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Does wealth equal to greed?

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Ahtreil
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Does wealth equal to greed?

Postby Ahtreil » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:04 am

Yes, i wanna talk about ''rich capitalist pigs'' with you guys/girls/ponys, like that has never happened before...

I was talking with a friend on Messenger about tax raises for the rich, and about wealthy people in general. Her point was that rich people where generous, and she said that if rich people wheren't generous, they wouldn't be rich at all. My point was kind off opposite, That rich people have loads of money because they wanted it and keep it to themselves. But what about you? Do you think that all rich people only do things for their own good, or do you think any differently?

(Yes, i know this thread will end fast and that there is an easy answer, but i still want to talk about for some reason...)
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Sovereign Rulers
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Postby Sovereign Rulers » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:17 am

You don't get rich by being generous, for instance, if you own a company and pay your workers too high you would get outcompeted. Neither do you get rich by simply saving part of your income, but I guess it depends on what you define as rich.
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Iron Chariots
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Postby Iron Chariots » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:20 am

Wealth does not equal greed, but it encourages it, just as greed encourages wealth.
Thus we create an endless cycle of wealth encouraging greed, causing the accumulation of yet more wealth and the reinforcement of the value of greed.

So not all wealthy people are greedy, but greed is more common the wealthier you are.
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Terbizond
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Postby Terbizond » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:23 am

Wealth is a wonderful thing, as long as everybody has it....
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OMGeverynameistaken
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Postby OMGeverynameistaken » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:24 am

Terbizond wrote:Wealth is a wonderful thing, as long as everybody has it....

I think you're misunderstanding something there...
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Thalam
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Postby Thalam » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:28 am

I don't think it is a question of greed rather than rich people and companies simply being good capitalists by making and retaining as much of a profit as they can. Greed is inherently built in to capitalism so you could perhaps question if they are morally responsible, or simply acting as the system is set up to make them.

Either way though there is definitely greed present. You can see it in the "screw you, got mine" attitude that a lot of conservatives and libertarians have.

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Neo-Sovietnavia
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Postby Neo-Sovietnavia » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:28 am

OMGeverynameistaken wrote:
Terbizond wrote:Wealth is a wonderful thing, as long as everybody has it....

I think you're misunderstanding something there...


Nope; there's enough resources to this day for the whole earth to live on. It's just the distribution favors those who needs more luxury (luxury is a basis of life btw) then they actually need, and such let's the rest of us in the dump.
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MariVelasca
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Postby MariVelasca » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:30 am

Not really. When I was a young'ne I worked for an independent oil company, the owner didn't pay well when compared to other companies, and he flaunted his wealth. I'm good friends with the principle of a very large high school, he makes quite a bit of money, but he's incredibly humble, he only wishes to provide well for his family, and we volunteer together quite often.

So, wealth doesn't always equal to greed. It's how you're raised, how you're influenced by those around you, and based on your own standard of greed.
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Zeth Rekia
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Postby Zeth Rekia » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:32 am

Some of the richest people Zeno knows are are heartless bastards who thrive off of people's suffering.

That's where all the money is.

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Volnotova
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Postby Volnotova » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:36 am

Lolwut...

How do you get rich by generosity?

:eyebrow:

And no, wealth does not equal the desire for it.

That said, wealth is not a particularly motivating factor for me.
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The Merchant Republics
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Postby The Merchant Republics » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:37 am

A cousin of mine pulls down a +$500,000 income (he owns a chain of industrial bakeries in Ontario) he donates 90% of his income after tax to charity, he lives comfortably and he has his pet comforts but I'd say he's the furthest thing from greedy out there.

Now that's an exceptional case but the simple fact is that many earn far more money then they'd ever have use for unless they gave generously to charity.

But I'll get more to the point, does getting rich require you to be greedy? The answer is simply no. As anyone whose ever been in business will tell you, you don't make money by being greedy you make it by giving people the best deal possible, the highest quality for the lowest price. The rich in order to become rich must work to the benefit of their society.
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OMGeverynameistaken
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Postby OMGeverynameistaken » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:39 am

Neo-Sovietnavia wrote:
OMGeverynameistaken wrote:I think you're misunderstanding something there...


Nope; there's enough resources to this day for the whole earth to live on. It's just the distribution favors those who needs more luxury (luxury is a basis of life btw) then they actually need, and such let's the rest of us in the dump.

I don't disagree that the world would be a better place if everybody had their fair share, but to be wealthy, you have to have more than somebody else.

At least, that's how I see it.
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Hippostania
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Postby Hippostania » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:40 am

Wealth means that you are successful.
Last edited by Hippostania on Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Merchant Republics
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Postby The Merchant Republics » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:41 am

Volnotova wrote:Lolwut...

How do you get rich by generosity?

:eyebrow:

And no, wealth does not equal the desire for it.

That said, wealth is not a particularly motivating factor for me.

James J Hill did.

He gave out very charitable (sometimes interest free) loans and rock bottom rates for the use of his railway to struggling farmers and lumberjacks all across the American Midwest, loans that returned thousand-fold when they started making money again. And he got all their freight traffic.
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In short: Elitist Wicked Cultured Free Market Anarchists living in a Diesel-Deco World.

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:44 am

Hippostania wrote:Wealth means that you are successful.


... At ripping everybody else off.

I don't think wealth = greed.

Unfortunately, though, a lot of greedy people are wealthy. And they won't stop trying to increase their wealth.
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Red Indus
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Postby Red Indus » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:44 am

Terbizond wrote:Wealth is a wonderful thing, as long as everybody has it....

how about if there is a lot of wealth and no one has it, does that work too?

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Zeth Rekia
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Postby Zeth Rekia » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:46 am

Red Indus wrote:
Terbizond wrote:Wealth is a wonderful thing, as long as everybody has it....

how about if there is a lot of wealth and no one has it, does that work too?

Mind games.

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The Merchant Republics
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Postby The Merchant Republics » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:48 am

Neo-Sovietnavia wrote:
OMGeverynameistaken wrote:I think you're misunderstanding something there...


Nope; there's enough resources to this day for the whole earth to live on. It's just the distribution favors those who needs more luxury (luxury is a basis of life btw) then they actually need, and such let's the rest of us in the dump.

False objectively false.

Right now if the world's income were to be shared equally, we would be living scarcely better than a typical rural Chinese farmer, that is, not very good.

Further the distribution of wealth is not a zero sum game you can benefit without hurting your neighbor, indeed more than that your benefit benefits your neighbor too: you see the fact of the matter is that wealth cannot simply be "shared" because wealth is in production if we made everyone share their wealth equally industry would screech to a grinding halt and we'd all be living in dismal poverty.
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In short: Elitist Wicked Cultured Free Market Anarchists living in a Diesel-Deco World.

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Red Indus
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Postby Red Indus » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:48 am

Zeth Rekia wrote:
Red Indus wrote:how about if there is a lot of wealth and no one has it, does that work too?

Mind games.

I am hoping to achieve it in my nation state, along with moderate to high civil rights.

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Vestr-Norig
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Postby Vestr-Norig » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:49 am

Rich people should be taxed MUCH more than they do. I believe, that nobody really should own that much money, and have a too big boat, house, etc. I believe resources should be much more equaly shared than it is in any nation today.
Last edited by Vestr-Norig on Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Volnotova
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Postby Volnotova » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:51 am

Hippostania wrote:Wealth means that you are successful.


"Get's 100 million inheritance"

Doingitright amright?

Vestr-Norig wrote:Rich people should be taxed MUCH more than they do. I believe, that nobody really should have too many money, too big boat, house, etc, but that the resources should be more equaly shared.


Is there any reason why you support that besides pure jealousy?
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The Merchant Republics
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Postby The Merchant Republics » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:52 am

The Rich Port wrote:
Hippostania wrote:Wealth means that you are successful.


... At ripping everybody else off.

I don't think wealth = greed.

Unfortunately, though, a lot of greedy people are wealthy. And they won't stop trying to increase their wealth.

Every exchange is made on cost/benefit terms, there isn't a way to have commerce that doesn't include people perceiving themselves better off for each trade.

The real "magic" of capitalism is that it forces the rich to exchange value for value to make their wealth, they are greedy sure but they benefit us with their greed, in contrast Rich Port, a non-commercial society would give greedy people the incentive to do they least amount they have to in order to continue taking from the largesse of their neighbors.
Last edited by The Merchant Republics on Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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We are the premiere of civilization, the beacon of liberty, the font of prosperity and the ever illuminating light of culture in this hellish universe.
In short: Elitist Wicked Cultured Free Market Anarchists living in a Diesel-Deco World.

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:57 am

The Merchant Republics wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
... At ripping everybody else off.

I don't think wealth = greed.

Unfortunately, though, a lot of greedy people are wealthy. And they won't stop trying to increase their wealth.

Every exchange is made on cost/benefit terms, there isn't a way to have commerce that doesn't include people perceiving themselves better off for each trade.

The real "magic" of capitalism is that it forces the rich to exchange value for value to make their wealth, they are greedy sure but they benefit us with their greed, in contrast Rich Port, a non-commercial society would give greedy people the incentive to do they least amount they have to in order to continue taking from the largesse of their neighbors.


Fine, let them be greedy and wealthy.

But don't let them keep the damn money.

Otherwise, this whole purpose of the commercial society is canceled out by the fact people are still starving in the name of making these few greedy hoarders rich is canceled out by the fact that only the wealthy receive most of the profit.
LAUGH, AND GROW FAT
FIRE. IF IT TAKES YOU TO BURN.
FIRE. IF IT TAKES YOU TO LEARN.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE DONE.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE BECOME.
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS.
YOU NEVER KNOW JUST HOW YOU LOOK THROUGH OTHER PEOPLE'S EYES.

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The Merchant Republics
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Postby The Merchant Republics » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:57 am

Vestr-Norig wrote:Rich people should be taxed MUCH more than they do. I believe, that nobody really should own that much money, and have a too big boat, house, etc. I believe resources should be much more equaly shared than it is in any nation today.

How big of a boat is too big?

Who decides how big I can make my house, if I build myself a house that is too big do you have the right to tear it down, in the name of fairness?
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Economic: Left/Right (7.55)
We are the premiere of civilization, the beacon of liberty, the font of prosperity and the ever illuminating light of culture in this hellish universe.
In short: Elitist Wicked Cultured Free Market Anarchists living in a Diesel-Deco World.

Now Fearing: Mandarin Lessons from Cantonese teachers.
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Primesnarf
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Postby Primesnarf » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:59 am

The Rich Port wrote:
Hippostania wrote:Wealth means that you are successful.


... At ripping everybody else off.

I don't think wealth = greed.

Unfortunately, though, a lot of greedy people are wealthy. And they won't stop trying to increase their wealth.


Only if those who are wealthy that ripped people off are cons.
Most wealthy people are not cons, but businessmen that knows the game of consumption. Its all about how you play the game, ripping people off only goes so far. Give a man a fish, he'll be fed for a day... so capitalize that fish for what's its worth.

Also, I would also have to argue that not a lot of greedy people are wealthy. Greed is the desire to acquire wealth while wealth is the status of how much you have. You can say, however, that a lot of wealthy people are greedy due to their desire to want more.

on topic, does wealth=greed? No, Greed is merely the desire, wealth is the amount; one can easily be greedy and not wealthy, one could easily be wealthy and not greedy. There are ways around greed with wealth, you'll just need to know how to play the game.
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