Capitalisim vs. Socialisim

[Trotskylvania]

Are you one of those game nerds that think that what games say is truth.

Are you one of those people with bad spelling, mister "proloteriat"?

Do I have to sentence you both to a stint in the friendship reeducation camp?

[Conscentia]

Market Socialism - it's the best kind in my opinion.
Capitalism is okay, I'm not going to force you to share your business with your workers.
The only reason I support both Capitalism and Socialism is that I cannot find a decent argument for the abolishment of Capitalism.
All the anti-capitalist arguments are actually anti-market arguments, and market economy is a vast improvement on the alternative.

[The Catopians]

He assumed something about me that was negative.

I just noticed a fact.

Logic, it is.

[Proloteriat]

Are you one of those game nerds that think that what games say is truth.

Are you one of those people with bad spelling, mister "proloteriat"?

Are we going to change a good argument bad and just shout at eachother I hope not.

[Proloteriat]

Are you one of those people with bad spelling, mister "proloteriat"?

Are we going to change a good argument bad and just shout at eachother I hope not.

Oh and sorry.

[The Catopians]

Are you one of those people with bad spelling, mister "proloteriat"?

Are we going to change a good argument bad and just shout at eachother I hope not.

Nah.

[Liriena]

Capitalism, forever and ever.
And, those who support Marxist socialism or Communism, I tell you:
It's easy to be left-wing with someone else's wallet. But, when it is your wallet the one involved, trust me, you'll go back to right-wing in a flash.

[Trotskylvania]

He assumed something about me that was negative.

I just noticed a fact.

Logic, it is.

Are you one of those people with bad spelling, mister "proloteriat"?

Are we going to change a good argument bad and just shout at eachother I hope not.

Gonna love and tolerate the shit out of both of you

[Hippostania]

He assumed something about me that was negative.

I just noticed a fact.

Logic, it is.

Are we going to change a good argument bad and just shout at eachother I hope not.

Gonna love and tolerate the shit out of both of you

I am trying to do the same with you socialists.

[Proloteriat]

He assumed something about me that was negative.

I just noticed a fact.

Logic, it is.

Sorry I asume too much but there are a lot of people that think game stories are real polotics.

[The Catopians]

Capitalism, forever and ever.
And, those who support Marxist socialism or Communism, I tell you:
It's easy to be left-wing with someone else's wallet. But, when it is your wallet the one involved, trust me, you'll go back to right-wing in a flash.

I completely agree with this.

Socialism and welfare states reward those that don't work or strive to improve.

At least Communism puts them to work, but I still disagree with the ideology.

Capitalism, while it has a few problems, is fair.

[Keronians]

Capitalism, forever and ever.
And, those who support Marxist socialism or Communism, I tell you:
It's easy to be left-wing with someone else's wallet. But, when it is your wallet the one involved, trust me, you'll go back to right-wing in a flash.

I completely agree with this.

Socialism and welfare states reward those that don't work or strive to improve.

At least Communism puts them to work, but I still disagree with the ideology.

Capitalism, while it has a few problems, is fair.

Welfare states are capitalists.

I advocate a social market, and am still a capitalist.

[The Merchant Republics]

True, it doesn't have to be Nike who creates jobs for these poor people. It can be Coca Cola or pretty much any other big corporation. These corporations are offering people a way out of the extreme poverty to semi-poverty, and they should be extremely happy and glad for it.

Grateful to be chained to to their workstations while armed guards with rifles watch them from catwalks?
Grateful to earn a starvation wage?

Screw that, I wouldn't tolerate it, you wouldn't tolerate it. And if they strung their oppressors up by their testicles I would cheer the loudest.

There is legitimate exploitation in the third world, but it occurs with the government's toleration, and indeed at the abuse of all libertarian ethos.

I support free trade but justice, justice also, people should not be treated like animals, they have certain rights to be from abuse. The act of working in these factories is not exploitation, the actual elements of their work are, no factory should have armed guards and no person, no matter their condition.

However it would be incorrect historically and economically speaking to say these corporations do not benefit the societies they work within, subsistence wages are better than the alternative. No subsistence, and as history has shown us they lead inevitably to higher wages, wages with which a comfortable life may be purchased. The abuse of workers does not follow into the money they make, they earn their productive value, they earn enough to live. It's not a good life, but in time it will get better.

There is no magic bullet, no policy which will eliminate poverty, we need time and we need capitalism and we need to protect the workers, let them organize and represent themselves like any other organization. We don't need a state that will allow the capitalists to abuse the workers, and we certainly don't need a state that will presume the role of the capitalists and deliver the exact same abusive response, we need the capitalists to respect the workers and vice-versa under a legal framework which prevents abuses by either to either.

[Cologno]

All the anti-capitalist arguments are actually anti-market arguments

not true

mutualism,georgism and some other left-libertarian are very pro-market

[DaWoad]

Capitalism, forever and ever.
And, those who support Marxist socialism or Communism, I tell you:
It's easy to be left-wing with someone else's wallet. But, when it is your wallet the one involved, trust me, you'll go back to right-wing in a flash.

so, the only right wingers are folks with lots of money and no desire to help anyone else out?

[Proloteriat]

Why does everyone asume that all socialists are extreme.

[United Dependencies]

Dichotomies are awesome and are the only way someone should approach politics/economics.

That's what I think.

[Proloteriat]

Grateful to be chained to to their workstations while armed guards with rifles watch them from catwalks?
Grateful to earn a starvation wage?

Screw that, I wouldn't tolerate it, you wouldn't tolerate it. And if they strung their oppressors up by their testicles I would cheer the loudest.

There is legitimate exploitation in the third world, but it occurs with the government's toleration, and indeed at the abuse of all libertarian ethos.

I support free trade but justice, justice also, people should not be treated like animals, they have certain rights to be from abuse. The act of working in these factories is not exploitation, the actual elements of their work are, no factory should have armed guards and no person, no matter their condition.

However it would be incorrect historically and economically speaking to say these corporations do not benefit the societies they work within, subsistence wages are better than the alternative. No subsistence, and as history has shown us they lead inevitably to higher wages, wages with which a comfortable life may be purchased. The abuse of workers does not follow into the money they make, they earn their productive value, they earn enough to live. It's not a good life, but in time it will get better.

There is no magic bullet, no policy which will eliminate poverty, we need time and we need capitalism and we need to protect the workers, let them organize and represent themselves like any other organization. We don't need a state that will allow the capitalists to abuse the workers, and we certainly don't need a state that will presume the role of the capitalists and deliver the exact same abusive response, we need the capitalists to respect the workers and vice-versa under a legal framework which prevents abuses by either to either.

I agree with you completely.

[Cologno]

Why does everyone asume that all socialists are extreme.

because capitalist owned media have done an excellent propaganda job and now for most people "socialism=state communism=USSR,korea DPR,cuba"

[The Merchant Republics]

Capitalism, forever and ever.
And, those who support Marxist socialism or Communism, I tell you:
It's easy to be left-wing with someone else's wallet. But, when it is your wallet the one involved, trust me, you'll go back to right-wing in a flash.

so, the only right wingers are folks with lots of money and no desire to help anyone else out?

Not true in my case, I've a bad tendency of letting money burn a whole in my pocket. I love, dearly love the charitable organizations I affiliate with, and whenever I have a regular paycheck, I like to give at fair portion of it to charity.

I think charity is better than state assistance however and I don't support state assistance in it's current forms.

[Rennebourg]

It is working perfectly.
It's the people in the system f#cking up.

There will always be people in the system, so unless you plan to hand the economy over to the machines, I don't see how you are gonna fix the "problem"

The OLD people were fine. It's the current people.
The future people will hopefully be less stupid.

[Proloteriat]

I pearsonaly like Cuba as a country. It has the higest university rate in the world it has the best health in Latin america and most of north america. But Scandanavia is a prime example of capitalist briliance. "It dosent matter if a cat is black or white if it catches the mouse it's a good cat." I forget who quoted that.

[Conscentia]

All the anti-capitalist arguments are actually anti-market arguments

not true

mutualism,georgism and some other left-libertarian are very pro-market

My "all" I mean't "most". I haven't found a single good anti-capitalist argument - though I'm still a socialist.

[The Merchant Republics]

I pearsonaly like Cuba as a country. It has the higest university rate in the world it has the best health in Latin america and most of north america. But Scandanavia is a prime example of capitalist briliance. "It dosent matter if a cat is black or white if it catches the mouse it's a good cat." I forget who quoted that.

Cuba, I'd like to point out, while being better than most of the Banana Republics of the Caribbean, started off much better (it was the richest, best fed and most advanced Caribbean nation by the time of Castro's revolution), they certainly are no prize. High rates of education are only so good, if you can't feed your own people, and feeding their own people is a significant task in Cuba. There is a lot of puffery involved in their Healthcare, I don't really want to get into details, but they abuse their numbers quite a bit to look as good as they do.

Ironically, much like the Soviet Union, the reason Cuba's education is so good, is that the socialist education system places much more important on individual achievement. Whereas American and Western Education tends to again ironically put more value on total classroom/school achievement.

[Red Indus]

"It dosent matter if a cat is black or white if it catches the mouse it's a good cat." I forget who quoted that.

One of the Chinese "Communists", maybe Deng, but I'm pretty sure it's been around since antiquity.