Flag Burning

[SaintB]

I'm a player and an administrator on a political sim and one of the major issues that has come up recently in the game is an anti-flag desecration amendment; however the people that support it are particularly only really concerned with the practice of burning flags. The topic has been on my mind so I came here to NSG to vent and pose the following questions.

Where you come from is it legal or illegal to desecrate your national flag?
What is your opinion of flag desecration? Does it bother you, do you do it yourself?
What counts as desecration in your mind?
and finally
Should we as individuals be allowed to express our outrage by desecrating our nation's flag?

I'm from the US and its still theoretically legal to desecrate the flag but many people do not take very kindly to it. I personally am not concerned if people want to destroy a piece of cloth with fire or paint or whatever when they are angry or to make a point and I think its a legitimate form of protest. If one wants to get technical people even desecrate flags for patriotic reasons: I've seen American Flag handkerchiefs... if blowing your nose on a flag isn't desecration than burning it certainly isn't, or flag undies... lets get our shit stains on the flag cuz we love our country! The entire concept of flag desecration in my mind is just stupid; the flag is only a piece of cloth that symbolizes something and I am far more offended when people try to restrict the things the flag stands for than I am when someone destroys the flag itself.

[Salvarity]

people can do what the hell they want.

I really don't care

[Lykosia]

-

[Distruzio]

Where you come from is it legal or illegal to desecrate your national flag?

Legal.

What is your opinion of flag desecration? Does it bother you, do you do it yourself?

I only find myself offended by the desecration of a flag I care for, I'm sad to say. I know that I should feel bad about those who would trample on the American flag but... I can't bring myself to care for the flag representing a nation that enslaved, butchered, and pillaged my ancestors and now bestows upon me the blessings of the freedom to pay taxes and be viewed as a criminal every time I'm stopped by agents financed by that taxation until I die.

What counts as desecration in your mind?

The same shit you imagine as desecration.

Should we as individuals be allowed to express our outrage by desecrating our nation's flag?

Are you implying that we, as a collective, should?

[Imperium Nova Roma]

If I see someone attempting to burn an American Flag, I will personally burn that man, and plant that flag in the ground.

[Farnhamia]

If I see someone attempting to burn an American Flag, I will personally burn that man, and plant that flag in the ground.

Which would be assault at best, murder at worst. Burning the flag has been declared protected speech, I believe, right up there with corporations given bazillions to influence elections. Turning the flag into clothing is far more disrespectful, and is, in fact, expressly forbidden by the toothless Federal flag regulations.

[Intangelon]

If I see someone attempting to burn an American Flag, I will personally burn that man, and plant that flag in the ground.

I will stop you before you get close to that man and have you arrested for attempted murder.

[Trixiestan]

If I see someone attempting to burn an American Flag, I will personally burn that man, and plant that flag in the ground.

I too value a piece of cloth with a perty picture on it over the life of a person.

[Intangelon]

A flag is a symbol. I leave symbols to the symbol-minded.

I'm happy to be American, but not proud. Pride is something that should be reserved for accomplishments. I did not accomplish being American. I was born here. I kept telling my parents to fuck in Paris, but I was but a twinkle in my father's eye and he was not attuned to my frequency.

A flag is a piece of fabric (or, increasingly, plastic...made in China, no less), and as such represents, but does not hold or trans-substantiate into the ideals that it represents. One may burn a million flags and never so much as heat up freedom. Yet murdering those who would burn an otherwise flammable piece of cloth is somehow the act of someone raised in a free society? Uh...no. Sorry. It isn't.

[Misterfisher minions]

I only find myself offended by the desecration of a flag I care for, I'm sad to say. I know that I should feel bad about those who would trample on the American flag but... I can't bring myself to care for the flag representing a nation that enslaved, butchered, and pillaged my ancestors and now bestows upon me the blessings of the freedom to pay taxes and be viewed as a criminal every time I'm stopped by agents financed by that taxation until I die.

Distruzio in southron mode... advance the flag of dixie! hurrah, hurrah!
Hardcore.

[Kleomentia]

Where you come from is it legal or illegal to desecrate your national flag?

Probably legal.

What is your opinion of flag desecration? Does it bother you, do you do it yourself?

Well, there are some flags i would like to burn. But i don't mind. If it makes somebody happy than why not.

What counts as desecration in your mind?

Burning, tearing apart, stomping, and other ways that are to abuse the flag.

Should we as individuals be allowed to express our outrage by desecrating our nation's flag?

Meh, yeah but i guess people will not like you much. And if they are burning a flag of the nation they are living in they why are they living in it?

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

Where you come from is it legal or illegal to desecrate your national flag?

Not illegal as far as i'm aware

What is your opinion of flag desecration? Does it bother you, do you do it yourself?

It's a pretty effective way to quickly convey ones dislike of a particular nation

What counts as desecration in your mind?

Violating a sacred thing

Should we as individuals be allowed to express our outrage by desecrating our nation's flag?

Of course

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

A flag is a symbol. I leave symbols to the symbol-minded.

I'm happy to be American, but not proud. Pride is something that should be reserved for accomplishments. I did not accomplish being American. I was born here. I kept telling my parents to fuck in Paris, but I was but a twinkle in my father's eye and he was not attuned to my frequency.

A flag is a piece of fabric (or, increasingly, plastic...made in China, no less), and as such represents, but does not hold or trans-substantiate into the ideals that it represents. One may burn a million flags and never so much as heat up freedom. Yet murdering those who would burn an otherwise flammable piece of cloth is somehow the act of someone raised in a free society? Uh...no. Sorry. It isn't.

This minus the bits relating to locations

[Druidville]

Flag-burners are sending a message: "I'm stirring up trouble for no good reason."

Anyone know if the Westboro guys do this?

[AETEN II]

Seeing that flag burning is the ultimate form of trolling the media, or hell, just burning any symbol, HOOORAH!
Just make sure that you happen to have a bunker or some other place to hide, as in every country, there will always be a large group of patriots who will try to kill you.

I believe that it whould be local, but make it illegal to televise it or feature it in any way, as the burning of any symbol will outrage a person somewhere. Just let an unhappy group of people blow off some steam by burning a bible, flag, copy of an important document, etc. Due to the laws of free speech, people should be able to do it, but to a point. Like that one crazy dude in florida who made a shitstorm.

Where you come from is it legal or illegal to desecrate your national flag?
In the USA, firstly I believe there is a heavy fine and possible jail sentence if I'm right, along with FOX news lynching you.

What is your opinion of flag desecration? Does it bother you, do you do it yourself?
I don't give a damn, it's a bunch of fibers arranged into a symbol, besides representing my country, does it have any worth to me? No.

What counts as desecration in your mind?
Burning, stomping, kicking, tearing, shooting, etc.

and finally
Should we as individuals be allowed to express our outrage by desecrating our nation's flag?
Sure, but I'd advise you don't televise it or you'll get MORE than fifteen minutes of fame.

[Chinese Regions]

Where you come from is it legal or illegal to desecrate your national flag? Legal
What is your opinion of flag desecration? Does it bother you, do you do it yourself? It is offensive but people should be able to do what they want
What counts as desecration in your mind? Dunno
and finally
Should we as individuals be allowed to express our outrage by desecrating our nation's flag? Yes

[Jaliva]

Any imposition on individual sovereign rights of expression I adamantly and unilaterally oppose. Any citizen should be allowed to burn (or fly) any flag they desire. That is how it is today in the United States; and if that culture of civil liberty ever changes or is restricted, I will be of certainty dismayed and concerned.

[Erinkita]

In my country, the law with regards to burning flags is the same as the law regarding burning anything else. If it belongs to someone else or presents a danger or happens during a fire ban, then it's illegal. Otherwise, go nuts.
This is how it should be. Legally enforcing any kind of standards for patriotism is deplorable in my eyes.
The burning of a flag doesn't offend me because I have no emotional attachment to it or any piece of cloth. I can understand that it may offend some people, but free expression is free expression.

[Decadeori]

Where you come from is it legal or illegal to desecrate your national flag?

Not sure what the law states it in America.

What is your opinion of flag desecration? Does it bother you, do you do it yourself?

Yes, it bothers me. It's a ridiculous practice that should be condemned.

What counts as desecration in your mind?

Anything you can think of.

Should we as individuals be allowed to express our outrage by desecrating our nation's flag?

No I don't. Flag burning is an unconventional practice and also barbaric.

[The Rich Port]

In commemoration of 9/11, I was thinking about flying a Jihad flag, to remind people the "Holy War" was still going, and that it felt like a sick joke to me.

If I can fly a goddamn Jihad flag, I should be allowed to burn the American flag. Thank God I can and have, but it bothers me there are so many laws concerning this infernal piece of cloth (or plastic, depending on the store selling it) and so many people who are not the police willing to enforce in their own way.

It baffles me the power symbols have over people.

[Decadeori]

In commemoration of 9/11, I was thinking about flying a Jihad flag, to remind people the "Holy War" was still going, and that it felt like a sick joke to me.

If I can fly a goddamn Jihad flag, I should be allowed to burn the American flag. Thank God I can and have, but it bothers me there are so many laws concerning this infernal piece of cloth (or plastic, depending on the store selling it) and so many people who are not the police willing to enforce in their own way.

It baffles me the power symbols have over people.

Wow. That is not something I needed to read.

[The Rich Port]

In commemoration of 9/11, I was thinking about flying a Jihad flag, to remind people the "Holy War" was still going, and that it felt like a sick joke to me.

If I can fly a goddamn Jihad flag, I should be allowed to burn the American flag. Thank God I can and have, but it bothers me there are so many laws concerning this infernal piece of cloth (or plastic, depending on the store selling it) and so many people who are not the police willing to enforce in their own way.

It baffles me the power symbols have over people.

Wow. That is not something I needed to read.

I have been damn near murdered over a flag.

I think I've got a right to complain a little bit.

[Erinkita]

Where you come from is it legal or illegal to desecrate your national flag?

Not sure what the law states it in America.

What is your opinion of flag desecration? Does it bother you, do you do it yourself?

Yes, it bothers me. It's a ridiculous practice that should be condemned.

What counts as desecration in your mind?

Anything you can think of.

Should we as individuals be allowed to express our outrage by desecrating our nation's flag?

No I don't. Flag burning is an unconventional practice and also barbaric.

How is it barbaric? I agree that it's stupid, but don't how can you commit barbarism to a piece of cloth?

[Decadeori]

The burning of anything is simply barbaric (in my eyes)

...and I thought you were more tolerant than that.

[Farnhamia]

In commemoration of 9/11, I was thinking about flying a Jihad flag, to remind people the "Holy War" was still going, and that it felt like a sick joke to me.

If I can fly a goddamn Jihad flag, I should be allowed to burn the American flag. Thank God I can and have, but it bothers me there are so many laws concerning this infernal piece of cloth (or plastic, depending on the store selling it) and so many people who are not the police willing to enforce in their own way.

It baffles me the power symbols have over people.

While there are Federal regulations governing the flag, none of them prescribe any penalties at all, and they don't have the force of law.

Flying a jihad flag - which is what, by the way? - may seem edgy and cool, a "sick joke," as you say, but it's more than a little juvenile, don't you think?