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Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

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Kyronea
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Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Kyronea » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:24 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8225621.stm

Missing US girl found 18 years on

A US woman found after being abducted as a girl in 1991 gave birth to two children fathered by her alleged kidnapper, police say.

Jaycee Lee Dugard and the children, aged 11 and 15, were kept in a "hidden backyard within a backyard".

Alleged kidnapper Phillip Garrido, 58, and his wife Nancy Garrido, 54, are being held in custody in California.

DNA tests are being done to establish Ms Dugard's identity, but meanwhile she has been reunited with her mother.

Ms Dugard disappeared in 1991, aged 11, from outside her Lake Tahoe home, apparently taken by two people.

El Dorado County Undersheriff Fred Kollar she had lived with the couple, isolated from view at a property in Antioch near San Francisco since the kidnapping.

"The tents and outbuildings in the backyard were placed in a strategic arrangement to inhibit outside viewing and to isolate the victims from outside contact."

The three spent "most of their lives" there, he said, adding that they had never been to school or seen a doctor.

Their identities were revealed after Mr Garrido was spotted by police at the University of California Berkeley campus with the two young children.

He raised suspicions because as a registered sex offender he was not allowed to be with young children.

Phillip Garrido has a conviction for rape and was paroled in 1999, according to the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.

He was called in by his parole officer for questioning, and brought the two children and a young woman he called Allissa with him.

During questioning he revealed that Allissa was actually Ms Dugard. She also confirmed her identity to police.

At the Antioch property, there was also a vehicle hidden in the backyard which matched the vehicle originally described at the time of the abduction, Mr Kollar said.

"It's a pretty spectacular story just to find someone like that. Someone we assumed was dead," said Bill Clark, a senior prosecutor in El Dorado County.

Jimmie Lee, a local police spokesman, said Mr Garrido was also being held for investigation of rape by force, lewd and lascivious acts with a minor and sexual penetration.

Under suspicion

As news spread of Ms Dugard's apparent re-appearance, her stepfather Carl Probyn told ABC News in the US that her family was now convinced she was coming back to them.

"I had personally given up hope," he said, saying that he just wanted to find the people responsible.

Mr Probyn was watching on 10 June 1991, as the young girl was apparently taken away by two unidentified people.

The incident occurred as she was walking from her home to a school bus stop in the southern Lake Tahoe town of Meyers.

“ She sounds like she's okay. I hope she's been well treated this entire 18 years ”
Carl Probyn Stepfather

Her stepfather - who initially came under suspicion in her disappearance and is now estranged from Ms Dugard's mother - has described how a stranger drove up and grabbed Ms Dugard, bundling her into a grey car even as she tried to resist by kicking and screaming.

Mr Probyn believed a man and woman were in the vehicle. Despite several false reports of sightings in the intervening years, Ms Dugard was never seen again.

"She sounds like she's okay," he said.

"She had a conversation with my wife and she remembers things. I hope she's been well treated this entire 18 years."

"To have this happen where we get her back alive, and where she remembers things from the past, and to have people in custody is a triple win," he told the Sacramento Bee newspaper.


I am...I am just...I'm not sure I have any words for this. The emotional side of me rages for some sort of harsh punishment towards the kidnappers, but the rational side of me forces me to ask, what sort of punishment can we justify for this without treating the crime with an emotional bias?

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Hydesland
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Hydesland » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:27 pm

Holy shit. And he had a wife? wtf?

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Bergnovinaia
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Bergnovinaia » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:27 pm

WOW! That's all I can say. The chance of being found 18 years later. 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. Probably evne more.
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Taeshan
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Taeshan » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:28 pm

Sounds great, good for her for being found, not for the raping and such.
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Samatolian City-States
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Samatolian City-States » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:30 pm

I feel he should be treated with due process of law, and if found guilty, sent to prison. Where he'll be brutally beaten, raped, stabbed, tased, humiliated, and ravaged like a savage for the rest of his days.
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Jordaxia
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Jordaxia » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:32 pm

Wow. The fritzl family sure gets around, huh?
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The Realm of The Realm
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby The Realm of The Realm » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:32 pm

I'm not sure I'd leap to the punishment topic at this point. I have to say there's a possibility that the kidnapper is a certifiable nutter, and his wife may be as well. I'd want a long time-out to assess this whole situation.

But I do wonder even more about the mental health of the kidnapped woman and two children ... and why they never escaped if there was nothing more than visual barriers (though that seems like an inference, not a fact) of "a yard within a yard".

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Georgetpwn
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Georgetpwn » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:34 pm

Execute that bastard!
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Barringtonia
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Barringtonia » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:41 pm

I'd just read and, just amazing really, 18 years!

I was just trying to imagine those first few days, the first few weeks, months until years have passed. The sheer terror as it happened must be immense, the hope slowly dying, just everything...

...and the step-father, living with the suspicion cast over him that, in some way, he was involved, how his marriage breaks down.

Just the lives ruined.

Just how weird it must be for her to come out into the world again, to somehow reconnect with who she was in some way.

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Virtud Tierra
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Virtud Tierra » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:41 pm

Yeah, I don't really understand why they didn't escape.

I mean, she apparently arrived there by a car in the first place.

It almost sounds like some sort of cult-like commune thing... Maybe they were brainwashed or got the Stockholm syndrome thing going on?

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Lucky Bicycle Works
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Lucky Bicycle Works » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:43 pm

That's odd. There is a similarity to the Fritzl case, in that after all those years the perpetrator doesn't seem to be taking measures not to get caught any more.

With Fritzl, it was one of his (incestuous) offspring getting sick and needing the hospital.

With Mr Garrido, it seems even less necessary for him to have broken his cover. It's almost like a confession?

He was called in by his parole officer for questioning, and brought the two children and a young woman he called Allissa with him.


He's on the sex offender register, and according to the article is not allowed to be around young children! So he brings them along to meet his parole officer?

I know and agree with the standard explanation for rape (that it's about power not lust) but in cases like this I have to suspect that some perversion of parental instinct is the driving factor. It's like he got what he wanted (children and grandchildren) and doesn't care if he gets caught now.

They should both be jailed for a long long time. Deprivation of liberty (on the scale of 18 years) is a crime which is right up there with murder and rape. And sex with someone you hold prisoner IS rape, regardless of age or mental competence. That's an imbalance of power which makes 'consent' impossible.
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Epicnopolis
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Epicnopolis » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:44 pm

I seriously have no idea why I'm thinking this, but I wonder what the most serious mormon's would say about this...

On the other hand. I'd seriously make him and his wife eat there own foot.
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Vietnam Empire
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Vietnam Empire » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:44 pm

Those two kidnappers should go to hell and death by firing squad (even though the US doesn't do those anymore)
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Gauthier » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:44 pm

Jordaxia wrote:Wow. The fritzl family sure gets around, huh?


The girl wasn't a family member, so not quite.
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Lucky Bicycle Works
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Lucky Bicycle Works » Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:55 pm

Gauthier wrote:
Jordaxia wrote:Wow. The fritzl family sure gets around, huh?


The girl wasn't a family member, so not quite.


But I agree with Jordaxia that there are interesting parallels.

For instance, the collaboration of the man's wife.
Last edited by Lucky Bicycle Works on Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Daistallia 2104
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Daistallia 2104 » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:20 pm

Virtud Tierra wrote:It almost sounds like some sort of cult-like commune thing... Maybe they were brainwashed or got the Stockholm syndrome thing going on?


Almost certainly a case of Stockholm.

Vietnam Empire wrote:Those two kidnappers should go to hell and death by firing squad (even though the US doesn't do those anymore)


Sort of true. Utah only banned it 5 years ago, but there are 3 men on death row there who could still opt for it. Idaho still has it on the books technically, until the governor signs the bill. Leaving Oklahoma with it still on the books. Last time it was used in the US was 1996.
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Lucky Bicycle Works
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Lucky Bicycle Works » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:31 pm

This might be off-topic, but medical means of inflicting death against the person's will (execution) actually seem creepier to me, than shooting them dead.

We trust doctors to do some pretty scarey stuff to us. We rely utterly on their medical ethics, and the knowledge that their ethics do not preclude deliberate killing against the wishes of the 'patient' is a very ugly thing to have out there, only to address the "cruelty" of violent death.

Shooting is quick, it is honest. It uses the tool of killing, to kill. Frankly, the only thing wrong with death by firing squad is the hard usage of the consciences of those who fire the weapons.
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You-Gi-Owe
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby You-Gi-Owe » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:24 pm

Kyronea wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8225621.stm
I am...I am just...I'm not sure I have any words for this. The emotional side of me rages for some sort of harsh punishment towards the kidnappers, but the rational side of me forces me to ask, what sort of punishment can we justify for this without treating the crime with an emotional bias?

Eighteen years, to begin with, in hard labor. The time she was gone from her family? Seems fair and rational.
Part of me wants to repeatedly waterboard this bastard and his wife, though.
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Louis Van Boxel Woolf
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Louis Van Boxel Woolf » Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:29 pm

Why do you think he went into the police station with her? He proboably had enough...
Hey she must've missed out on loads of stuff that we have today: Recession, laptops, mobile phones that aren't as big as a brick etc.
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Virtud Tierra » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:37 am

Lucky Bicycle Works wrote:This might be off-topic, but medical means of inflicting death against the person's will (execution) actually seem creepier to me, than shooting them dead.

We trust doctors to do some pretty scarey stuff to us. We rely utterly on their medical ethics, and the knowledge that their ethics do not preclude deliberate killing against the wishes of the 'patient' is a very ugly thing to have out there, only to address the "cruelty" of violent death.

Shooting is quick, it is honest. It uses the tool of killing, to kill. Frankly, the only thing wrong with death by firing squad is the hard usage of the consciences of those who fire the weapons.


They don't even use the traditional firing squads (in the states that still practice it) anymore for that reason. They have a machine thats rigged up with pre-aimed guns and the operators are out of veiw in another room or behind a curtain. There are 3 operators and 3 switches and only one of the switches (which are randomly selected by the machine) fires the weapons at the prisoner strapped to a chair.

I'd say thats more far more emotionally removed then poisoning done by medical professionals, they actually have to physically touch the prisoner (who is strapped down to a table and fully alert) to establish the IV and all that. I agree that deliberate poisoning or lethal injection seems less ethical, since these people take the hippocratic oath and are formally trained in ethics.

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RoI2
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby RoI2 » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:39 am

Georgetpwn wrote:Execute that bastard!

Why?
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Barringtonia
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Barringtonia » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:44 am

RoI2 wrote:
Georgetpwn wrote:Execute that bastard!

Why?


It would be interesting to perform an experiment whereby this story is presented to a sampling of, say, 1, 000 people.

The only question would be: what do you think? - and a short blank space for the answer, less that 100 words,

I'd like to see the difference between those whose thoughts turn directly to revenge on the perpetrator and those who consider the plight of the victim,

If I could break it all down by gender age and etc., I'd like to see those results,
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RoI2
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby RoI2 » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:02 am

Barringtonia wrote:
RoI2 wrote:
Georgetpwn wrote:Execute that bastard!

Why?


It would be interesting to perform an experiment whereby this story is presented to a sampling of, say, 1, 000 people.

The only question would be: what do you think? - and a short blank space for the answer, less that 100 words,

I'd like to see the difference between those whose thoughts turn directly to revenge on the perpetrator and those who consider the plight of the victim,

If I could break it all down by gender age and etc., I'd like to see those results,

That would be interesting. I don't see the point in revenge.
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EvilDarkMagicians
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby EvilDarkMagicians » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:36 am

RoI2 wrote:
Georgetpwn wrote:Execute that bastard!

Why?


If we execute him..he won't suffer in jail. :twisted:

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Christmahanikwanzikah
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Re: Girl Found After Eighteen Years Missing

Postby Christmahanikwanzikah » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:39 am

Jordaxia wrote:Wow. The fritzl family sure gets around, huh?


... Yeah.

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