Criminals allowed to go to Church and skip jail time.

[Terraius]

Just tell kids what the fuck happens when you have unprotected sex. If they do it anyways, who gives a fuck. Not your problem, tbh.

Thats pretty much the whole point of my cumulative time wasted here.

But then again, I usually dont have a point to pretty much anything I say. I just like to be heard.

Where was I again..

[Four-sided Triangles]

And yes, people will keep killing other people, but we dont educate them on safer ways to not get caught, either. The 'safe' morality compromise is defunct and useless.

Which only works if you assume that people having sex is inherently bad. If we could completely eliminate the consequences of murder, then murder wouldn't be wrong either. Killing people is bad because, by definition, it involves removing people from existence. It also causes economic damage and emotional damage to the loved ones of the murder victim. If we lived in a universe where everyone had an "infinite lives" cheat code, killing wouldn't really be a big deal. You cannot coherently separate moral considerations from consequences. Not even deontology succeeds in so doing, and divine command theory is circular nonsense.

The only real reason to not want sex to be safer is if you think sex is bad and that people should be punished for having it. Oh, sex has "consequences," you say? Sure it does, but those consequences are contingent upon the context in which the act takes place. The consequences of drinking water today are vastly different from what they were before we had the germ theory of disease. Would you suggest that we get rid of water treatment so that people come to terms with the "real" consequences of drinking water? Or do you, like all rational people, recognize that consequences are not absolute, but contingent upon society, technology, and infrastructure? How is this a hard concept to grasp?

Teaching people about sex is not the solution, abstinence or condoms, whether you want to believe it or not. Indeed, people will keep having sexual relations, however the solution is not to pass out condoms to kids or to tell them to keep their legs closed until they are married and established. It would be more effective to teach the risks involved.

1. In all but a very few situations, like the knowledge on how to build chemical weapons, more factual information is ALWAYS a good thing. Ignorance is almost always worse than knowledge.

2. Proper sex education DOES teach the risks of sex. However, it teaches the real risks of sex in a sober manner, always balanced against empirical evidence, rather than in a sensationalist manner, balanced against Augustinian and puritanical erotophobia.

[-St George]

This makes me ashamed to live in Alabama.

Really? There's many more things that would make me ashamed to live in Alabama.

The living in Alabama part, for instance.

[Bitchkitten]

I'd sue. Yay for the ACLU. The only time I'll step foot in a church is to humor family at weddings and funerals.

[Pope Joan]

This might be ok if there were enough worship options available.

For instance, they should include Big Jim's church.

http://d2.ac-videos.myspacecdn.com/vide ... 7dd12d.jpg

[The Chaos Heart]

No, it's not okay, because it's a way for the ones who break the law to weasel out of punishment, by claiming to attend church, when really, even if they go there, they don't care, they won't learn anything. It's corrupt.

[AiliailiA]

No, it's not okay, because it's a way for the ones who break the law to weasel out of punishment, by claiming to attend church, when really, even if they go there, they don't care, they won't learn anything. It's corrupt.

Poor judgment by the Police Chief. I wouldn't say corrupt.

[Genivaria]

This makes me ashamed to live in Alabama.

Really? There's many more things that would make me ashamed to live in Alabama.

The living in Alabama part, for instance.

[Sibirsky]

What do atheist/agnostic criminals do?

Lie. Church > jail.

[Genivaria]

What do atheist/agnostic criminals do?

Lie. Church > jail.

a choice of a year of church attendance

So I just have to be their right? So can I just bring my new Eragon book instead?
"Yeah you go do your tribal chants, I'm getting to the best part."

[Sibirsky]

Lie. Church > jail.

a choice of a year of church attendance

So I just have to be their right? So can I just bring my new Eragon book instead?
"Yeah you go do your tribal chants, I'm getting to the best part."

I guess. I wouldn't be too open about reading some other book. Or, just put it into the middle of a bible.

[-St George]

Really? There's many more things that would make me ashamed to live in Alabama.

The living in Alabama part, for instance.

I'm here all week.

[Genivaria]

So I just have to be their right? So can I just bring my new Eragon book instead?
"Yeah you go do your tribal chants, I'm getting to the best part."

I guess. I wouldn't be too open about reading some other book. Or, just put it into the middle of a bible.

I'm sure someone would notice that.

[Inky Noodles]

What do atheist/agnostic criminals do?

they play on bouncy blow ups.

[Genivaria]

What do atheist/agnostic criminals do?

they play on bouncy blow ups.

Huh?

[AiliailiA]

I'm here all week.

It's not that funny really.

I'm sure there are good and praiseworthy people living in Alabama. They might be tied to family by the need to care for a relative. They may be tied to family by simply not yet being adult. They may have a job there but poor prospects of finding some other job, and thus not be free to move away. They may be in jail for breaking some Alabama law!

Alabama and its history, and its law, deserve some stout mockery. But not every person who lives there.

[AiliailiA]

What do atheist/agnostic criminals do?

they play on bouncy blow ups.

Use your noodle before bringing the ink.

[TrueState]

The Program is entirely voluntary.
Athiests have hte option of other activities. Such as Community Service.
Although I don't remember if the article mentioned people of non Christian backround (Muslims, Jews)
but they could do community service as well if they wanted to I think, although I'm not sure Community Service would do anything to support values.

I hope this works out well

[Bottle]

Bingo.

If these are people who genuinely deserve or need jail time, then letting them walk just because they will go to church once a week is completely inappropriate. And if they are people who genuinely don't deserve or need jail time, they just need to spend once a week doing something in penance, then it is completely and totally inappropriate to lock them up if they decline to go to a religious ceremony.

I think the idea isn't that they just do something in penitence twice a week, but that they are in some sort of program that will teach them how to turn their lives around and help them to integrate into the mainstream community and get a job and shit, rather than continue with a life of crime, not be able to get a real job because of a criminal record, etc. My problem is that it's necessarily religious, and, by default, one religion in a multi-faith society (the article said there were few, of any, mosques and synagogues available for this program).

I've never seen any compelling evidence that going to church makes a person less likely to commit a crime.

So, better than giving them x hours of trash pickup, give them the option of enrolling in some sort of rehabilitation program, be it a program to help them with specific substance abuse or mental health problems, or some sort of general rehab program that will help with vocational training, integration into society, etc. This can be done in conjunction with local non-profits, including churches, mosques, synagogues, etc, on the same basis as with any other community non-profits.

Much better idea. Find programs that have actually been shown to work, as opposed to religious ceremonies which don't appear to have much impact one way or the other.

[-St George]

I'm here all week.

It's not that funny really.

I'm sure there are good and praiseworthy people living in Alabama. They might be tied to family by the need to care for a relative. They may be tied to family by simply not yet being adult. They may have a job there but poor prospects of finding some other job, and thus not be free to move away. They may be in jail for breaking some Alabama law!

Alabama and its history, and its law, deserve some stout mockery. But not every person who lives there.

itt alabama is srs bsns

[Bottle]

The idea of abstinence is a simple one. If you want to be 100% sure you dont want to get an STD or pregnant, then dont have sex. If you are willing to take the risk with condoms, do so at your own risk.

Which is precisely why the Church's focus on abstinence education is complete and utter horseshit...because the Church also teaches that we are supposed to get married and have babies, so they specifically encourage people to NOT remain abstinent for life. Everyone, including the Church, assumes that most people will have sex at some point in their life.

They just focus on making sure that when people have sex, it is unsafe sex. Because they preach the lie that if you're a virgin when you marry and you're faithful to your spouse, then you'll never need contraception and you'll never need to protect yourself against STDs.

Seriously, don't bring this weak-ass bullshit up in here. The Church's stance on sex ed, contraception, and sexual behavior is so reprehensible that there's no defending it.

[Tekania]

No, it's not okay, because it's a way for the ones who break the law to weasel out of punishment, by claiming to attend church, when really, even if they go there, they don't care, they won't learn anything. It's corrupt.

Yes, far better we should just drag them into the street and ass rape them to death.

This post in no way represents my views

[Bottle]

Just tell kids what the fuck happens when you have unprotected sex. If they do it anyways, who gives a fuck. Not your problem, tbh.

Except it IS your problem.

If kids are fucking without protection and getting STDs, those medical costs have to be paid by somebody. The kids who are at highest risk for STDs tend to be the kids who don't have access to safe and effective contraception, and those same kids are also the ones who are most likely to be uninsured and have parents who simply cannot afford good medical coverage.

If kids are fucking without protection and somebody gets pregnant, the costs dealing with that pregnancy have to be paid by somebody. See above.

The anti-choice right has done a wonderful job of making sure that abortion services, while nominally legal, are extremely difficult to obtain for this same demographic. So the costs of bearing, birthing, and raising the resulting offspring will have to be carried by somebody. See above.

The resulting children, born to under-age parents who were already disadvantaged to begin with, will very likely become another generation of problems that will have to be dealt with.

These people and these problems exist. You can stick your fingers in your ears and insist that it ain't yer problem, but it is. If you choose to ignore them, they will still get sick, they will still need food, they will still try to survive. They will turn to crime if they must. They will spread illness because they have no choice. They will continue to have more children because you won't do a thing to help them have alternatives, and even the poor are going to seek life's small pleasures (like sex) when they can.

It's infantile and stupid to pretend like you can just tell kids "this is what happens if you fuck" and then wash your hands of everything after that. Thank heavens for the countless people who are more responsible than that, and who take it upon themselves to help ensure that kids get medical care and counseling beyond this pathetic excuse for "sex ed."

[Genivaria]

Just tell kids what the fuck happens when you have unprotected sex. If they do it anyways, who gives a fuck. Not your problem, tbh.

Except it IS your problem.

If kids are fucking without protection and getting STDs, those medical costs have to be paid by somebody. The kids who are at highest risk for STDs tend to be the kids who don't have access to safe and effective contraception, and those same kids are also the ones who are most likely to be uninsured and have parents who simply cannot afford good medical coverage.

If kids are fucking without protection and somebody gets pregnant, the costs dealing with that pregnancy have to be paid by somebody. See above.

The anti-choice right has done a wonderful job of making sure that abortion services, while nominally legal, are extremely difficult to obtain for this same demographic. So the costs of bearing, birthing, and raising the resulting offspring will have to be carried by somebody. See above.

The resulting children, born to under-age parents who were already disadvantaged to begin with, will very likely become another generation of problems that will have to be dealt with.

These people and these problems exist. You can stick your fingers in your ears and insist that it ain't yer problem, but it is. If you choose to ignore them, they will still get sick, they will still need food, they will still try to survive. They will turn to crime if they must. They will spread illness because they have no choice. They will continue to have more children because you won't do a thing to help them have alternatives, and even the poor are going to seek life's small pleasures (like sex) when they can.

It's infantile and stupid to pretend like you can just tell kids "this is what happens if you fuck" and then wash your hands of everything after that. Thank heavens for the countless people who are more responsible than that, and who take it upon themselves to help ensure that kids get medical care and counseling beyond this pathetic excuse for "sex ed."

At my high school, Health class was mandatory and I took it in my Freshmen year.
For some reason it was reclassified as an elective in my Junior year, which I often criticized as idiotic.

[Damanscene]

Well I am most likely in a minority here but I agree with the police and religous community on this one. We have tried a lot of things with criminals. Death sentence, life in prison, forced work, probation, house arrest, and maybe even some deportations. And I also believe that like them in the way that 95% of crime is because of a lack of strong morals and bleiefs as well as a combination of economic problems. No morals + no money = criminal. Simple. and no nation on the planet has truly been able to desrtoy poverty. Only reduce it. But I think we may have a lot more sucess with the moral and belief part than the economic part. If there is anything else people are more stubborn with than their faith it is their wallets. And as far as the ACLU goes I believe this are just another effort for them to gain media attention. There are REAL civil rights issues out there for them to protest.

I support these efforts to actually think outside of the box.