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Ted Kennedy

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Do you think Ted kennedy death is getting less attention then micheal jacksons

Yes
59
57%
No
7
7%
Don't care
32
31%
Other
5
5%
 
Total votes : 103

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Muravyets
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Founded: Aug 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Muravyets » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:04 am

Cybach wrote:

His eldest brother was President of the US. One of the most popular US Presidents to have ever served in office, and who always lands in the top 5 Presidents list.

His other brother Robert was also a Senator. Not only that. He was the Senator of New York. A much more prestigious seat than being the Senator of Massachusetts. However he wasn't just a Senator. He was one of the Presidents closest advisors. He was also the Attorney General first under his brother, then under Johnson until his resigning. Then he became a Senator again. Becoming famous in retrospect for being one of the first outspoken critics of the Vietnam war, long before it was popular to protest against that war. Robert then ran for President. After beating Eugene McCarthy he looked to be the primary Democratic Candidate. Analysts giving him a fairly good chance at winning the Presidential election. But he was assassinated before we ever would have known if he would have won or lost the upcoming Presidential race. Robert Kennedy was also one of the strong voices in the Civil Rights movement, after the assassination of President Kennedy, Robert Kennedy undertook a 1966 tour of South Africa in which he championed the cause of the anti-Apartheid movement. Robert Kennedy saw voting as the key to racial justice, and collaborated with Presidents Kennedy and Johnson to create the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964, which helped bring an end to Jim Crow laws.


Those two versus a Senator out of Massachusetts. Whose biggest political achievements seem to be failures in enacting immigration reforms and a yet unsure fate on his dreamed healthcare reform platform.



So yes. I am quite sure that despite the shorter career of the two elder brothers. Both of them were superior to Ted Kennedy in terms of success, achievement and prestige. Ted Kennedy was just the loser of that family. Not that there is much loser about being the Senator of a relatively minor state. However compared to his President and Attorney General brother, it simply doesn't cut the cheese.

Sometimes I think people don't hear anything that isn't in their own voice nor see anything they did not write themselves.

Forty-six (46) years. Over 300 bills became law that Ted Kennedy authored himself. Thousands of other laws had his hand on them. Those are federal laws, not Massachusetts laws. He saw landmark legislation that changed the rules on immigration, on gender discrimination, on voting rights. Those laws literally changed the face of America during the late 20th century, and all of them were authored or co-authored by Ted Kennedy. Not failures. Actual laws passed and enacted.

Wrap your brain around it. He was not an obscure backroom pol. He made a difference that his brothers were prevented from making. Whether anyone thinks it is a good difference or bad difference, the fact remains that he was one of the main movers of the direction this nation took.

Am I discounting Jack and Bobby? Not at all. But I am saying that I suspect history will elevate Ted above the "kid brother" status he was slapped with most of his life. And I think if you would look at reality, you might see what I mean.
Last edited by Muravyets on Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cybach
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Founded: Nov 10, 2005
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Cybach » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:33 am

In my honest opinion. He will still remain a footnote compared to his brothers. Is this correct or just? No. But he lacks the mystique, aura and grandeur that his two brothers exuded. People love drama and glory. It's why most heroes are not bureaucrats who spent their lives crunching numbers and getting things done to make sure the Kingdom does not go bankrupt, but the Kings who saddle the horses, ride to war and lead the charge.

It's perhaps a problem with society. However most people will remember John and Robert over Ted. Because the former were murdered in the prime of their youth. One as President, the other running for President. Ted did a lot of his work in the background, signing papers and then died of old age. Nothing dramatic and going out in a blaze of glory about it. A better example would be, Elvis, James Dean and Kurt Cobain are also famous for their untimely demise. It's simply how society treats such affairs.

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Muravyets
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Founded: Aug 18, 2005
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Muravyets » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:36 am

Cybach wrote:In my honest opinion. He will still remain a footnote compared to his brothers. Is this correct or just? No. But he lacks the mystique, aura and grandeur that his two brothers exuded. People love drama and glory. It's why most heroes are not bureaucrats who spent their lives crunching numbers and getting things done to make sure the Kingdom does not go bankrupt, but the Kings who saddle the horses, ride to war and lead the charge.

It's perhaps a problem with society. However most people will remember John and Robert over Ted. Because the former were murdered in the prime of their youth. One as President, the other running for President. Ted did a lot of his work in the background, signing papers and then died of old age. Nothing dramatic and going out in a blaze of glory about it. A better example would be, Elvis, James Dean and Kurt Cobain are also famous for their untimely demise. It's simply how society treats such affairs.

It's not fair or just.

It's also not a factual or a foregone conclusion. Basically, all it is, is you deciding to dismiss someone without, apparently, thinking about it much.
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Cybach
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Founded: Nov 10, 2005
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Cybach » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:43 am

Muravyets wrote:
Cybach wrote:In my honest opinion. He will still remain a footnote compared to his brothers. Is this correct or just? No. But he lacks the mystique, aura and grandeur that his two brothers exuded. People love drama and glory. It's why most heroes are not bureaucrats who spent their lives crunching numbers and getting things done to make sure the Kingdom does not go bankrupt, but the Kings who saddle the horses, ride to war and lead the charge.

It's perhaps a problem with society. However most people will remember John and Robert over Ted. Because the former were murdered in the prime of their youth. One as President, the other running for President. Ted did a lot of his work in the background, signing papers and then died of old age. Nothing dramatic and going out in a blaze of glory about it. A better example would be, Elvis, James Dean and Kurt Cobain are also famous for their untimely demise. It's simply how society treats such affairs.

It's not fair or just.

It's also not a factual or a foregone conclusion. Basically, all it is, is you deciding to dismiss someone without, apparently, thinking about it much.


What can I say? I'm a member of society. The names John and Robert Kennedy evoke much stronger imagery and strength then Ted Kennedy. But then again I am not an American, and I am not studying politics. Nor do I make it an express hobby of mine to extensively study it.

My father himself states that the most memorable moment in his youth, was when when the whole school went silent for 10 minutes after the news of Kennedy's assassination was released over the school loudspeakers. Mind you, he went to highschool in Canada. But then again he went to a Catholic highschool, as did many immigrant children. At a time when anti-Catholic bias was still very much alive in anglo-society. So I suppose the death of the first Catholic President was definitely an important piece of news. Hence he would without a doubt also elevate JFK over Ted without even giving it a second thought. I am sure it is the same for many other people.

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Muravyets
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Muravyets » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:46 am

Cybach wrote:What can I say? I'm a member of society. The names John and Robert Kennedy evoke much stronger imagery and strength then Ted Kennedy. But then again I am not an American, and I am not studying politics. Nor do I make it an express hobby of mine to extensively study it.

My father himself states that the most memorable moment in his youth, was when when the whole school went silent for 10 minutes after the news of Kennedy's assassination was released over the school loudspeakers. Mind you, he went to highschool in Canada. But then again he went to a Catholic highschool, as did many immigrant children. At a time when anti-Catholic bias was still very much alive in anglo-society. So I suppose the death of the first Catholic President was definitely an important piece of news. Hence he would without a doubt also elevate JFK over Ted without even giving it a second thought. I am sure it is the same for many other people.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I think it's rather thick of you to respond to a comment talking about what historians say they will record NOW that this NEW EVENT occurred, by harping on what we had BEFORE following the OLD EVENTS. But whatever. What can I expect from someone who is not a US citizen (or resident?) and does not study politics, but still dismisses Ted Kennedy's entire career as a few political "failures"? Obviously, knowing what you're talking about is not your "express hobby", though talking about what you don't understand seems to be at least an occasional pastime.
Last edited by Muravyets on Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Cybach
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Founded: Nov 10, 2005
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Cybach » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:00 pm

Muravyets wrote:
Cybach wrote:What can I say? I'm a member of society. The names John and Robert Kennedy evoke much stronger imagery and strength then Ted Kennedy. But then again I am not an American, and I am not studying politics. Nor do I make it an express hobby of mine to extensively study it.

My father himself states that the most memorable moment in his youth, was when when the whole school went silent for 10 minutes after the news of Kennedy's assassination was released over the school loudspeakers. Mind you, he went to highschool in Canada. But then again he went to a Catholic highschool, as did many immigrant children. At a time when anti-Catholic bias was still very much alive in anglo-society. So I suppose the death of the first Catholic President was definitely an important piece of news. Hence he would without a doubt also elevate JFK over Ted without even giving it a second thought. I am sure it is the same for many other people.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I think it's rather thick of you to respond to a comment talking about what historians say they will record NOW that this NEW EVENT occurred, by harping on what we had BEFORE following the OLD EVENTS. But whatever. What can I expect from someone who is not a US citizen (or resident?) and does not study politics, but still dismisses Ted Kennedy's entire career as a few political "failures"? Obviously, knowing what you're talking about is not your "express hobby", though talking about what you don't understand seems to be at least an occasional pastime.



Precisely sweetheart. I think as a non-US resident I can more accurately give a modest view of the present realities. As someone living in Germany, I can quite easily state that many people know who John Kennedy is. Many of them even Robert. Since the two were famous as a duo pack, being I believe the only sets of brothers to be concurrently in such high positions at the same time. Yet almost no one will know who Ted Kennedy was, unless they turn on the news now. Even then, he will probably fade away fairly fast when next week's dead celebrity hits the news.

If John Kennedy were to return and come to this country. He's probably not only be voted mayor of Berlin, but could probably make it to Chancellor. He remains one of the most popular non-Germans in Germany. Especially among former West-Germans. Judging by the fact that he has schools, streets and institutions named after him in this country. Hell he even has plaques. Whereas most would simply give a quizzing glance at Ted Kennedy and tell him to go back to where he came from.

Even from my time living in the US. JFK seemed a lot more of a presence then Ted Kennedy. I mean, whenever there was a 50cent coin, we all knew whose face it was on there. I have yet to hear of plans of a Ted Kennedy coin.

But we're not talking strictly politics are we? We're talking about the impact of certain politicians on society. So if you'll forgive my lack of knowledge in the small details of the great art of politics, I think in this small niche I can still hold a reasonable debate. If by thick you mean arrogant and confident of myself? Yes. That is a rather accurate description of myself. I am a German. Being an asshole runs deep in my blood. I mean seriously now, our concept of humor only revolves around the demise and pain of others.

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Brogavia
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Brogavia » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:03 pm

In completely unrealeted news, Whiskey sales in Boston drop 74% overnight.....
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Virtud Tierra
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Founded: Aug 11, 2009
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Virtud Tierra » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:04 pm

The Kennedy family is only relevent to the public when they die.

I hope they keep up the tradition.

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Muravyets
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Founded: Aug 18, 2005
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Muravyets » Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:08 pm

Cybach wrote:

Precisely sweetheart. I think as a non-US resident I can more accurately give a modest view of the present realities. <snip>

The content of your posts in the context of the thread demonstrate otherwise.

And I am not your sweetheart.
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Ashmoria
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Ashmoria » Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:59 pm

Virtud Tierra wrote:The Kennedy family is only relevent to the public when they die.

I hope they keep up the tradition.

thats an ugly thing to say. just which of the rest of the kennedys are you wishing death on?
whatever

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Brewdomia
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Founded: Jun 26, 2009
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Brewdomia » Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:41 pm

Ted Kennedy was one of the greatest senators in the history of the US. He will be missed.

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Muravyets
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Muravyets » Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:43 pm

Ashmoria wrote:
Virtud Tierra wrote:The Kennedy family is only relevent to the public when they die.

I hope they keep up the tradition.

thats an ugly thing to say. just which of the rest of the kennedys are you wishing death on?

It might be the ugliest of all the trolling remarks so far. It's the most bitter, certainly.
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Cybach
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Cybach » Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:40 am

Muravyets wrote:
Cybach wrote:

Precisely sweetheart. I think as a non-US resident I can more accurately give a modest view of the present realities. <snip>

The content of your posts in the context of the thread demonstrate otherwise.

And I am not your sweetheart.


Then I guess we'll simply have to agree to disagree, cupcake.

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British Prussia
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby British Prussia » Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:46 am

Well... This is depressing...
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Conservatives states
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Conservatives states » Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:11 am

British Prussia wrote:Well... This is depressing...


Sorry, this thread is anything but depressing. Ted Kennedy was shit, and although I don't wish death upon anyone, I'm glad he can no longer influence the government.
I'm an anarchist, and be prepared for me to turn everything into a joke, because in all seriousness. We got too many problems to fret over, just chill out and enjoy the ride, laugh when you can, fix what you must. When it comes to debates, I'll state my opinion, but as far as I'm concerned. If you begin to bore me with semantics, fallacies, or otherwise personal attacks, I'm gonna see myself out.
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Ashmoria
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Ashmoria » Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:21 am

Conservatives states wrote:
British Prussia wrote:Well... This is depressing...


Sorry, this thread is anything but depressing. Ted Kennedy was shit, and although I don't wish death upon anyone, I'm glad he can no longer influence the government.

yeah that rich philandering bastard fought for equality and justice. im glad THAT influence is over.
whatever

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Muravyets
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Muravyets » Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:09 am

Cybach wrote:
Muravyets wrote:
Cybach wrote:

Precisely sweetheart. I think as a non-US resident I can more accurately give a modest view of the present realities. <snip>

The content of your posts in the context of the thread demonstrate otherwise.

And I am not your sweetheart.


Then I guess we'll simply have to agree to disagree, cupcake.

Fine by me, cheeselog.
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Muravyets
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Muravyets » Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:12 am

Ashmoria wrote:
Conservatives states wrote:
British Prussia wrote:Well... This is depressing...


Sorry, this thread is anything but depressing. Ted Kennedy was shit, and although I don't wish death upon anyone, I'm glad he can no longer influence the government.

yeah that rich philandering bastard fought for equality and justice. im glad THAT influence is over.

Yeah, that miserable SoB actually got the voting age lowered to 18. I mean, what the fuck was he thinking? Obviously, only about the destruction of the nation. And that bullshit about getting the same funding for women's college sports as men's college sports. What a terrible influence that was. And all that time he spent getting body armor and armored Humvees that, you know, actually protected soldiers, delivered to our troops in Iraq. What a scumbag!
Kick back at Cafe Muravyets
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I agree with Muravyets because she scares me. -- Verdigroth
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Conservatives states
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Conservatives states » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:04 am

Ashmoria & Muravyets :palm:

I'm gonna end this before a mod has to come in here. You can keep your belief in the state, and I'll keep my belief in freedom. kthxbye.
I'm an anarchist, and be prepared for me to turn everything into a joke, because in all seriousness. We got too many problems to fret over, just chill out and enjoy the ride, laugh when you can, fix what you must. When it comes to debates, I'll state my opinion, but as far as I'm concerned. If you begin to bore me with semantics, fallacies, or otherwise personal attacks, I'm gonna see myself out.
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 6.63
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Cybach
Minister
 
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Founded: Nov 10, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Cybach » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:44 am

Muravyets wrote:Fine by me, cheeselog.


That's the spirit! ;)

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Unkerlantum
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Founded: Oct 17, 2006
Ex-Nation

Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Unkerlantum » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:25 am

Good riddance that bum just left someone to die Chappaquiddick anyone? Maybe now someone competent can take that old nutjob's place.

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Conservatives states
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Founded: Feb 26, 2007
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Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Conservatives states » Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:36 am

Unkerlantum wrote:Good riddance that bum just left someone to die Chappaquiddick anyone? Maybe now someone competent can take that old nutjob's place.


How about no one takes his place :P. Then we won't even have to worry about incompetence.
I'm an anarchist, and be prepared for me to turn everything into a joke, because in all seriousness. We got too many problems to fret over, just chill out and enjoy the ride, laugh when you can, fix what you must. When it comes to debates, I'll state my opinion, but as far as I'm concerned. If you begin to bore me with semantics, fallacies, or otherwise personal attacks, I'm gonna see myself out.
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 6.63
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38

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Ashmoria
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Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Ashmoria » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:13 am

Unkerlantum wrote:Good riddance that bum just left someone to die Chappaquiddick anyone? Maybe now someone competent can take that old nutjob's place.

the accident from 40 years ago had no bearing on how well he did his job.

which he did very well.
whatever

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Franberry
Diplomat
 
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Founded: Dec 09, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Franberry » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:25 am

the US senate is now facing a deficit of alcoholic old, terrorist-approving, rich fatasses who dont care about anyone else

plz fix the deficit mr.president
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Kanabia
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Posts: 546
Founded: Dec 08, 2003
Ex-Nation

Re: Ted Kennedy

Postby Kanabia » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:39 am

The Dead Kennedys have a new band member? awesome

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