Dear President Obama, DON'T RUN AGAIN.

[Wilgrove]

Obama needs to grow some balls.

A-fucking-men.

[Wilgrove]

Gary Johnson is not going to win the nomination.

As for Ron Paul, no he isn't. IMO, he's still bonkers though.

He is better than Obama on every single issue.

Foreign policy that actually makes sense. Economic policy that makes sense. Could use some improvement on civil rights, but head and shoulders above Obama.

Ok, Off topic here, but since when are you a Brony? Also, did they give you "Welcome to the Herd' thing yet?

[Sibirsky]

People change their minds. And his policies get watered down by the rest of the Democrats and the GOP.

That makes NO sense

If he did the bankers' bidding, they wouldn't be throwing all their money at the republicans, that should be simple to understand
If the republicans helped water down his "pro-corporate" policies, then the corporations wouldn't be backing the GOP
If he was a slave to the big money interests, he wouldn't be described as "anti-business" by the right
If he was a union stooge, why not try to pass EFCA back when it polled well and dems had supermajorities in both houses?

The bankers got what they paid for (TARP, bailouts) and then they got Frank-Dodd FinReg which caused them to switch sides.

There is no single "corporate" group. There are favored industry groups. The parties support and are supported by different groups.

[Francis Fitzgerald]

Obama has been a sour disappointment on many different levels. But I still plan on voting for him, not because I think we should give him a chance to "finish the job" -by far the most stupid of campaign slogans I've heard yet (fortunately it was adopted by some supporters, not the actual campaign). But because he is the sanest candidate out there, the least evil.

But I don't think he will win. I suspect the cynicism that he has helped create by being "more of the same" rather than an agent for change will result in his coalition's indifference and thereby contribute to the apathy that the general populace has for all things political. The Hispanic voters that gave him Nevada, Colorado, and New Mexico won't come out in the same numbers that they did in 08. College students, progressives, and idealists will feel that they can't change the system, because their last great hope has conformed to the very structure he so condemned.

It's not that they aren't out there, it's just that many of them won't be voting. And that's a big problem. And unless the market does a full 180, unemployment drops substantially, and everything appears to be getting better, he will certainly lose (in other words, please welcome the next President of these United States, Rick Perry...)

[Ashmoria]

What did they call that back in 2008? "Concern trolling?" Thinking that Clinton would have magiced away the problems is as stupid as thinking that Obama was going to be able to magic away our problems.

Bet you five bucks that Clinton would've gotten us the public option. Bet you five bucks that Clinton wouldn't have filled the Stimulus and Jobs bills with tax cuts. Bet you five bucks that when it comes to the Debt Ceiling debate, Clinton would play hard ball with the Republicans. .

it seems very unlikely to me considering how very much the republicans hate the clintons.

[Sibirsky]

He is better than Obama on every single issue.

Foreign policy that actually makes sense. Economic policy that makes sense. Could use some improvement on civil rights, but head and shoulders above Obama.

Ok, Off topic here, but since when are you a Brony? Also, did they give you "Welcome to the Herd' thing yet?

I'm not. I was approached for the 2nd time about some special thing, second season or something. And I liked the way that person approached me, and made the pitch to use the flag on a temporary basis.

Besides, Sitting Pretty (my ancap pony's name), will intimidate and strike fear and furious anger into the hearts and minds of my debate opponents.

[Francis Fitzgerald]

What did they call that back in 2008? "Concern trolling?" Thinking that Clinton would have magiced away the problems is as stupid as thinking that Obama was going to be able to magic away our problems.

Bet you five bucks that Clinton would've gotten us the public option. Bet you five bucks that Clinton wouldn't have filled the Stimulus and Jobs bills with tax cuts. Bet you five bucks that when it comes to the Debt Ceiling debate, Clinton would play hard ball with the Republicans. Clinton has balls, Obama doesn't. When your country is in a political chaotic mess that it's in now, you don't need Fluttershy, you need Rainbow Dash.

Oh please, all the liberals and progressives hated Clinton when he was president. From NAFTA to DOMA (and DADT) to Clinton's proposed mandate for healthcare.

[Wilgrove]

Bet you five bucks that Clinton would've gotten us the public option. Bet you five bucks that Clinton wouldn't have filled the Stimulus and Jobs bills with tax cuts. Bet you five bucks that when it comes to the Debt Ceiling debate, Clinton would play hard ball with the Republicans. Clinton has balls, Obama doesn't. When your country is in a political chaotic mess that it's in now, you don't need Fluttershy, you need Rainbow Dash.

Oh please, all the liberals and progressives hated Clinton when he was president. From NAFTA to DOMA (and DADT) to Clinton's proposed mandate.

Yea, but who presided over the biggest economic boom in recent history?

[Francis Fitzgerald]

Oh please, all the liberals and progressives hated Clinton when he was president. From NAFTA to DOMA (and DADT) to Clinton's proposed mandate.

Yea, but who presided over the biggest economic boom in recent history?

Yeah, but who at the time thought he was a turncoat? You misunderstand me, I liked Clinton's centrist approach to politics, but his "tough liberal" image is only recent. Prior to the 2008 election, he was hated by the left. Remember this is the guy who said the era of big government was over, who decentralized several entitlement programs through "reforms."

In hindsight, he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. At the time, he was a pussy, he compromised too much, and he was weak in fighting for the common man, unions, and the poor... now why does that sound familiar?

[Ashmoria]

Oh please, all the liberals and progressives hated Clinton when he was president. From NAFTA to DOMA (and DADT) to Clinton's proposed mandate.

Yea, but who presided over the biggest economic boom in recent history?

thats why the republicans have "smartened up" and now oppose every fucking thing that might help the people of this country do better economically.

[Aeronos]

2012 sure is gonna be interesting. And yes, to answer a small debate back there, Obama is economically illiterate. But then again, I don't know a single US president in recent times who wasn't. I mean, Ronald Reagan did his economics from astrology readings for god's sakes! If it weren't for Milton Friedman the US economy would've just stagnated further >.>

But yes, welcome back to US Politics. 2012 will see a rise in calls for increased interventionalism from the left and center, as the dismayed and cynical voters of Obama will be.... well, dismayed and cynical. Meanwhile the right-wing looks to be seeing a rise in calls for straight fascism. Unless Ron Paul gets a miracle ascent.

Either way, neither option is good. It's sad that people won't just protest vote or something (I'd personally vote Libertarian, much the same reason as I vote Libdem here). I have never seen stockholm syndrome applied on such a grand level than election time. The parties must love it that the fear of the other will keep their voters devoted and making excuses for them - doublethink raised to an art form :\

[Parti Ouvrier]

Yes, as little a fan I am of Obama, I think he should 'run again'. Democracy is having to put up with candidates you do not like, and if people think the current president of the US is insane or whatever, look at the Republican lot, Perry praying for rain? Bachmann believing hurricane a meesage from God? Come on, you cannot be serious?

[Nordavia]

As President George Walker Bush succeeded in getting re-elected, it should not be impossible for President Barak Obama to do likewise.

[Cannot think of a name]

What did they call that back in 2008? "Concern trolling?" Thinking that Clinton would have magiced away the problems is as stupid as thinking that Obama was going to be able to magic away our problems.

Bet you five bucks that Clinton would've gotten us the public option. Bet you five bucks that Clinton wouldn't have filled the Stimulus and Jobs bills with tax cuts. Bet you five bucks that when it comes to the Debt Ceiling debate, Clinton would play hard ball with the Republicans. Clinton has balls, Obama doesn't. When your country is in a political chaotic mess that it's in now, you don't need Fluttershy, you need Rainbow Dash.

Oh man, this is sweet, because I sure could use the money.

First of all, the mandate and not the public option was part of Clinton's campaign. So what we have now would have been her opening gambit.

Five bucks for me. I accept PayPal.

I don't see her being able to magic the congress into shit, and given her own failures early on to 'strong arm' congress into initiating a health care plan in the early 90s, I don't see any reason to believe that she's now super capable of bounding over a reluctant congress. There seems to be nothing to indicate that she is either against certain tax cuts nor that she would have been able to pass any kind of stimulus bill without some sort of tax cut.

We'll call that pending lest you can somehow demonstrate otherwise, but I'm thinkin' I have enough to go see a movie now.

On the debt ceiling debate she would have played hardball...what does that really mean, exactly? She would have called them dicks? She would have let it flounder with all the ill-effects of not raising it 'just to show them?' And this would have done, what, exactly? You don't think that the added damage would not be chalked up to her presidency in the same way any shit that happens ends up at that doorstep? What would this have accomplished, exactly, other than giving you some bravado to masturbate to?

It's an empty statement, no money exchanged.

Technically speaking, Obama has balls, Clinton has ovaries. But you didn't put money down on that one, so we'll give it a pass.

Regardless of how much I enjoy a program, I do not use its characters to decide who I want to lead a country.

The Republican's "No, fuck off" machine was designed for Clinton. That's who they thought was going to win, that's who they loaded up for. She's not a lion tamer. I fail to see what it is she would have done that would have made a reluctant opposition party that's been hating her for the better part of two decades act different, except even less because she, too, was going to sit in her corner and hold her breath until she got her way.


EDIT: Holy DeRailed Train of Thought - I seemed to have given an early indicator to an entirely different conclusion. I may have gotten momentarily distracted and started writing the next paragraph mid-sentence...fixed, I think. I promise nothing. Accept at all times my posts might be constructed like the Winchester Mystery House...

[Galla-]

Bet you five bucks that Clinton would've gotten us the public option. Bet you five bucks that Clinton wouldn't have filled the Stimulus and Jobs bills with tax cuts. Bet you five bucks that when it comes to the Debt Ceiling debate, Clinton would play hard ball with the Republicans. Clinton has balls, Obama doesn't. When your country is in a political chaotic mess that it's in now, you don't need Fluttershy, you need Rainbow Dash.

Oh man, this is sweet, because I sure could use the money.

First of all, the mandate and not the public option was part of Clinton's campaign. So what we have now would have been her opening gambit.

Five bucks for me. I accept PayPal.

I don't see her being able to magic the congress into shit, and given her own failures early on to 'strong arm' congress into initiating a health care plan in the early 90s, I don't see any reason to believe that she's now super capable of bounding over a reluctant congress. There seems to be nothing to indicate that she is either against certain tax cuts nor that she would have been able to pass any kind of stimulus bill without some sort of tax cut.

We'll call that pending lest you can somehow demonstrate otherwise, but I'm thinkin' I have enough to go see a movie now.

On the debt ceiling debate she would have played hardball...what does that really mean, exactly? She would have called them dicks? She would have let it flounder with all the ill-effects of not raising it 'just to show them?' And this would have done, what, exactly? You don't think that the added damage would not be chalked up to her presidency in the same way any shit that happens ends up at that doorstep? What would this have accomplished, exactly, other than giving you some bravado to masturbate to?

It's an empty statement, no money exchanged.

Technically speaking, Obama has balls, Clinton has ovaries. But you didn't put money down on that one, so we'll give it a pass.

Regardless of how much I enjoy a program, I do not use its characters to decide who I want to lead a country.

The Republican's "No, fuck off" machine was designed for Clinton. That's who they thought was going to win, that's who they loaded up for. She's not a lion tamer. I fail to see what it is she would have done that would have made a reluctant opposition party that's been hating her for the better part of two decades act different, except even less because she, too, was going to sit in her corner and hold her breath until she got her way.


EDIT: Holy DeRailed Train of Thought - I seemed to have given an early indicator to an entirely different conclusion. I may have gotten momentarily distracted and started writing the next paragraph mid-sentence...fixed, I think. I promise nothing. Accept at all times my posts might be constructed like the Winchester Mystery House...

Clinton.

As in Bill, I would assume.

[Faith Hope Charity]

Dear President Obama, PLEASE RUN AGAIN!

It would please me greatly.

Now if we could just get the Republicans to pick Ron Paul... (like thats going to happen).

[Cannot think of a name]

Oh man, this is sweet, because I sure could use the money.

First of all, the mandate and not the public option was part of Clinton's campaign. So what we have now would have been her opening gambit.

Five bucks for me. I accept PayPal.

I don't see her being able to magic the congress into shit, and given her own failures early on to 'strong arm' congress into initiating a health care plan in the early 90s, I don't see any reason to believe that she's now super capable of bounding over a reluctant congress. There seems to be nothing to indicate that she is either against certain tax cuts nor that she would have been able to pass any kind of stimulus bill without some sort of tax cut.

We'll call that pending lest you can somehow demonstrate otherwise, but I'm thinkin' I have enough to go see a movie now.

On the debt ceiling debate she would have played hardball...what does that really mean, exactly? She would have called them dicks? She would have let it flounder with all the ill-effects of not raising it 'just to show them?' And this would have done, what, exactly? You don't think that the added damage would not be chalked up to her presidency in the same way any shit that happens ends up at that doorstep? What would this have accomplished, exactly, other than giving you some bravado to masturbate to?

It's an empty statement, no money exchanged.

Technically speaking, Obama has balls, Clinton has ovaries. But you didn't put money down on that one, so we'll give it a pass.

Regardless of how much I enjoy a program, I do not use its characters to decide who I want to lead a country.

The Republican's "No, fuck off" machine was designed for Clinton. That's who they thought was going to win, that's who they loaded up for. She's not a lion tamer. I fail to see what it is she would have done that would have made a reluctant opposition party that's been hating her for the better part of two decades act different, except even less because she, too, was going to sit in her corner and hold her breath until she got her way.


EDIT: Holy DeRailed Train of Thought - I seemed to have given an early indicator to an entirely different conclusion. I may have gotten momentarily distracted and started writing the next paragraph mid-sentence...fixed, I think. I promise nothing. Accept at all times my posts might be constructed like the Winchester Mystery House...

Clinton.

As in Bill, I would assume.

What the huh?

[Aeronos]

Dear President Obama, PLEASE RUN AGAIN!

It would please me greatly.

Now if we could just get the Republicans to pick Ron Paul... (like thats going to happen).

Sadly, ponies would sooner fall from the sky than Ron Paul would get elected. The tyranny of the status quo is oft underestimated >_<

[Francis Fitzgerald]

Dear President Obama, PLEASE RUN AGAIN!

It would please me greatly.

Now if we could just get the Republicans to pick Ron Paul... (like thats going to happen).

I'd vote for Bachmann over Paul, and for me, that's saying something.

[Faith Hope Charity]

Dear President Obama, PLEASE RUN AGAIN!

It would please me greatly.

Now if we could just get the Republicans to pick Ron Paul... (like thats going to happen).

I'd vote for Bachmann over Paul, and for me, that's saying something.

But would you vote for Bachmann over Obama?

[Faith Hope Charity]

Dear President Obama, PLEASE RUN AGAIN!

It would please me greatly.

Now if we could just get the Republicans to pick Ron Paul... (like thats going to happen).

Sadly, ponies would sooner fall from the sky than Ron Paul would get elected. The tyranny of the status quo is oft underestimated >_<

Can we at least get Ron Paul to be chairman of the Fed?

[Francis Fitzgerald]

I'd vote for Bachmann over Paul, and for me, that's saying something.

But would you vote for Bachmann over Obama?

I didn't say Obama, I said if I had to select a Republican candidate, Paul would be my last choice.

[Keronians]

Dear President Obama, PLEASE RUN AGAIN!

It would please me greatly.

Now if we could just get the Republicans to pick Ron Paul... (like thats going to happen).

It'd be nice, actually.

Split the GOP vote, and that way Obama would win.

[Galla-]

Clinton.

As in Bill, I would assume.

What the huh?

Pretty sure Wilgrove was talking about the former President Clinton, not his wife, even though she actually devised the '93 plan iirc.

[Parti Ouvrier]

Dear President Obama, PLEASE RUN AGAIN!

It would please me greatly.

Now if we could just get the Republicans to pick Ron Paul... (like thats going to happen).

Well, I think it's rather likely that Obama will run again, not sure if Paul will get picked by the Republicans, they seem to prefer someone who prays for rain. Paul Vs Obama would be more interesting, but if I were an American I'm not sure if I'd support either of them. I'm glad I'm not the American who has to make that decision!