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Criminals allowed to go to Church and skip jail time.

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Genivaria
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Criminals allowed to go to Church and skip jail time.

Postby Genivaria » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:19 pm

http://blog.al.com/live/2011/09/bay_min ... enten.html

BAY MINETTE, Alabama — A new alternative sentencing program offering first-time, nonviolent offenders a choice of a year of church attendance or jail time and fines is drawing fire from the American Civil Liberties Union as well as national attention, officials said Friday.
"This policy is blatantly unconstitutional," said Olivia Turner, executive director for the ACLU of Alabama. "It violates one basic tenant of the Constitution, namely that government can’t force participation in religious activity."
But the local police chief who is heading up the program starting Tuesday called "Restore Our Community" says no one is being forced to participate.
"Operation ROC resulted from meetings with church leaders," Bay Minette Police Chief Mike Rowland said. "It was agreed by all the pastors that at the core of the crime problem was the erosion of family values and morals. We have children raising children and parents not instilling values in young people."
Rowland said the idea was simple: get people who are not yet hardened criminals to become involved in positive programs — hundreds of free resources offered by some 104 churches in the region with 56 agreeing to help monitor first-time, nonviolent offenders. Under the program, pastors would report weekly to the chief and offenders in the program would bring a signed sheet to prove they attended church.
They would also have to answer some questions about the services, Rowland said. And the offenders who voluntarily choose church over jail get to pick the churches they attend. If they complete a year’s attendance, Rowland said, their criminal case would be dismissed.
Rowland said the goal is to produce "productive citizens."
Some critics say the program definitely crosses the line between church and state, with some minority religious groups shut out of participation because few mosques or synagogues exist in the area. And atheists would have no option, Rowland said, but to pick another alternative sentencing program.
Rowland said the Bay Minette ROC project is the only one of its kind in the country, but online searches show others have been tried. A similar program in London, Ky., drew headlines in 2004, and before that a judge in Lake Charles, La., was eventually suspended for ethics violations stemming from sentencing defendants to church, according to a Louisiana Supreme Court ruling in 1994.
"The biggest question or complaint we have had is about separation of church and state," Rowland said. "Those issues won’t come to the forefront because the offenders are not being forced to attend church, and what religion they choose is really up to them. We even have provisions for people who are from out of town to choose a place to worship in their own communities."
Rowland said he was doubtful, however, that an atheist would choose to participate in the ROC program, but would be able to choose community service or other options.
The ACLU is "considering options for response," Turner said.
"There isn’t a real choice here," she said. "This policy completely entangles government with religion, and is an abuse of power because it coerces people into religious exercise."

Does anyone else think that this is beyond messed up?
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Kalysk
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Postby Kalysk » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:20 pm

Well-meaning intentions, but they're going about it in the entirely wrong way.
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Postby Nightkill the Emperor » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:23 pm

This is stupid.
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Allanea
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Postby Allanea » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:24 pm

What do atheist/agnostic criminals do?
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Trussvania
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Postby Trussvania » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:24 pm

Kalysk wrote:Well-meaning intentions, but they're going about it in the entirely wrong way.

Agreed.

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The Ben Boys
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Postby The Ben Boys » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:25 pm

Kalysk wrote:Well-meaning intentions, but they're going about it in the entirely wrong way.

Agreed. It isn't theocratic, it's trying to rehabilitate criminals without using state funding. I'll give them a point for creativity, I guess.


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Fortunatopia
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Postby Fortunatopia » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:26 pm

Allanea wrote:What do atheist/agnostic criminals do?

Convert. :eyebrow:

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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:29 pm

Fuck, that sounds better than prison or a fine to me.
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Gilfersgrad
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Postby Gilfersgrad » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:29 pm

This makes me ashamed to live in Alabama. :( :palm:
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:29 pm

Allanea wrote:What do atheist/agnostic criminals do?

Same thing. As a matter of fact, they're probably part of the point.
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New Manvir
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Postby New Manvir » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:31 pm

And people are worried about Muslims and Sharia Law, America should be worrying about it's own home-grown Taliban. Hopefully the ACLU will kick this laws ass.

Allanea wrote:What do atheist/agnostic criminals do?


Stay in jail because they're filthy heathens and Alabama's upstanding moral communities don't want them, obviously.
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Postby Four-sided Triangles » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:31 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:Fuck, that sounds better than prison or a fine to me.


You've clearly never been to a Catholic mass.

That being said, I don't even care anymore. I can't give a fuck about the world anymore. It's just too fucked. I would lose my mind if I cared. The only way I've managed to keep sane is to stop giving a shit and only dabble in caring every once and a while.
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Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:32 pm

Allanea wrote:What do atheist/agnostic criminals do?


Go to jail, and get extra time because they refuse to attend religious services.
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The Ben Boys
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Postby The Ben Boys » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:33 pm

New Manvir wrote:And people are worried about Muslims and Sharia Law, America should be worrying about it's own home-grown Taliban. Hopefully the ACLU will kick this laws ass.

Allanea wrote:What do atheist/agnostic criminals do?


Stay in jail because they're filthy heathens and Alabama's upstanding moral communities don't want them, obviously.

Actually, they have been Democratic since it's inception, except for three Republicans and a Military commander during the reconstruction. I don't see how they would support this, though.


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Soviet Haaregrad
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Postby Soviet Haaregrad » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:33 pm

New Manvir wrote:And people are worried about Muslims and Sharia Law, America should be worrying about it's own home-grown Taliban.


But they're good Christian radicals just looking to glorify our lord and saviour, not scary foreigners with evil ungodly religions.
I reserve the right to ignore wank, furries/scalies, elves, magic, other fantasy vermin & absurd populations. Haters gonna hate.
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:34 pm

Four-sided Triangles wrote:You've clearly never been to a Catholic mass.


I have, but I doubt those would be preferred by Alabama.
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Postby Vazdania » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:35 pm

I think that this is a good idea, BUT! The jail system needs to make sure the people who are going to do this problem are people who are trying to return to a normal life. I am opposed if they are just doing this with mr. stab-people-cuz-I-want-to-and-dont-care. So...I guess I am FOR it with some restrictions/regulation on who can do it.
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The Ben Boys
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Postby The Ben Boys » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:35 pm

Soviet Haaregrad wrote:
New Manvir wrote:And people are worried about Muslims and Sharia Law, America should be worrying about it's own home-grown Taliban.


But they're good Christian radicals just looking to glorify our lord and saviour, not scary foreigners with evil ungodly religions.

Read my comment above yours; I see it more as a stereotype than the actual thing.


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Occupied Deutschland
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:37 pm

Yeah, this is BS.
Perhaps if the program included some kind of option for every other religion out there AS WELL as just flat-out study of ethics or something like that it would make sense, but as it is?
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Zanarkenisia
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Postby Zanarkenisia » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:39 pm

Soviet Haaregrad wrote:
New Manvir wrote:And people are worried about Muslims and Sharia Law, America should be worrying about it's own home-grown Taliban.


But they're good Christian radicals just looking to glorify our lord and saviour, not scary foreigners with evil ungodly religions.

They are not forcing it on them, they are giving people the option, still a bit silly though, should include a years worth of community service as a third secular alternative.

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New Manvir
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Postby New Manvir » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:39 pm

The Ben Boys wrote:
New Manvir wrote:And people are worried about Muslims and Sharia Law, America should be worrying about it's own home-grown Taliban. Hopefully the ACLU will kick this laws ass.



Stay in jail because they're filthy heathens and Alabama's upstanding moral communities don't want them, obviously.

Actually, they have been Democratic since it's inception, except for three Republicans and a Military commander during the reconstruction. I don't see how they would support this, though.


You assume I'm talking about political parties.

How about we play Mad Libs?

______________ is a populist right-wing movement characterized by excessive nationalism and religious extremism, now who does that sound like to you?
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Postby Aurora-Nova » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:39 pm

I like the idea; unfortunately, I also don't like forcing religion on people. If there was more religious diversification, and opportunities to attend mosques, synagogues, Buddhist or Hindu temples, etc., then I'd not be so critical. Go get 'em, ACLU.
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:39 pm

Four-sided Triangles wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Fuck, that sounds better than prison or a fine to me.


You've clearly never been to a Catholic mass.

You are completely correct sir.
Although, I'm not sure sending prisoners to a Catholic Mass would be allowable either. Cruel and unusual punishment and all that ;)
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The Ben Boys
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Postby The Ben Boys » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:40 pm

New Manvir wrote:
The Ben Boys wrote:Actually, they have been Democratic since it's inception, except for three Republicans and a Military commander during the reconstruction. I don't see how they would support this, though.


You assume I'm talking about political parties.

How about we play Mad Libs?

______________ is a populist right-wing movement characterized by excessive nationalism and religious extremism, now who does that sound like to you?

Like the Catholic Church, honestly.


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New Manvir
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Postby New Manvir » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:40 pm

Zanarkenisia wrote:
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:
But they're good Christian radicals just looking to glorify our lord and saviour, not scary foreigners with evil ungodly religions.

They are not forcing it on them, they are giving people the option, still a bit silly though, should include a years worth of community service as a third secular alternative.


It shouldn't be there at all, religion has absolutely no place in secular law.
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Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, citizen ownership of equity, or any combination of these. There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them. They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.

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