Is homosexuality a choice? (Improved OP)

[Geniasis]

provide a source that men can be taught to stop being attracted to young girls.

Why ask for something you know he can't provide?

Because some of us want to see him try and weasel out of it.

I don't think the attraction is a choice, but acting on the attraction is a choice.
It's not right or wrong, but that's just what I think of it.

It's really not any more of a choice than eating or drinking. Well, attempting to attract and pursue objects of affection, anyway. I wouldn't say the same about actual intercourse because I don't want to imply that rape is an inevitable urge. My point is simply that, if you have a situation where someone is unable to act on their attraction out of fear or what have you, then you're not going to end up with an emotionally balanced individual, which implies that--if not sexual intercourse itself--free expression of one's sexuality is more than just something you can choose to do or not do without disastrous consequences.

[KludgeMUSH]

provide a source that men can be taught to stop being attracted to young girls.

Well, it's definitely possible. I've done it before. People with their brains painted on the back wall aren't really attracted to anything anymore. Somehow, though, I don't think this is going to be a satisfactory solution to the "problem".

[Xirius]

I disagree. You describe the sexual orientation and the acting on it like it were the same thing. Who you are attracted to, at least on a sexual level, is purely genetic. Nurture only influences perspective and modus operandi.

In that case, if you were gay, and had a twin that was straight, your theory would be debunked.

Not necessarily. If homosexuality is caused by a combination of multiple genes and one of them is active in one twin and inactive in the other, their sexual orientation can still differ despite identical genes. And there is even a pair of siamese twins, joined at the head, of whom one is gay and one is straight. On the other hand whatever event activated or deactivated the gene could also be counted as nurture. In the end the nature vs nurture debate, regardless of the debated trait, boils down to the question whether it can be consciously changed or not. Which means that for the daily intents and purposes it can be defined as nature now and could be redefined as nurture as soon we find a way to activate or deactivate these genes.

[Bottle]

Things that we know, for sure, are not biologically pre-determined

Religious affiliation
Political orientation
Favorite food
Preference for the Beatles vs. the Stones
Stance on gay marriage

Who cares how much of sexuality is choice and how much is biologically determined, as long as everyone participating is a consenting adult? Why should we exert any more effort to try to change a person's sexuality than we exert trying to change their favorite ice cream flavor? If you don't want to fuck 'em, then don't fuck 'em...and bloody well get on with your life.

[Farnhamia]

Things that we know, for sure, are not biologically pre-determined

Religious affiliation
Political orientation
Favorite food
Preference for the Beatles vs. the Stones
Stance on gay marriage

Who cares how much of sexuality is choice and how much is biologically determined, as long as everyone participating is a consenting adult? Why should we exert any more effort to try to change a person's sexuality than we exert trying to change their favorite ice cream flavor? If you don't want to fuck 'em, then don't fuck 'em...and bloody well get on with your life.

One thing that seems innate in humans, as Mr. Twain said once, is "That desire which is in us all to better other people's condition by having them think as we think." Or perhaps better, he also said, "Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits."

[Pendraig]

It could simply be a neurological disorder, or a combination of an virus and a pathological disorder, that causes neurons to fire incorrectly, or a virus which has mutated an individuals gene code at an base genetic level, who knows hey, one day science may hold the answer, and possibly provide a cure!!...for those who wish to except it!

[Alqania]

It could simply be a neurological disorder, or a combination of an virus and a pathological disorder, that causes neurons to fire incorrectly, or a virus which has mutated an individuals gene code at an base genetic level, who knows hey, one day science may hold the answer, and possibly provide a cure!!...for those who wish to except it!

By your suggestions above it seems you have very little knowledge of anything related to science.

[Dakini]

Genetics + exposure to hormones prior to birth

Well, for men at least. If I'm not mistaken, there aren't a lot of studies about female homosexuality. Either way, it's not a choice.

[Dakini]

Things that we know, for sure, are not biologically pre-determined
[snip]
Favorite food

Actually, there were some studies that got women to consume certain foods while pregnant and when their children were born, the children showed a preference for these foods. There was at least one study with pregnant women drinking a glass of carrot juice each day and their babies liking carrot mush better than babies whose mothers were in the control group.

[Farnhamia]

Things that we know, for sure, are not biologically pre-determined
[snip]
Favorite food

Actually, there were some studies that got women to consume certain foods while pregnant and when their children were born, the children showed a preference for these foods. There was at least one study with pregnant women drinking a glass of carrot juice each day and their babies liking carrot mush better than babies whose mothers were in the control group.

Great, yet another reason for teenagers to slam their bedroom doors. "I HATE YOU! YOU MADE ME LIKE CARROTS IN THE WOMB!"

[The Mannan]

HGP has came out and said there is no gay gene so its definitely a choice

[Andaricus]

It's a choice plain and simple. Enough taking the Choice factor out of these things homosexuality is a choice just like anything else in life. Yes it's fueled by psychological damages such as abusive parents and being shunned by the opposite sex, ETC. But it's a choice just like everything else in life. The only reason there is so much stigma around this is because the "bad Christians" keep Ostracizing homosexuals for what they've chosen to be but there is no wrong chose in the matter. Look if You've made the choice to be a homosexual then just go with it and don't let anyone tell you what to do or that it's wrong. If you were truely secure in your choice to be a homosexual it wouldn't matter anyway.

[Dakini]

Actually, there were some studies that got women to consume certain foods while pregnant and when their children were born, the children showed a preference for these foods. There was at least one study with pregnant women drinking a glass of carrot juice each day and their babies liking carrot mush better than babies whose mothers were in the control group.

Great, yet another reason for teenagers to slam their bedroom doors. "I HATE YOU! YOU MADE ME LIKE CARROTS IN THE WOMB!"

Meh, better than children whose fathers started smoking before puberty: they're more likely to be obese.

[Dakini]

It's a choice plain and simple. Enough taking the Choice factor out of these things homosexuality is a choice just like anything else in life.

Did you choose to be straight?

[Farnhamia]

HGP has came out and said there is no gay gene so its definitely a choice

The Human Genome Project? I hadn't heard that the purpose and effect of every single gene had been determined.

[Andaricus]

It's a choice plain and simple. Enough taking the Choice factor out of these things homosexuality is a choice just like anything else in life.

Did you choose to be straight?

Actually yes, I did.

[Dakini]

Did you choose to be straight?

Actually yes, I did.

So you chose to be attracted to the opposite sex exclusively?

[Arkinesia]

Genetics + exposure to hormones prior to birth

Well, for men at least. If I'm not mistaken, there aren't a lot of studies about female homosexuality. Either way, it's not a choice.

Well of course there aren't lots of studies on female homosexuality.

Cos hawt lesbos.

[Andaricus]

Actually yes, I did.

So you chose to be attracted to the opposite sex exclusively?

Uhh, yeah what's your point?

[1000 Cats]

In that case, if you were gay, and had a twin that was straight, your theory would be debunked.

Not necessarily. If homosexuality is caused by a combination of multiple genes and one of them is active in one twin and inactive in the other, their sexual orientation can still differ despite identical genes. And there is even a pair of siamese twins, joined at the head, of whom one is gay and one is straight. On the other hand whatever event activated or deactivated the gene could also be counted as nurture. In the end the nature vs nurture debate, regardless of the debated trait, boils down to the question whether it can be consciously changed or not. Which means that for the daily intents and purposes it can be defined as nature now and could be redefined as nurture as soon we find a way to activate or deactivate these genes.

Nature and nurture is not the same as nature and choice, and when it gets down to it, it's not the same as genes and environment. Yes, environmental stuff does activate and deactivate genes; in fact, it can be argued that this is a big part of what nurture actually is. There's even evidence that stress actually modifies our genetic structure.

However, if one is going to argue that the only difference between gay and straight twins is gene activation, that's an awful lot of gene activation. Sixty percent of the time a gay twin is separated at birth from his sibling, that sibling will be straight. I don't have a source for this last bit, but I highly doubt we can attribute that much to gene activation and deactivation. It has to be by and large neural.

So you chose to be attracted to the opposite sex exclusively?

Uhh, yeah what's your point?

Can you then, conversely, choose to be homosexual?

[Andaricus]

Genetics + exposure to hormones prior to birth

Well, for men at least. If I'm not mistaken, there aren't a lot of studies about female homosexuality. Either way, it's not a choice.

Well of course there aren't lots of studies on female homosexuality.

Cos hawt lesbos.

Of course there aren't, being that those research results were fixed and men are of course the "Evil Phallic Boogiemen."

[Andaricus]

So you chose to be attracted to the opposite sex exclusively?

Uhh, yeah what's your point?

Can you then, conversely, choose to be homosexual?[/quote]

It's possible but I'm not going to.

[Dakini]

So you chose to be attracted to the opposite sex exclusively?

Uhh, yeah what's your point?

I'm just interested in how you choose who you find attractive. I mean, I've never spoken to a person who selects the people they think are hot. The people I know tend not to choose who they find attractive. Indeed, I'm pretty sure that studies indicate that attraction is initially subconscious. If you're bucking this trend, you should turn yourself in for scientific study.

Granted, everyone I know chooses whether or not to act on their attractions to certain people. Sometimes you find someone hot when they're unavailable (or you're unavailable) or undesirable in other ways, so you don't chat them up, but that doesn't mean you don't find them attractive initially.

[Arkinesia]

Well of course there aren't lots of studies on female homosexuality.

Cos hawt lesbos.

Of course there aren't, being that those research results were fixed and men are of course the "Evil Phallic Boogiemen."

That's…not what I was going for at all.

[1000 Cats]

Uhh, yeah what's your point?

Can you then, conversely, choose to be homosexual?

It's possible but I'm not going to.[/quote]
Do it. For SCIENCE!