Capitalisim vs. Socialisim

[Proloteriat]

And consider manual work is hard to.
Consider also that if people fight for their freedom they are working hard at revolution and a new way.

[Hippostania]

Poor = Some are poor for a reason, some are not.

That's not what you said earlier...

I said that there are a few exceptions, but that's very rare.

[Sibirsky]

Stop lying. This is pure bullshit.

In the west, the poor are better off than the middle classes of socialist economies.

You ignored what I said and I was not talking about the middle classes before.

You were talking about the poor in the west. I am pointing out that the poor in the west are better off than the middle classes of socialist economies, entire due to the economic system.

Supporting centrally planned socialism, is downright evil.

[Hippostania]

And consider manual work is hard to.
Consider also that if people fight for their freedom they are working hard at revolution and a new way.

Everyone can do manual work, it's easy.
Becoming a politician or a lawyer on the other hand requires lots of studying and hard work.

[Cologno]

That's not what you said earlier...

I said that there are a few exceptions, but that's very rare.

Do you know them personally?

or you think so because you have read Ayn Rand?

[Hippostania]

Supporting centrally planned socialism, is downright evil.

This, this, oh this!

[Sibirsky]

Now they shouldn't. Why should person A, a lazy weedsmoker who hasn't studied a day in his life own a same amount of property as a person B, who has studied hard for years? Why does the person A have a right to steal person's B property and money, even though he doesn't deserve it?

Why Paris Hilton,lazy bitch, should own more than a PHD in physics?

the idea that capitalism is a Meritocracy has not empirical evidence,it is just a "system justification" lie

I hate this. Shame on you for making me defend that dumb bitch.

She actually makes her own money, doing ads, and TV shows.

[-St George]

That's not what you said earlier...

I said that there are a few exceptions, but that's very rare.

Really? Bad schools are very rare? Being born into poverty is very rare?

[Trotskylvania]

Lol. There's never been a socialist country. There's been countries that called themselves socialist. Big difference.

*fap**fap**fap**fap**fap**fap**fap**fap**fap*

Defining Feature of Socialism: Means of Production are state-owned.

You seriously saying no country has ever maintained state-ownership of the means of production?

OH! Wait, I get it now.

You're saying that no country has ever maintained state-ownership of the means of production while also maintaining the wet dreams of adolescent, starry-eyed idealists, since they all, quite inevitably so, realise the beautiful options provided for budding totalitarianism once the state owns everything, and can happily set wages as it pleases, release and withhold information as it pleases, limit access to transport infrastructure as it pleases, and limit production of necessities as well as luxury goods as it pleases, not to mention keeping innovation exactly as limited as it pleases.

In this case you're of course right. There's never been a socialist country, just as there's never been a country filled with rainbow-shitting, magical unicorns where everyone lives in peace and without worries - both of which have exactly the same probability of existing, and are equally worthwhile subjects to discuss.

You're getting off your game NiS.

[Sibirsky]

What about the lazy bastards that that got all the money they own from their fathers managers are becoming the new aristocorasy.

What about them? It is their ancestors right to do as they please with their property.

[Sibirsky]

Socialism FTW

[Hippostania]

I said that there are a few exceptions, but that's very rare.

Really? Bad schools are very rare? Being born into poverty is very rare?

You don't seem to understand that people are not born dumb or intelligent. You can study independently even if you're from a poor family and go to a bad school. But if you succumb to peer pressure and don't give a damn about studying, then being poor is your fault.

[-St George]

What about the lazy bastards that that got all the money they own from their fathers managers are becoming the new aristocorasy.

What about them? It is their ancestors right to do as they please with their property.

Because said lazy bastards then go on to contribute nothing to society?

[Proloteriat]

Intelectual work shouldnt be valued over manual work they are equaly important how would a company work without its slaves................... Exatly it can't that is why people should be valued for their work to the company and given a decent wage. Take Nike's child labour it takes les than £1 to make a pair of trainers and they sometimes sell them for over £20 Nike could still make a good profit if it gave the people a fair wage.

[Sibirsky]

Supporting centrally planned socialism, is downright evil.

This, this, oh this!

It is condemning the masses to poverty and loss of rights.

[Hippostania]

What about them? It is their ancestors right to do as they please with their property.

Because said lazy bastards then go on to contribute nothing to society?

Paris Hilton pays for her own life with the money she has earned herself. She also pays taxes.
I don't see what's the problem. She may be an annoying bitch, but she hasn't really done anything wrong. Well, except some drunk driving. That's bad.

[Red Indus]

What about them? It is their ancestors right to do as they please with their property.

It might be said that dictators own their states, but your only problem with that seems to be that they swindled it through military rather then monetary means.

[Sibirsky]

What about them? It is their ancestors right to do as they please with their property.

Because said lazy bastards then go on to contribute nothing to society?

Of course they do. They spend and invest that money.

[Proloteriat]

And consider manual work is hard to.
Consider also that if people fight for their freedom they are working hard at revolution and a new way.

Everyone can do manual work, it's easy.
Becoming a politician or a lawyer on the other hand requires lots of studying and hard work.

Simple but not easy.

[Hippostania]

Intelectual work shouldnt be valued over manual work they are equaly important how would a company work without its slaves................... Exatly it can't that is why people should be valued for their work to the company and given a decent wage. Take Nike's child labour it takes les than £1 to make a pair of trainers and they sometimes sell them for over £20 Nike could still make a good profit if it gave the people a fair wage.

Yes, it should. As I said, everyone can do manual work. Sure, it may be difficult but the fact is that pretty much everyone can do manual work without much studying. Intellectual work however requires years of hard work and studying. That is why lawyers, doctors and politicians get paid better than people making shoes in Abracadabrastan.

[-St George]

Really? Bad schools are very rare? Being born into poverty is very rare?

You don't seem to understand that people are not born dumb or intelligent. You can study independently even if you're from a poor family and go to a bad school. But if you succumb to peer pressure and don't give a damn about studying, then being poor is your fault.

'Succumb to peer pressure'. 'Don't give a damn about studying'.

Lol.

You obviously have no experience of how poor people live. And how do you study independently if you can't afford books? If you have to work a job to help make sure your family remains in their home?

Because said lazy bastards then go on to contribute nothing to society?

She also pays taxes.

>implying she doesn't have an accountant to take advantage of every loophole.

[-St George]

And consider manual work is hard to.
Consider also that if people fight for their freedom they are working hard at revolution and a new way.

Everyone can do manual work, it's easy.
Becoming a politician or a lawyer on the other hand requires lots of studying and hard work.

Please, go on, go out to your local farm or factory and work a 15 hour shift.

[Trotskylvania]

I assume you mean trade unions, and if so, then how is being allowed to be in a trade union guaranteed?

I mean labor unions. As long as they are voluntary, I have no issues with them. There is nothing anti-free market in labor unions, other than the fact that they tend to level wages.

I think his point is that, very rarely do labor unions get tolerated, let alone have any collective bargaining, without some guarantee of protection of such rights by the state.

Capitalists have never willingly allowed unions to develop as a counter-hegemonic force, since it is simply not in their self-interest. And they've been seldom above using violence, legal or not, to coerce or intimidate the work force.

[Proloteriat]

Ill admit that the far left is shit but social equality should be fairly important. (I have the hammer and sikle because its a good flag.) But a good public sector and a fair private sector is a good idea and sometimes competing with eachother.

[Hippostania]

Everyone can do manual work, it's easy.
Becoming a politician or a lawyer on the other hand requires lots of studying and hard work.

Please, go on, go out to your local farm or factory and work a 15 hour shift.

I'm not saying that it's not difficult. Sure, it may be hard work, but the people who own that factory have studied very hard, they have gone through hundreds of exams and tests, they have gotten job experience from shitty workplaces such as McDonald's and after years of hard work, they're entitled to enjoy the fruits of their labor.