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Capitalisim vs. Socialisim

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Capitalisim vs Socialisim

Capitalisim
106
41%
Socialisim
116
45%
STUPID OPTION!!1!
14
5%
Other
21
8%
 
Total votes : 257

User avatar
Trotskylvania
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17070
Founded: Jul 07, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Trotskylvania » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:33 am

-St George wrote:
Hippostania wrote:How tragic.
That doesn't change the fact that other people are not responsible for these people. Other may people may help them if they want, but forcing them to help these people is unethical and wrong.

Oh how lol[bertarian].

Taxation = theft amirite.

Poor = poor for a reason amirite.

State = evil amirite.

Don't kid yourself. The state is a violent, destructive institution of class dictatorship. The fact that the proles have bargained themselves the drippings from their master's plates doesn't legitimate the state.
Your Friendly Neighborhood Ultra - The Left Wing of the Impossible
Putting the '-sadism' in Posadism


"The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss."- Bordiga

User avatar
GeneralHaNor
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6996
Founded: Sep 03, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby GeneralHaNor » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:33 am

Hippostania wrote:
GeneralHaNor wrote:
Stop, I usually support you, but there is no excuse for that
Nike deserves to burn to the ground for their crimes, and the solution to unemployment is for the workers to storm the factory, kill the managers, and run the equipment themselves.

There is no excuse for Child Slavery.

No offence, but Sibirsky is right. If they wouldn't be working, they'd be starving in the streets. Nike is offering these children job and money, which they would be unable to get otherwise.
You, on the other hand are a terrible person; you support murdering innocent managers and stealing other people's property. That is unacceptable! D:<


Bullshit, pure bullshit, I can't believe you people actually support sweatshop labor

Anything that happens to these exploiters is fair game, poverty or not.
You don't need Nike to create better working conditions, that's a lie.

I am now reminded at why I find Capitalists disgusting.
Victorious Decepticons wrote:If they said "this is what you enjoy so do this" and handed me a stack of my favorite video games, then it'd be far different. But governments don't work that way. They'd hand me a dishrag...
And I'd hand them an insurgency.
Trotskylvania wrote:Don't kid yourself. The state is a violent, destructive institution of class dictatorship. The fact that the proles have bargained themselves the drippings from their master's plates doesn't legitimize the state.

User avatar
Proloteriat
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1354
Founded: Jul 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Proloteriat » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:34 am

Why do we even have these debates sadly no one is willing to take a good point. I think if theres a good point it should be used either left or right but no one will stand down its quite depressing.
Biogoraphy of President Uri Comradev
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=157616
When I get round to it I will have a national factbook as well but meh.

Also please note that I generaly post once on NSG to state my opinion the chances of me replying are little to none. But in an RP I will be active.

--Member of the People's Communist Party--

User avatar
-St George
Senator
 
Posts: 4537
Founded: Apr 25, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby -St George » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:35 am

Hippostania wrote:
-St George wrote:Please, go on, go out to your local farm or factory and work a 15 hour shift.

I'm not saying that it's not difficult. Sure, it may be hard work, but the people who own that factory have studied very hard, they have gone through hundreds of exams and tests, they have gotten job experience from shitty workplaces such as McDonald's and after years of hard work, they're entitled to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

Except you did say it wasn't difficult. You said it was easy.
[19:12] <Amitabho> I mean, a little niggling voice tells me this is impossible, but then my voice of reason kicks in
[21:07] <@Milograd> I totally endorse the unfair moderation.
01:46 Goobergunch I could support StGeorge's nuts for the GOP nomination
( Anemos was here )
Also, Bonobos

User avatar
Hippostania
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8826
Founded: Nov 23, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Hippostania » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:36 am

GeneralHaNor wrote:
Hippostania wrote:No offence, but Sibirsky is right. If they wouldn't be working, they'd be starving in the streets. Nike is offering these children job and money, which they would be unable to get otherwise.
You, on the other hand are a terrible person; you support murdering innocent managers and stealing other people's property. That is unacceptable! D:<


Bullshit, pure bullshit, I can't believe you people actually support sweatshop labor

Anything that happens to these exploiters is fair game, poverty or not.
You don't need Nike to create better working conditions, that's a lie.

I am now reminded at why I find Capitalists disgusting.

True, it doesn't have to be Nike who creates jobs for these poor people. It can be Coca Cola or pretty much any other big corporation. These corporations are offering people a way out of the extreme poverty to semi-poverty, and they should be extremely happy and glad for it.
Factbook - New Embassy Program
Economic Right: 10.00 - Social Authoritarian: 2.87 - Foreign Policy Neoconservative: 9.54 - Cultural Liberal: -1.14
For: market liberalism, capitalism, eurofederalism, neoconservatism, British unionism, atlanticism, LGB rights, abortion rights, Greater Israel, Pan-Western federalism, NATO, USA, EU
Against: communism, socialism, anarchism, eurosceptism, agrarianism, Swiss/Irish/Scottish/Welsh independence, cultural relativism, all things Russian, aboriginal/native American special rights

Hippo's Political Party Rankings (updated 21/7/2013)

User avatar
Hippostania
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8826
Founded: Nov 23, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Hippostania » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:37 am

-St George wrote:
Hippostania wrote:I'm not saying that it's not difficult. Sure, it may be hard work, but the people who own that factory have studied very hard, they have gone through hundreds of exams and tests, they have gotten job experience from shitty workplaces such as McDonald's and after years of hard work, they're entitled to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

Except you did say it wasn't difficult. You said it was easy.

I said it was easy to get into a job where you do manual labor. And even though the job might be physically hard, mentally incredibly easy. You don't have to think at all.
Factbook - New Embassy Program
Economic Right: 10.00 - Social Authoritarian: 2.87 - Foreign Policy Neoconservative: 9.54 - Cultural Liberal: -1.14
For: market liberalism, capitalism, eurofederalism, neoconservatism, British unionism, atlanticism, LGB rights, abortion rights, Greater Israel, Pan-Western federalism, NATO, USA, EU
Against: communism, socialism, anarchism, eurosceptism, agrarianism, Swiss/Irish/Scottish/Welsh independence, cultural relativism, all things Russian, aboriginal/native American special rights

Hippo's Political Party Rankings (updated 21/7/2013)

User avatar
Proloteriat
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1354
Founded: Jul 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Proloteriat » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:38 am

Comrade I find humanity disgusting dictaitors do the same as capitalists if they can get away with it capitalists are just more aproved because they won the cold war the same happens with communist that is why i'm Democratic Socialist. Companies are realy just mini dictaitorships.
Biogoraphy of President Uri Comradev
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=157616
When I get round to it I will have a national factbook as well but meh.

Also please note that I generaly post once on NSG to state my opinion the chances of me replying are little to none. But in an RP I will be active.

--Member of the People's Communist Party--

User avatar
Red Indus
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 380
Founded: Sep 11, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Red Indus » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:38 am

Hippostania wrote:I'm not saying that it's not difficult. Sure, it may be hard work, but the people who own that factory have studied very hard, they have gone through hundreds of exams and tests, they have gotten job experience from shitty workplaces such as McDonald's and after years of hard work, they're entitled to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

Except that doesn't have to be the case, lol. If you want an argument against capitalism you just made it.

User avatar
The Catopians
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Nov 06, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby The Catopians » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:38 am

I'm going to quote Liberty Prime from Fallout 3.

Communism is the very definition of failure.

As is Socialism.

User avatar
-St George
Senator
 
Posts: 4537
Founded: Apr 25, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby -St George » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:38 am

Hippostania wrote:
-St George wrote:Except you did say it wasn't difficult. You said it was easy.

I said it was easy to get into a job where you do manual labor. And even though the job might be physically hard, mentally incredibly easy. You don't have to think at all.

So says someone who's never done a manual labour job.
[19:12] <Amitabho> I mean, a little niggling voice tells me this is impossible, but then my voice of reason kicks in
[21:07] <@Milograd> I totally endorse the unfair moderation.
01:46 Goobergunch I could support StGeorge's nuts for the GOP nomination
( Anemos was here )
Also, Bonobos

User avatar
GeneralHaNor
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6996
Founded: Sep 03, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby GeneralHaNor » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:42 am

Hippostania wrote:
GeneralHaNor wrote:
Bullshit, pure bullshit, I can't believe you people actually support sweatshop labor

Anything that happens to these exploiters is fair game, poverty or not.
You don't need Nike to create better working conditions, that's a lie.

I am now reminded at why I find Capitalists disgusting.

True, it doesn't have to be Nike who creates jobs for these poor people. It can be Coca Cola or pretty much any other big corporation. These corporations are offering people a way out of the extreme poverty to semi-poverty, and they should be extremely happy and glad for it.


Grateful to be chained to to their workstations while armed guards with rifles watch them from catwalks?
Grateful to earn a starvation wage?

Screw that, I wouldn't tolerate it, you wouldn't tolerate it. And if they strung their oppressors up by their testicles I would cheer the loudest.
Last edited by GeneralHaNor on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Victorious Decepticons wrote:If they said "this is what you enjoy so do this" and handed me a stack of my favorite video games, then it'd be far different. But governments don't work that way. They'd hand me a dishrag...
And I'd hand them an insurgency.
Trotskylvania wrote:Don't kid yourself. The state is a violent, destructive institution of class dictatorship. The fact that the proles have bargained themselves the drippings from their master's plates doesn't legitimize the state.

User avatar
Proloteriat
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1354
Founded: Jul 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Proloteriat » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:42 am

Hippostania wrote:
-St George wrote:Except you did say it wasn't difficult. You said it was easy.

I said it was easy to get into a job where you do manual labor. And even though the job might be physically hard, mentally incredibly easy. You don't have to think at all.

Try working in a place like theirs for one day.
Biogoraphy of President Uri Comradev
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=157616
When I get round to it I will have a national factbook as well but meh.

Also please note that I generaly post once on NSG to state my opinion the chances of me replying are little to none. But in an RP I will be active.

--Member of the People's Communist Party--

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Post Czar
 
Posts: 49032
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:43 am

Choose whether the group we vote for using ballot papers bosses us around, or the group we vote for using money does...
neither thanks
Do you remember the 2012 election where Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest threat to world peace and Obama and the Democratic establishment mocked him, mere years before they began arguing they had allowed US sovereignty to be usurped on their watch by Russia and this is why the other side was unfit to govern?
That's alright, neither do they apparently.

User avatar
Hippostania
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8826
Founded: Nov 23, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Hippostania » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:44 am

GeneralHaNor wrote:
Hippostania wrote:True, it doesn't have to be Nike who creates jobs for these poor people. It can be Coca Cola or pretty much any other big corporation. These corporations are offering people a way out of the extreme poverty to semi-poverty, and they should be extremely happy and glad for it.


Grateful to be chained to to their workstations while armed guards with rifles watch them from catwalks?
Grateful to earn a starvation wage?

Screw that, I wouldn't tolerate it, you wouldn't tolerate it. And if they strung their oppressors up by their testicles I would cheer the loudest.

Yes, they should be grateful that they have a job and guaranteed, steady source of income. If they'd strung their employeers from their testicles, the very people who have generously given them a job, they should be severely beaten for being very ungrateful. Nobody is forcing them to work there.
Factbook - New Embassy Program
Economic Right: 10.00 - Social Authoritarian: 2.87 - Foreign Policy Neoconservative: 9.54 - Cultural Liberal: -1.14
For: market liberalism, capitalism, eurofederalism, neoconservatism, British unionism, atlanticism, LGB rights, abortion rights, Greater Israel, Pan-Western federalism, NATO, USA, EU
Against: communism, socialism, anarchism, eurosceptism, agrarianism, Swiss/Irish/Scottish/Welsh independence, cultural relativism, all things Russian, aboriginal/native American special rights

Hippo's Political Party Rankings (updated 21/7/2013)

User avatar
GeneralHaNor
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6996
Founded: Sep 03, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby GeneralHaNor » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:44 am

Trotskylvania wrote:Don't kid yourself. The state is a violent, destructive institution of class dictatorship. The fact that the proles have bargained themselves the drippings from their master's plates doesn't legitimate the state.

sigged
Victorious Decepticons wrote:If they said "this is what you enjoy so do this" and handed me a stack of my favorite video games, then it'd be far different. But governments don't work that way. They'd hand me a dishrag...
And I'd hand them an insurgency.
Trotskylvania wrote:Don't kid yourself. The state is a violent, destructive institution of class dictatorship. The fact that the proles have bargained themselves the drippings from their master's plates doesn't legitimize the state.

User avatar
Proloteriat
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1354
Founded: Jul 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Proloteriat » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:44 am

Proloteriat wrote:
Hippostania wrote:I said it was easy to get into a job where you do manual labor. And even though the job might be physically hard, mentally incredibly easy. You don't have to think at all.

Try working in a place like theirs for one day.

You'd be a commie in no time my litle Burgoios.
Biogoraphy of President Uri Comradev
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=157616
When I get round to it I will have a national factbook as well but meh.

Also please note that I generaly post once on NSG to state my opinion the chances of me replying are little to none. But in an RP I will be active.

--Member of the People's Communist Party--

User avatar
Hippostania
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8826
Founded: Nov 23, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Hippostania » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:46 am

Proloteriat wrote:
Proloteriat wrote:Try working in a place like theirs for one day.

You'd be a commie in no time my litle Burgoios.

Why? I have worked and studied hard so I do not have to work in a place like that.
Factbook - New Embassy Program
Economic Right: 10.00 - Social Authoritarian: 2.87 - Foreign Policy Neoconservative: 9.54 - Cultural Liberal: -1.14
For: market liberalism, capitalism, eurofederalism, neoconservatism, British unionism, atlanticism, LGB rights, abortion rights, Greater Israel, Pan-Western federalism, NATO, USA, EU
Against: communism, socialism, anarchism, eurosceptism, agrarianism, Swiss/Irish/Scottish/Welsh independence, cultural relativism, all things Russian, aboriginal/native American special rights

Hippo's Political Party Rankings (updated 21/7/2013)

User avatar
Proloteriat
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1354
Founded: Jul 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Proloteriat » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:47 am

The Catopians wrote:I'm going to quote Liberty Prime from Fallout 3.

Communism is the very definition of failure.

As is Socialism.

Are you one of those game nerds that think that what games say is truth.
Biogoraphy of President Uri Comradev
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=157616
When I get round to it I will have a national factbook as well but meh.

Also please note that I generaly post once on NSG to state my opinion the chances of me replying are little to none. But in an RP I will be active.

--Member of the People's Communist Party--

User avatar
Cologno
Attaché
 
Posts: 86
Founded: Jul 24, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Cologno » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:48 am

Hippostania wrote:Why? I have worked and studied hard so I do not have to work in a place like that.


seriously? you are an intellectual lightweight,the only book you have ever read is some Ayn Rand's crap

If i were you I would ask a reimburse to my local school
Last edited by Cologno on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, and socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality

Economic Left/Right: -4.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.69

User avatar
Proloteriat
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1354
Founded: Jul 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Proloteriat » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:48 am

Hippostania wrote:
Proloteriat wrote:You'd be a commie in no time my litle Burgoios.

Why? I have worked and studied hard so I do not have to work in a place like that.

Do you have a problem with workers. You must respect your enemy.
Biogoraphy of President Uri Comradev
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=157616
When I get round to it I will have a national factbook as well but meh.

Also please note that I generaly post once on NSG to state my opinion the chances of me replying are little to none. But in an RP I will be active.

--Member of the People's Communist Party--

User avatar
McKeehan
Secretary
 
Posts: 33
Founded: Jun 09, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby McKeehan » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:48 am

-St George wrote:
Hippostania wrote:You don't seem to understand that people are not born dumb or intelligent. You can study independently even if you're from a poor family and go to a bad school. But if you succumb to peer pressure and don't give a damn about studying, then being poor is your fault.

'Succumb to peer pressure'. 'Don't give a damn about studying'.

Lol.

You obviously have no experience of how poor people live. And how do you study independently if you can't afford books? If you have to work a job to help make sure your family remains in their home?
Hippostania wrote:She also pays taxes.
>implying she doesn't have an accountant to take advantage of every loophole.


I have experience with both how poor people live and bad schools, myself going to a bad school and my family being very impoverished.

And how do you study independently if you can't afford books?


You can get books from libraries, free material on the internet, and books from school. My school is in the bottom 10% of the nation, with only 32% of students considered proficient in English and science. 97% of my school is below the poverty line. It offers four AP classes and no honors classes. I have still managed to take advantage of what I do have access to, while working 28 hours a week, excluding the weekend. I have a very high GPA as well as test scores, coming from all that.

If students work hard instead of complain about what their challenges, they can overcome them.
Last edited by McKeehan on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Trotskylvania
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17070
Founded: Jul 07, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Trotskylvania » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:49 am

Hippostania wrote:
GeneralHaNor wrote:
Bullshit, pure bullshit, I can't believe you people actually support sweatshop labor

Anything that happens to these exploiters is fair game, poverty or not.
You don't need Nike to create better working conditions, that's a lie.

I am now reminded at why I find Capitalists disgusting.

True, it doesn't have to be Nike who creates jobs for these poor people. It can be Coca Cola or pretty much any other big corporation. These corporations are offering people a way out of the extreme poverty to semi-poverty, and they should be extremely happy and glad for it.

Your Rarity flag is the only thing standing in the way from me getting medieval on you.
Your Friendly Neighborhood Ultra - The Left Wing of the Impossible
Putting the '-sadism' in Posadism


"The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss."- Bordiga

User avatar
The Catopians
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Nov 06, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby The Catopians » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:50 am

Proloteriat wrote:
The Catopians wrote:I'm going to quote Liberty Prime from Fallout 3.

Communism is the very definition of failure.

As is Socialism.

Are you one of those game nerds that think that what games say is truth.


Are you one of those people with bad spelling, mister "proloteriat"?

User avatar
Hippostania
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8826
Founded: Nov 23, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Hippostania » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:51 am

Proloteriat wrote:
Hippostania wrote:Why? I have worked and studied hard so I do not have to work in a place like that.

Do you have a problem with workers. You must respect your enemy.

What? The workers aren't my enemies. Without them, I wouldn't have my fancy Converse shoes, my computer or pretty much anything around me.
That doesn't mean that they deserve something better that they have right now.
Factbook - New Embassy Program
Economic Right: 10.00 - Social Authoritarian: 2.87 - Foreign Policy Neoconservative: 9.54 - Cultural Liberal: -1.14
For: market liberalism, capitalism, eurofederalism, neoconservatism, British unionism, atlanticism, LGB rights, abortion rights, Greater Israel, Pan-Western federalism, NATO, USA, EU
Against: communism, socialism, anarchism, eurosceptism, agrarianism, Swiss/Irish/Scottish/Welsh independence, cultural relativism, all things Russian, aboriginal/native American special rights

Hippo's Political Party Rankings (updated 21/7/2013)

User avatar
Pernam
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 53
Founded: Dec 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Pernam » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:53 am

For Socialism ofcourse
I don't speak english as my first language so sorry for spelling mistakes

National Motto:“Exsisto Validus. Fulcio Alius”
National Animal:Black Bear
National Currency:names
National Religion:Pernamism

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