Ted Kennedy

[Muravyets]

Aren't anarchist opinions always naive?

no

Your opinion is biased.

[Muravyets]

He was a bad man.

No. He wasn't. He made a terrible mistake which ended in a woman's death. The law judged him. If it judged less harshly than you would have liked, tough crap. It's too late for you to do anything about it now. And as I said before, it is my opinion that his entire life after that point was spent making restitution to society for it. The good he did, in Congress and personally, and the fact that he cleaned his act up and never had anything close to a similar incident ever again, balance the scales as much as they can be.

The fact that you would negate all the lives he saved by his work, all the lives he improved by his work, in your blind insistence on hating him does not speak well for your character. And you're not the only one in this thread I'd say that about.

It also does not speak well for your sense of right and wrong if you would class him as a bad man for one fatal car accident and thus put him in the same group as people who do wrong and continue to do wrong for their entire lives, who make harming others their main occupation -- people like bin Laden, or Cheney, and such. Those are "bad men". Not a guy who crashed a car and caused a woman to die, but spent the whole rest of his life helping the poor, protecting US troops in combat, expanding civil rights for the people, and fighting to improve the quality of life for others.

There's a reason why forgiveness is generally considered one of the highest virtues -- and not just by Christianity but by other religions as well as secular philosophies. It's because the refusal to forgive only keeps evil alive and pumps strength into it. It takes a single terrible fault and puffs it up into a grand evil that poisons the mind against more than just the one person it is aimed at. The refusal to forgive is a toxin that eats away at the world. I say this as a person who is not generally forgiving, either by nature or by choice.

I am a person who holds onto her grudges and keeps score down to the smallest detail -- but I'm honest about it and try to be fair. Forgiveness has to be earned with me, and it's damn hard to do it, but when the scores of good and bad even out, or the score of good totally blows away the score of bad, I will forgive. Not to do so would be unjust.

I maintain that Ted Kennedy made up for the death of Mary Jo Kopechne, many times over. And I despise those who would seek to use her memory to wipe out all the good he put into the world in the effort to make up for it.

[Free Soviets]

Aren't anarchist opinions always naive?

no

Your opinion is biased.

true, but i think most long-term NSGers would agree that soheran and chumblywumbly and bodies without organs, for example, are not ranked among the naive. not unless we are merely defining them as such due to their anarchist tendencies, at least.

[CHINGEYINABOTTLE]

He was a bad man.

No. He wasn't. He made a terrible mistake which ended in a woman's death. The law judged him. If it judged less harshly than you would have liked, tough crap. It's too late for you to do anything about it now. And as I said before, it is my opinion that his entire life after that point was spent making restitution to society for it. The good he did, in Congress and personally, and the fact that he cleaned his act up and never had anything close to a similar incident ever again, balance the scales as much as they can be.

The fact that you would negate all the lives he saved by his work, all the lives he improved by his work, in your blind insistence on hating him does not speak well for your character. And you're not the only one in this thread I'd say that about.

It also does not speak well for your sense of right and wrong if you would class him as a bad man for one fatal car accident and thus put him in the same group as people who do wrong and continue to do wrong for their entire lives, who make harming others their main occupation -- people like bin Laden, or Cheney, and such. Those are "bad men". Not a guy who crashed a car and caused a woman to die, but spent the whole rest of his life helping the poor, protecting US troops in combat, expanding civil rights for the people, and fighting to improve the quality of life for others.

There's a reason why forgiveness is generally considered one of the highest virtues -- and not just by Christianity but by other religions as well as secular philosophies. It's because the refusal to forgive only keeps evil alive and pumps strength into it. It takes a single terrible fault and puffs it up into a grand evil that poisons the mind against more than just the one person it is aimed at. The refusal to forgive is a toxin that eats away at the world. I say this as a person who is not generally forgiving, either by nature or by choice.

I am a person who holds onto her grudges and keeps score down to the smallest detail -- but I'm honest about it and try to be fair. Forgiveness has to be earned with me, and it's damn hard to do it, but when the scores of good and bad even out, or the score of good totally blows away the score of bad, I will forgive. Not to do so would be unjust.

I maintain that Ted Kennedy made up for the death of Mary Jo Kopechne, many times over. And I despise those who would seek to use her memory to wipe out all the good he put into the world in the effort to make up for it.

He was a murderer, he left her drowning and went to his lawyer. No matter how long your next post is wont change this fact.

[Pope Joan]

Crimes were alleged but not proven.

Complexion was a strange pasty white.

There was definite talent there but some strange behavior too.

many fans remain.

Who am i talking about?

Both of them!

[Farnhamia]

He was a bad man.

No. He wasn't. He made a terrible mistake which ended in a woman's death. The law judged him. If it judged less harshly than you would have liked, tough crap. It's too late for you to do anything about it now. And as I said before, it is my opinion that his entire life after that point was spent making restitution to society for it. The good he did, in Congress and personally, and the fact that he cleaned his act up and never had anything close to a similar incident ever again, balance the scales as much as they can be.

The fact that you would negate all the lives he saved by his work, all the lives he improved by his work, in your blind insistence on hating him does not speak well for your character. And you're not the only one in this thread I'd say that about.

It also does not speak well for your sense of right and wrong if you would class him as a bad man for one fatal car accident and thus put him in the same group as people who do wrong and continue to do wrong for their entire lives, who make harming others their main occupation -- people like bin Laden, or Cheney, and such. Those are "bad men". Not a guy who crashed a car and caused a woman to die, but spent the whole rest of his life helping the poor, protecting US troops in combat, expanding civil rights for the people, and fighting to improve the quality of life for others.

There's a reason why forgiveness is generally considered one of the highest virtues -- and not just by Christianity but by other religions as well as secular philosophies. It's because the refusal to forgive only keeps evil alive and pumps strength into it. It takes a single terrible fault and puffs it up into a grand evil that poisons the mind against more than just the one person it is aimed at. The refusal to forgive is a toxin that eats away at the world. I say this as a person who is not generally forgiving, either by nature or by choice.

I am a person who holds onto her grudges and keeps score down to the smallest detail -- but I'm honest about it and try to be fair. Forgiveness has to be earned with me, and it's damn hard to do it, but when the scores of good and bad even out, or the score of good totally blows away the score of bad, I will forgive. Not to do so would be unjust.

I maintain that Ted Kennedy made up for the death of Mary Jo Kopechne, many times over. And I despise those who would seek to use her memory to wipe out all the good he put into the world in the effort to make up for it.

He was a murderer, he left her drowning and went to his lawyer. No matter how long your next post is wont change this fact.

Then you had better pray daily to whatever deity you worship that you are never, ever placed in the same situation.

[Ashmoria]

He was a murderer, he left her drowning and went to his lawyer. No matter how long your next post is wont change this fact.

no

once that car went off the bridge he was not ever going to be able to save her. its remarkable that he could save himself (considering that he was drunk).

it was a horrible accident caused by his drunk driving. its a bad thing but no, he did not try to kill her or leave her to die when he could have saved her.

hyperbole does not help your case.

[Muravyets]

He was a murderer, he left her drowning and went to his lawyer. No matter how long your next post is wont change this fact.

It won't change the fact that you are lying in order to slander the reputation of someone who you are safe from ever having to answer to for your false remarks.

[CHINGEYINABOTTLE]

He was a murderer, he left her drowning and went to his lawyer. No matter how long your next post is wont change this fact.

It won't change the fact that you are lying in order to slander the reputation of someone who you are safe from ever having to answer to for your false remarks.

You meen he saved her from drowning? thats new news to me!

[Muravyets]

He was a murderer, he left her drowning and went to his lawyer. No matter how long your next post is wont change this fact.

It won't change the fact that you are lying in order to slander the reputation of someone who you are safe from ever having to answer to for your false remarks.

You meen he saved her from drowning? thats new news to me!

I mean that you are pretending there is no difference between murder and a car accident. You are painting Kennedy as if he deliberately drowned her to death and covered it up. That is a lie. It did not happen. You are lying when you call him a murderer.

[Farnhamia]

It won't change the fact that you are lying in order to slander the reputation of someone who you are safe from ever having to answer to for your false remarks.

You meen he saved her from drowning? thats new news to me!

I mean that you are pretending there is no difference between murder and a car accident. You are painting Kennedy as if he deliberately drowned her to death and covered it up. That is a lie. It did not happen. You are lying when you call him a murderer.

Quite right. After all, by Chingey's logic, Laura Bush is also a murderer.

[CHINGEYINABOTTLE]

He was a murderer, he left her drowning and went to his lawyer. No matter how long your next post is wont change this fact.

It won't change the fact that you are lying in order to slander the reputation of someone who you are safe from ever having to answer to for your false remarks.

You meen he saved her from drowning? thats new news to me!

I mean that you are pretending there is no difference between murder and a car accident. You are painting Kennedy as if he deliberately drowned her to death and covered it up. That is a lie. It did not happen. You are lying when you call him a murderer.[/quote]
He left her for dead tho. He didnt try to save her, and he didnt get help. Instead he went to his lawyers about it. Not saveing her life when he could have is the same as murder. He could have gotten help but he only thought of himself and becuase of that she is dead.

[Free Soviets]

Not saveing her life when he could have is the same as murder.

this very second, there is a child starving to death that you personally could have saved by sending some food to them.
murderer.

[CHINGEYINABOTTLE]

Not saveing her life when he could have is the same as murder.

this very second, there is a child starving to death that you personally could have saved by sending some food to them.
murderer.

You know what im getting at...

[Sdaeriji]

Not saveing her life when he could have is the same as murder.

this very second, there is a child starving to death that you personally could have saved by sending some food to them.
murderer.

You know what im getting at...

Yeah, that you're a murderer. We get it. We're all murderers because we're not all saving everyone that needs saving all the time.

Or do your stupid standards only apply to politicians to whom you are ideologically opposed?

[Ashmoria]

He left her for dead tho. He didnt try to save her, and he didnt get help. Instead he went to his lawyers about it. Not saveing her life when he could have is the same as murder. He could have gotten help but he only thought of himself and becuase of that she is dead.

do you know how long it takes to drown? the poor woman was most likely dead before he dragged himself out of the water. he had no reasonable chance to save her (other than not getting behind the wheel while drunk in the first place)

[You-Gi-Owe]

I maintain that Ted Kennedy made up for the death of Mary Jo Kopechne, many times over.

This is an interesting statement.

To make up for the death of MJK, wouldn't he have to save the life of someone in danger and including personal risk to himself? I'm all for forgiveness, but it's contradictory to ask for forgiveness while simultaneously justifying a sinful act of cowardice that led to a death. To justify and atone for such an act would require an act of personal bravery, which I have never observed from Ted Kennedy.

[Muravyets]

He left her for dead tho. He didnt try to save her, and he didnt get help. Instead he went to his lawyers about it. Not saveing her life when he could have is the same as murder. He could have gotten help but he only thought of himself and becuase of that she is dead.

And now you are lying again, and even more viciously. Not only are you claiming specific things happened in an event you did not witnessed -- unless you did witness it, in which case, why didn't you save her? -- you are also pretending to be able to read another person's mind. You are a fraud on this, and you commit your fraud for no purpose but to badmouth someone else.

[The Black Forrest]

I maintain that Ted Kennedy made up for the death of Mary Jo Kopechne, many times over.

This is an interesting statement.

To make up for the death of MJK, wouldn't he have to save the life of someone in danger and including personal risk to himself? I'm all for forgiveness, but it's contradictory to ask for forgiveness while simultaneously justifying a sinful act of cowardice that led to a death. To justify and atone for such an act would require an act of personal bravery, which I have never observed from Ted Kennedy.

So you stalk him?

[Muravyets]

I maintain that Ted Kennedy made up for the death of Mary Jo Kopechne, many times over.

This is an interesting statement.

To make up for the death of MJK, wouldn't he have to save the life of someone in danger and including personal risk to himself? I'm all for forgiveness, but it's contradictory to ask for forgiveness while simultaneously justifying a sinful act of cowardice that led to a death. To justify and atone for such an act would require an act of personal bravery, which I have never observed from Ted Kennedy.

And yet more intellectually dishonest BS. I stated specifically what I think Ted Kennedy did to make up for that deadly mistake. Now you can disagree as to whether his career did make up for it or not. And you can hold out different standards of what it would take to make up for such a thing, if you like, too.

But you don't get to try to put me on some kind of a spot with that "wouldn't he have to [etc]" guff. No, OBVIOUSLY, I don't think he would have to do what you wanted him to do, since I said specifically what he did and that I think that made up for it.

Also, you don't get to ensnare me in your little "Let's demonize Ted Kennedy" trap by suggesting that I am "justifying a sinful act of cowardice" or any similar hyperbole. I did not justify anything. I said that his bad act -- getting behind the wheel after drinking, which remains bad and unjustified -- is balanced out by his many good acts thereafter.

So hate the man if you want to. Badmouth the man till you get tired of it, if you want to. But don't presume to put your words in my mouth.

[The Naacal]

I'm no fan of the Kennedys, despite living in MA. But the most he could have ever possibly been charged with would be negligence of some sort. However he never was.

He's dead, he may have been I guess a political "opponent", but let the dead rest in peace.

[CHINGEYINABOTTLE]

I maintain that Ted Kennedy made up for the death of Mary Jo Kopechne, many times over.

This is an interesting statement.

To make up for the death of MJK, wouldn't he have to save the life of someone in danger and including personal risk to himself? I'm all for forgiveness, but it's contradictory to ask for forgiveness while simultaneously justifying a sinful act of cowardice that led to a death. To justify and atone for such an act would require an act of personal bravery, which I have never observed from Ted Kennedy.

True

[Cybach]

I'm no fan of the Kennedys, despite living in MA. But the most he could have ever possibly been charged with would be negligence of some sort. However he never was.

He's dead, he may have been I guess a political "opponent", but let the dead rest in peace.

What about involuntary manslaughter? His car, he was driving. He was driving under the influence. He crashed the car. He left her to drown. He then instead of immediately notifying the proper authorities so an ambulance could be brought to scene, instead waited a near whole day before contacting any appropriate authorities. I'd say, that kind of action might land anyone with less money and less political connections into all kinds of hell.

[CHINGEYINABOTTLE]

I'm no fan of the Kennedys, despite living in MA. But the most he could have ever possibly been charged with would be negligence of some sort. However he never was.

He's dead, he may have been I guess a political "opponent", but let the dead rest in peace.

What about involuntary manslaughter? His car, he was driving. He was driving under the influence. He crashed the car. He left her to drown. He then instead of immediately notifying the proper authorities so an ambulance could be brought to scene, instead waited a near whole day before contacting any appropriate authorities. I'd say, that kind of action might land anyone with less money and less political connections into all kinds of hell.

He was one of the most corrupt in the buisness.

[Discount Liquor World]

I never liked the Kennedy family's undue influence on the country.
The USA isn't a monarchy that should run by rich families. Ted Kennedy's case of negligent manslaughter being overlooked is a good example of that.

The Bush and Clinton family should stay away from politics too. We nearly had 4 presidents with just two family names if Hillary Clinton had the next 8 years here.