore made a documentary about the medical situation...
9/11 first responders got some lung disease. the medicine in america cost $400. he took them to cuba, where it cost something along the lines of $1.50.
which would you prefer?

[Useran]

Michael Moore made a documentary about the medical situation...
9/11 first responders got some lung disease. the medicine in america cost $400. he took them to cuba, where it cost something along the lines of $1.50.
which would you prefer?

Thats an isolated example.

Not to mention that Michael Moore is a jackass.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

Also, the US has higher quality medical system than Cuba.

Michael Moore made a documentary about the medical situation...
9/11 first responders got some lung disease. the medicine in america cost $400. he took them to cuba, where it cost something along the lines of $1.50.
which would you prefer?

You can do the same thing in Mexico. Doesn't necessarily mean Mexico has a higher quality medical care system.

[Sanguinthium]

Michael Moore made a documentary about the medical situation...
9/11 first responders got some lung disease. the medicine in america cost $400. he took them to cuba, where it cost something along the lines of $1.50.
which would you prefer?

You can do the same thing in Mexico. Doesn't necessarily mean Mexico has a higher quality medical care system.

yes actually... it does.
since it costs $400 here, that means our MEDICAL SYSTEM is incapable of catering to the POOR, especially when the poor help in 9/11.

and its not an isolated example; the state of cuba has universal insurance. think about this; Canada. thats right. Canada. has better health care than america.

think about it. if something in america is $400, 1.50 in cuba, that means that if its 4000 in america, its 15.00 in america. 40,000=150.00.
especially when objective world rankings beg to differ. on health care, Cuba>America.

[Hallistar]

Really people what the hell is wrong with communism?!?!Ive heard very hateful things about communism,and i want to know your dang reasons for it!

Don't kid yourself. Classless society won't be coming anytime soon, and it'll probably take future technology in order to make a planned economy work efficiently and not have mass shortages. Human nature isn't as clean cut as the idea of communism, and people will still strive for power and people will also still strive for recognition of their work over others. I just don't understand sympathizers of Lenin and Stalin, they whitewash these leaders whilst accusing more right-wing oriented people of whitewashing their leaders (And this is true though, most if not all leaders and systems are guilty of different things).

[Useran]

and its not an isolated example; the state of cuba has universal insurance. think about this; Canada. thats right. Canada. has better health care than america.

think about it. if something in america is $400, 1.50 in cuba, that means that if its 4000 in america, its 15.00 in america. 40,000=150.00.
especially when objective world rankings beg to differ. on health care, Cuba>America.

Canada having better health care than the US is nothing new. But I prefer the American system simply because if I can afford to get better treatment I should get better treatment.

But if I had a terrible disease I'd much rather remain in the US than go to Mexico or Cuba of all places.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

You can do the same thing in Mexico. Doesn't necessarily mean Mexico has a higher quality medical care system.

yes actually... it does.
since it costs $400 here, that means our MEDICAL SYSTEM is incapable of catering to the POOR, especially when the poor help in 9/11.

and its not an isolated example; the state of cuba has universal insurance. think about this; Canada. thats right. Canada. has better health care than america.

think about it. if something in america is $400, 1.50 in cuba, that means that if its 4000 in america, its 15.00 in america. 40,000=150.00.
especially when objective world rankings beg to differ. on health care, Cuba>America.

No actually, it doesn't. Price is not the end all be all of quality. In fact it's largely irrelevant. Although I agree with you Canada's healthcare system is superior.

[Sanguinthium]

and its not an isolated example; the state of cuba has universal insurance. think about this; Canada. thats right. Canada. has better health care than america.

think about it. if something in america is $400, 1.50 in cuba, that means that if its 4000 in america, its 15.00 in america. 40,000=150.00.
especially when objective world rankings beg to differ. on health care, Cuba>America.

Canada having better health care than the US is nothing new. But I prefer the American system simply because if I can afford to get better treatment I should get better treatment.

But if I had a terrible disease I'd much rather remain in the US than go to Mexico or Cuba of all places.

i wouldnt go to mexico, simply because im no fan of being decapitated by a machete.
but the point is, the SAME medicine cost $1.50, when it costs $400 in america. therefore, the Socialist medicine is more affordable, since the treatment is THE SAME.
think about this; you have no insurance, and have lung cancer. you could pay $400,000 in america... or $1500 in cuba.

can you afford a 400,000 dollar treatment, when you would recieve identical treatment 103 miles south of florida, for 398,500 dollars cheaper?

[Useran]

you could pay $400,000 in america... or $1500 in cuba.

can you afford a 400,000 dollar treatment, when you would recieve identical treatment 103 miles south of florida, for 398,500 dollars cheaper?

You ever heard the expression "You get what you pay for"?

Just because it's cheaper to get treatment in Cuba doesn't mean that you'll receive better care.

If you want liposuction you can either go to an actual doctor, or have one of your friends stick a vacuum up your ass and switch it to suck instead of blow.

[Sanguinthium]

you could pay $400,000 in america... or $1500 in cuba.

can you afford a 400,000 dollar treatment, when you would recieve identical treatment 103 miles south of florida, for 398,500 dollars cheaper?

You ever heard the expression "You get what you pay for"?

Just because it's cheaper to get treatment in Cuba doesn't mean that you'll receive better care.

If you want liposuction you can either go to an actual doctor, or have one of your friends stick a vacuum up your ass and switch it to suck instead of blow.

its the same medicine, the same treatment. the "you get what you pay for" only applies to CAPITALISM