Capitalisim vs. Socialisim

[Mongolian Khanate]

I still think you guys would have more productive discussions if you did Planned economies VS market based economies

But there would less people opposing me.

Having less cloud-shovelers would be an issue?

[Trotskylvania]

I still think you guys would have more productive discussions if you did Planned economies VS market based economies

But there would less people opposing me.

Sun Tzu saiz pick ur battles for maximum advantage

[Keronians]

It isn't. Note: investment. I am not using the word production anywhere.

Really, I think a comparison could be made with Spain after 1959, when it began receiving tons of American money in exchange for becoming an ally against the USSR.

The one-policy has ended now. Ended at the start of this year, IIRC.

As for the higher standard of living, that's precisely what their government can obtain, all on their own, without foreign dependence (not to say that having trade with the nations is bad).

No, China cannot improve their standard of living without anyone's help. Not in handouts, obviously, but through cooperative trade and investments. And it will still take decades.

Just as long as it will take to correct their one child policy. Actually, there was half a generation lost or so. That will never come back.

That does not require child labour. The economy will not collapse if children are made to go to schools instead of working long hours at dirty factories.

It will take decades. It's true, but my point is that China has the consumer base, and intelligent population, to make it happen without heavily relying on the West for trade. By all means, they should continue to export their goods, but not in such a way that they will collapse without the exports.

As for half a generation being lost, I never denied it. I'm saying that the "want another child" motivation no longer exists, since, they're allowed to have them now. They were idiots with their policy. No denying that. But for the problems associated with the policy to become apparent, it will take another 10-20 years, when those 30-40 year olds are in their 50s.

[Sibirsky]

But there would less people opposing me.

Having less cloud-shovelers would be an issue?

It would be less intense. I mean, I know several NSGers who are free market socialists.

[Sibirsky]

No, China cannot improve their standard of living without anyone's help. Not in handouts, obviously, but through cooperative trade and investments. And it will still take decades.

Just as long as it will take to correct their one child policy. Actually, there was half a generation lost or so. That will never come back.

That does not require child labour. The economy will not collapse if children are made to go to schools instead of working long hours at dirty factories.

It will take decades. It's true, but my point is that China has the consumer base, and intelligent population, to make it happen without heavily relying on the West for trade. By all means, they should continue to export their goods, but not in such a way that they will collapse without the exports.

As for half a generation being lost, I never denied it. I'm saying that the "want another child" motivation no longer exists, since, they're allowed to have them now. They were idiots with their policy. No denying that. But for the problems associated with the policy to become apparent, it will take another 10-20 years, when those 30-40 year olds are in their 50s.

Dude, you are missing the point. It's the Chinese government, that is sitting on $2 trillion or so in reserves. The typical Chinese family needs that extra income. They are poor.

The problems with the OCP are already apparent. Less taxpayers and employees. And a shortage of girls. Apparently, more first born are boys? I dunno, but that is what I hear. A shortage of girls. In the tens of millions.

[Sibirsky]

But there would less people opposing me.

Sun Tzu saiz pick ur battles for maximum advantage

I'm not here to win.

[Keronians]

That does not require child labour. The economy will not collapse if children are made to go to schools instead of working long hours at dirty factories.

It will take decades. It's true, but my point is that China has the consumer base, and intelligent population, to make it happen without heavily relying on the West for trade. By all means, they should continue to export their goods, but not in such a way that they will collapse without the exports.

As for half a generation being lost, I never denied it. I'm saying that the "want another child" motivation no longer exists, since, they're allowed to have them now. They were idiots with their policy. No denying that. But for the problems associated with the policy to become apparent, it will take another 10-20 years, when those 30-40 year olds are in their 50s.

Dude, you are missing the point. It's the Chinese government, that is sitting on $2 trillion or so in reserves. The typical Chinese family needs that extra income. They are poor.

The problems with the OCP are already apparent. Less taxpayers and employees. And a shortage of girls. Apparently, more first born are boys? I dunno, but that is what I hear. A shortage of girls. In the tens of millions.

I'm trying to say that the Chinese government can use that money it's sitting on to improve the country. Well, more than it's doing now.

As for the second paragraph, yeah. It's a problem in India as well. Many families abort female fetuses before they're born. I was seeing this documentary on the suburbs in Mumbai. A family, where a girl had been born, just said: "we were unlucky. Well, there's always next time". This is what causes the disparity.

[Mga42]

Mixed Economy is best economy.

[Sibirsky]

Dude, you are missing the point. It's the Chinese government, that is sitting on $2 trillion or so in reserves. The typical Chinese family needs that extra income. They are poor.

The problems with the OCP are already apparent. Less taxpayers and employees. And a shortage of girls. Apparently, more first born are boys? I dunno, but that is what I hear. A shortage of girls. In the tens of millions.

I'm trying to say that the Chinese government can use that money it's sitting on to improve the country. Well, more than it's doing now.

As for the second paragraph, yeah. It's a problem in India as well. Many families abort female fetuses before they're born. I was seeing this documentary on the suburbs in Mumbai. A family, where a girl had been born, just said: "we were unlucky. Well, there's always next time". This is what causes the disparity.

Why would they do that? I want a daughter. A son, also, but I am not going to abort my second child if he/she has the same gender as the first. That's ridiculous.

[Mongolian Khanate]

I'm trying to say that the Chinese government can use that money it's sitting on to improve the country. Well, more than it's doing now.

As for the second paragraph, yeah. It's a problem in India as well. Many families abort female fetuses before they're born. I was seeing this documentary on the suburbs in Mumbai. A family, where a girl had been born, just said: "we were unlucky. Well, there's always next time". This is what causes the disparity.

Why would they do that? I want a daughter. A son, also, but I am not going to abort my second child if he/she has the same gender as the first. That's ridiculous.

Social Construct. Sons have a higher standing. Apply economic theory to traditional societal values

[Keronians]

I'm trying to say that the Chinese government can use that money it's sitting on to improve the country. Well, more than it's doing now.

As for the second paragraph, yeah. It's a problem in India as well. Many families abort female fetuses before they're born. I was seeing this documentary on the suburbs in Mumbai. A family, where a girl had been born, just said: "we were unlucky. Well, there's always next time". This is what causes the disparity.

Why would they do that? I want a daughter. A son, also, but I am not going to abort my second child if he/she has the same gender as the first. That's ridiculous.

Sons have higher standing. Before my brother was born, my parents were planning on adopting an Indian girl. Go to an orphanage. Like 80%+ of the children there are girls.

They're seen as burdens. They are "not as intelligent as boys", are not as physically capable, and do not bring in money and material when married. In India, when a girl is married, often times, dowry is demanded. Another disadvantage.

They also leave the house, while boys bring women in. Boys continue the family name, while girls do not. And I'm surely missing one, but these are Indian ones. Some are common for China.

[Condunum]

...Why not both? Socio-capitalism?

As in... Socialist policy, and reform capitalism?

[Arkiasis]

I like a combination of both.

[Mongolian Khanate]

What you guys like is market based economies with high levels of state spending.

Doesn't sound so sexy now, does it?

[Keronians]

What you guys like is market based economies with high levels of state spending.

Doesn't sound so sexy now, does it?

Of course not.

Why do you think we spend hours coming up with names for it?

[Sibirsky]

I want negative government.
/sarcasm

[Mongolian Khanate]

I want negative government.
/sarcasm

Between you and the government, one of those has more guns than the other, and can afford to steal the butter if need be.

Hint, it's not you.

[LiangLai]

Capitalism, forever and ever.
And, those who support Marxist socialism or Communism, I tell you:
It's easy to be left-wing with someone else's wallet. But, when it is your wallet the one involved, trust me, you'll go back to right-wing in a flash.

^ This 9001%
Bit late, but meh. Except I'd changed left/right wing to Socialist/Capitalist

[South Benson]

Capitalism, since basic economics says that when property is private, people have incentive to take care of it and improve the land. This also promotes technological innovation and other necessary functions we take for granted. I think anyone who denies this is an ideologue and should keep far away from the government.

[Southern Babylonia]

look at my country a sec. It should give you an idea of my answer

[Sociobiology]

the left is about taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor,
the right is about taking money from the poor and giving it to the rich,
anarchism is about taking money from everyone and stacking it in a big pile and lighting it on fire.

I'll bet a cookie most the complaints are about how the side the complainer adheres to is wrong, but the rest are fine.

[Rennebourg]

I still think you guys would have more productive discussions if you did Planned economies VS Free market based economies

But... then I'd have nothing to do.

Why do you hate us social democrats? WHY?

b/c you're all terrible.

[Patriqvinia]

That does not require child labour. The economy will not collapse if children are made to go to schools instead of working long hours at dirty factories.

It will take decades. It's true, but my point is that China has the consumer base, and intelligent population, to make it happen without heavily relying on the West for trade. By all means, they should continue to export their goods, but not in such a way that they will collapse without the exports.

As for half a generation being lost, I never denied it. I'm saying that the "want another child" motivation no longer exists, since, they're allowed to have them now. They were idiots with their policy. No denying that. But for the problems associated with the policy to become apparent, it will take another 10-20 years, when those 30-40 year olds are in their 50s.

Dude, you are missing the point. It's the Chinese government, that is sitting on $2 trillion or so in reserves. The typical Chinese family needs that extra income. They are poor.

The problems with the OCP are already apparent. Less taxpayers and employees. And a shortage of girls. Apparently, more first born are boys? I dunno, but that is what I hear. A shortage of girls. In the tens of millions.

Sadly, that girl shortage will probably surely be remedied by importing enslaved women. Yet another fun side-effect of the one child policy.

[Sibirsky]

Dude, you are missing the point. It's the Chinese government, that is sitting on $2 trillion or so in reserves. The typical Chinese family needs that extra income. They are poor.

The problems with the OCP are already apparent. Less taxpayers and employees. And a shortage of girls. Apparently, more first born are boys? I dunno, but that is what I hear. A shortage of girls. In the tens of millions.

Sadly, that girl shortage will probably surely be remedied by importing enslaved women. Yet another fun side-effect of the one child policy.

If they had a shortage of boys I'd be willing to take the women off their hands to even things out.

[Patriqvinia]

Sadly, that girl shortage will probably surely be remedied by importing enslaved women. Yet another fun side-effect of the one child policy.

If they had a shortage of boys I'd be willing to take the women off their hands to even things out.

Certainly not against their will though... right?