Ted Kennedy

[Muravyets]

I never liked the Kennedy family's undue influence on the country.
The USA isn't a monarchy that should run by rich families. Ted Kennedy's case of negligent manslaughter being overlooked is a good example of that.

The Bush and Clinton family should stay away from politics too. We could have had a 32-year span with just two family names as presidents if Hillary Clinton had the next 8 years here.

Except that it wasn't overlooked. The history of that incident is covered earlier in this thread.

That said, I don't like political dynasties, either. That is why, although I am going to give Ted Kennedy his due for the work he did during his life, I have never been a fan of the Kennedys as a group, nor of the Bushes or Clintons.

However, a long time ago, I read an academic argument by some historian who I can't remember anymore, but he made an interesting point, namely that it is hard to avoid political dynasties because, like many other professions, working in politics tends to become a "family business" after a while. Just as you will have families in which many, though not all, members go into law or medicine or science or crime, so too, you will have families in which the kids will follow in the parents footsteps and go into politics in one way or another. In a democracy, ultimately it comes down to the voters, though. The Kennedys could put up as many family members for public office as they liked, but if people didn't like them, they would not get elected, and if people did not think they did a good job, they would not get reelected. In any event, family dynasties might not be good, but they seem hard to avoid.

[Free Soviets]

However, a long time ago, I read an academic argument by some historian who I can't remember anymore, but he made an interesting point, namely that it is hard to avoid political dynasties because, like many other professions, working in politics tends to become a "family business" after a while. Just as you will have families in which many, though not all, members go into law or medicine or science or crime, so too, you will have families in which the kids will follow in the parents footsteps and go into politics in one way or another.

i'd guess that politics actually has more of this than most other class-comparable professions (other than the actual family business, of course). after all, the keys to political success in systems such as ours are largely about connections and name recognition. connections are, of course, good everywhere. but it seems to me that the middle and upper-middle class' kids tend to float between the range of professions that go along with their class rather than do what mom or dad did. you don't get many families of accountants, but politics really is a good gig.

[Discount Liquor World]

I never liked the Kennedy family's undue influence on the country.
The USA isn't a monarchy that should run by rich families. Ted Kennedy's case of negligent manslaughter being overlooked is a good example of that.

The Bush and Clinton family should stay away from politics too. We could have had a 32-year span with just two family names as presidents if Hillary Clinton had the next 8 years here.

Except that it wasn't overlooked. The history of that incident is covered earlier in this thread.

That said, I don't like political dynasties, either. That is why, although I am going to give Ted Kennedy his due for the work he did during his life, I have never been a fan of the Kennedys as a group, nor of the Bushes or Clintons.

However, a long time ago, I read an academic argument by some historian who I can't remember anymore, but he made an interesting point, namely that it is hard to avoid political dynasties because, like many other professions, working in politics tends to become a "family business" after a while. Just as you will have families in which many, though not all, members go into law or medicine or science or crime, so too, you will have families in which the kids will follow in the parents footsteps and go into politics in one way or another. In a democracy, ultimately it comes down to the voters, though. The Kennedys could put up as many family members for public office as they liked, but if people didn't like them, they would not get elected, and if people did not think they did a good job, they would not get reelected. In any event, family dynasties might not be good, but they seem hard to avoid.

Well, I agree with you or at least that assessment. Its almost like they are selling a brand name "Elect a Kennedy/Clinton/Bush today!" and I think its an unaccounted influence that isn't regulated by checks and balances like the rest of the government should theoretically be. Who is going to vote for Bob Darkhorse when another dynasty protege is selling his household name? While I doubt anybody will be electing another Bush anytime soon, voters will associate the good name of a political family and cast their vote.

[Greed and Death]

I am surprised they haven't tried to pass the healthcare bill as a Memorial to him.

[Chrobalta]

I am surprised they haven't tried to pass the healthcare bill as a Memorial to him.

They only have 59 Senators now, and the more conservative ones are not on board.

[Greed and Death]

I am surprised they haven't tried to pass the healthcare bill as a Memorial to him.

They only have 59 Senators now, and the more conservative ones are not on board.

but you put something as memorial towards X it tends to pass easier.
Look at LBJ. He passed Kennedy's tax cuts as a memorial, then reversed them 3 years later.
Also the Mass Governor is Democrat, so I doubt he will fill Kennedy's vacancy with a Blue dog.

[The Naacal]

I'm no fan of the Kennedys, despite living in MA. But the most he could have ever possibly been charged with would be negligence of some sort. However he never was.

He's dead, he may have been I guess a political "opponent", but let the dead rest in peace.

What about involuntary manslaughter? His car, he was driving. He was driving under the influence. He crashed the car. He left her to drown. He then instead of immediately notifying the proper authorities so an ambulance could be brought to scene, instead waited a near whole day before contacting any appropriate authorities. I'd say, that kind of action might land anyone with less money and less political connections into all kinds of hell.

Yes, technically correct, but the DA did not charge him with Involuntary Manslaughter, or even DUI if I recall. It's all kind of academic now though.

[Geniasis]

I'm no fan of the Kennedys, despite living in MA. But the most he could have ever possibly been charged with would be negligence of some sort. However he never was.

He's dead, he may have been I guess a political "opponent", but let the dead rest in peace.

What about involuntary manslaughter? His car, he was driving. He was driving under the influence. He crashed the car. He left her to drown. He then instead of immediately notifying the proper authorities so an ambulance could be brought to scene, instead waited a near whole day before contacting any appropriate authorities. I'd say, that kind of action might land anyone with less money and less political connections into all kinds of hell.

He was one of the most corrupt in the buisness.

Clearly we don't agree on the definition of "corrupt".

[Chrobalta]

I am surprised they haven't tried to pass the healthcare bill as a Memorial to him.

They only have 59 Senators now, and the more conservative ones are not on board.

but you put something as memorial towards X it tends to pass easier.
Look at LBJ. He passed Kennedy's tax cuts as a memorial, then reversed them 3 years later.

In 1963, democrats had a firm majority in the house, and 66 Senators. In 1964, they were up to 68 Senators. Even in 1968 they only lost 5 Senators brining them to 62. - The current democrats don't have enough votes amongst themselves even if they ALL got on board. And I highly doubt ANY republican will hop on.

[Greed and Death]

They only have 59 Senators now, and the more conservative ones are not on board.

but you put something as memorial towards X it tends to pass easier.
Look at LBJ. He passed Kennedy's tax cuts as a memorial, then reversed them 3 years later.

In 1963, democrats had a firm majority in the house, and 66 Senators. In 1964, they were up to 68 Senators. Even in 1968 they only lost 5 Senators brining them to 62. - The current democrats don't have enough votes amongst themselves even if they ALL got on board. And I highly doubt ANY republican will hop on.

It will take a month at most for the Governor of Massachusetts to replace Kennedy.
the Dems will be back to 60. and a in 63' the main opposition to the tax cut was from the democrats.

[The Naacal]

They announced just about 20 minutes ago there will be a december election. Whether or not they put in an interim until said election is apparently still being discussed.

[You-Gi-Owe]

He was a bad man.

No. He wasn't. He made a terrible mistake which ended in a woman's death. The law judged him. If it judged less harshly than you would have liked, tough crap. It's too late for you to do anything about it now. And as I said before, it is my opinion that his entire life after that point was spent making restitution to society for it. The good he did, in Congress and personally, and the fact that he cleaned his act up and never had anything close to a similar incident ever again, balance the scales as much as they can be.

Well, yeah, it wouldn't be wise to temp fate with another crash and dead passenger. I mean, did anyone ever ride in the passenger seat with him driving again?

Clean up his act since '69? I don't think so. Ever hear of the "Waitress Sandwich"?
http://askville.amazon.com/waitress-sandwich-forget/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=57999913

[Free Soviets]

Ever hear of the "Waitress Sandwich"?
http://askville.amazon.com/waitress-sandwich-forget/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=57999913

guys, this looks totally legit!

[Muravyets]

Well, yeah, it wouldn't be wise to temp fate with another crash and dead passenger. I mean, did anyone ever ride in the passenger seat with him driving again?

Clean up his act since '69? I don't think so. Ever hear of the "Waitress Sandwich"?
http://askville.amazon.com/waitress-sandwich-forget/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=57999913

I really never thought it would be possible for someone to demonstrate that they have absolutely no personal integrity whatsoever just through the tiny window of their internet forum persona, but you've done it, YGO. You've proven it is possible.

The post above consists of a truly tasteless joke and a quote from some random forum comment linked to some random internet guy's personal blog. So here you are, Random Internet Guy, quoting a Random Internet Guy quoting another Random Internet Guy.

What a waste of pixels, typing, and electricity to run the computers.

[Bavin]

I dislike all politics. ("poli" = latin for "many" and "tics" are bloodsucking arachnids)
It would be remiss of us to forget Mary Jo, while rightly praising the good Senator Kennedy helped achieve. He was human (as was Michael Jackson), and it is important to acknowledge the good and the bad.

It actually is Pol (people) itics (art)

[You-Gi-Owe]

Well, yeah, it wouldn't be wise to temp fate with another crash and dead passenger. I mean, did anyone ever ride in the passenger seat with him driving again?

Clean up his act since '69? I don't think so. Ever hear of the "Waitress Sandwich"?
http://askville.amazon.com/waitress-sandwich-forget/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=57999913

I really never thought it would be possible for someone to demonstrate that they have absolutely no personal integrity whatsoever just through the tiny window of their internet forum persona, but you've done it, YGO. You've proven it is possible.

The post above consists of a truly tasteless joke and a quote from some random forum comment linked to some random internet guy's personal blog. So here you are, Random Internet Guy, quoting a Random Internet Guy quoting another Random Internet Guy.

What a waste of pixels, typing, and electricity to run the computers.

Pshow, twen't nothin' speshul. But seriously, I slave away at finding non-FOX links because I know how allergic y'all are to that as an info source.

[You-Gi-Owe]

Did you know there are 1,440,000 Google Hits for Kennedy + Waitress + Sandwich?

[Free Soviets]

However, a long time ago, I read an academic argument by some historian who I can't remember anymore, but he made an interesting point, namely that it is hard to avoid political dynasties because, like many other professions, working in politics tends to become a "family business" after a while. Just as you will have families in which many, though not all, members go into law or medicine or science or crime, so too, you will have families in which the kids will follow in the parents footsteps and go into politics in one way or another.

i'd guess that politics actually has more of this than most other class-comparable professions (other than the actual family business, of course). after all, the keys to political success in systems such as ours are largely about connections and name recognition. connections are, of course, good everywhere. but it seems to me that the middle and upper-middle class' kids tend to float between the range of professions that go along with their class rather than do what mom or dad did. you don't get many families of accountants, but politics really is a good gig.

hmm, it looks like as far as senators go this is actually a declining phenomena:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/09/ ... istic.html