Question and opinions

[History land]

I just get it now.

You are all Doubters. you keep doubting that the men of the mind like the inventor and the industrialists can actually make this a good society. You are all corrupted by the ideas of enviormentalists and collectivists.

you continue to doubt free market captialism. I can`t belive I finally figuried it out why you are all agianst me. I am the lone man of reason

Now, THIS one is perfect... We're doubters now.... Damn, change a couple words and he could be a fire-and-brimstone hell-fire preacher.

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.... It's most likely a duct...

Sorry History Land, not interested in your religion.

Religion is corruptive Objectivism is not religion it does not have to do with sprituial matters

[Dumb Ideologies]

I just get it now.

You are all Doubters. you keep doubting that the men of the mind like the inventor and the industrialists can actually make this a good society. You are all corrupted by the ideas of enviormentalists and collectivists.

you continue to doubt free market captialism. I can`t belive I finally figuried it out why you are all agianst me. I am the lone man of reason

Now, THIS one is perfect... We're doubters now.... Damn, change a couple words and he could be a fire-and-brimstone hell-fire preacher.

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.... It's most likely a duct...

Sorry History Land, not interested in your religion.

Religion is corruptive Objectivism is not religion it does not have to do with sprituial matters

Sounds like a religion. "I'm going to ignore all your evidence, and just wildly spout dogma".

[History land]

But it looks like I have been right the whole time. It`s because I have been traped for too long not anymore.


It`s too late for all of you. You are all looters you don`t like freedom only control more and more contral and restrictions

[History land]

Well I figured it out. All of you hate freedom it`s the only logical explination

[Ifreann]

But it looks like I have been right the whole time. It`s because I have been traped for too long not anymore.


It`s too late for all of you. You are all looters you don`t like freedom only control more and more contral and restrictions

Wouldn't looters love freedom? You know, freedom to loot. More regulations will make looting harder.

[Barringtonia]

Well I figured it out. All of you hate freedom it`s the only logical explination

Okay, lol, you've gone through every mantra now,

Good work,

[Ifreann]

Well I figured it out. All of you hate freedom it`s the only logical explination

Damn right we do!

[History land]

But it looks like I have been right the whole time. It`s because I have been traped for too long not anymore.


It`s too late for all of you. You are all looters you don`t like freedom only control more and more contral and restrictions

Wouldn't looters love freedom? You know, freedom to loot. More regulations will make looting harder.

Wrong it makes it easier. because more of the wealth can be given to the looters.

[History land]

Well I figured it out. All of you hate freedom it`s the only logical explination

Okay, lol, you've gone through every mantra now,

Good work,

Allright then the only way you can have freedom is to eliminate all regulations and enviormental restrictions.

[Barringtonia]

The way you're charging into all this you should really be shouting Leeee-roy Jennnn-kins.

[Dumb Ideologies]

But it looks like I have been right the whole time. It`s because I have been traped for too long not anymore.


It`s too late for all of you. You are all looters you don`t like freedom only control more and more contral and restrictions

Actually, we just don't like the nightmareish hellhole you've described as 'utopia' in this thread.

I'm quite fond of freedom. Freedom from poverty, and all that.

[Ifreann]

But it looks like I have been right the whole time. It`s because I have been traped for too long not anymore.


It`s too late for all of you. You are all looters you don`t like freedom only control more and more contral and restrictions

Wouldn't looters love freedom? You know, freedom to loot. More regulations will make looting harder.

Wrong it makes it easier. because more of the wealth can be given to the looters.

Given? Looters steal things. I suppose looters in a rich area can steal more valuable things.

[History land]

You know what I am ending this conversation I can`t convince you collectivists away from control. It`s over I can`t convince any of you.

But I will stick with my ideas I`ll be back for another debate and I will speak loudly I don`t back down don`t woory there will be another debate and I will bring all the proof I need to show you that your wrong.

[History land]

But it looks like I have been right the whole time. It`s because I have been traped for too long not anymore.


It`s too late for all of you. You are all looters you don`t like freedom only control more and more contral and restrictions

Actually, we just don't like the nightmareish hellhole you've described as 'utopia' in this thread.

Which is called Freedom which you think it`s a nightmare becuase you hate freedom

[Barringtonia]

You know what I am ending this conversation I can`t convince you collectivists away from control. It`s over I can`t convince any of you.

But I will stick with my ideas I`ll be back for another debate and I will speak loudly I don`t back down don`t woory there will be another debate and I will bring all the proof I need to show you that your wrong.

At least you have chicken.

[Dumb Ideologies]

But it looks like I have been right the whole time. It`s because I have been traped for too long not anymore.


It`s too late for all of you. You are all looters you don`t like freedom only control more and more contral and restrictions

Actually, we just don't like the nightmareish hellhole you've described as 'utopia' in this thread.

Which is called Freedom which you think it`s a nightmare becuase you hate freedom

On the contrary. I'm quite fond of freedom. I believe in positive rights and freedoms, rather than your extremist negative 'freedom to starve', which isn't really freedom at all. Why do you hate freedom? Why do you hate your fellow man?

Oh no, he ran away!

[Ifreann]

You know what I am ending this conversation I can`t convince you collectivists away from control. It`s over I can`t convince any of you.

But I will stick with my ideas I`ll be back for another debate and I will speak loudly I don`t back down don`t woory there will be another debate and I will bring all the proof I need to show you that your wrong.

At least you have chicken.

Damn it Leeroy!

[Tekania]

Religion is corruptive Objectivism is not religion it does not have to do with sprituial matters

If it looks like a duck... quacks like a duck.... It's a duck...

The only difference between you and a hell-fire preacher type, is a couple of words...

Let's see.... Religion: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.... A noun...

Let's see, a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature and purpose of the universe... Matches the viewpoints of humanity going to a completely self-centered, invidualism... And that being the "natural" course of one another... CHECK

Especially when considering the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies... Matches free-market corporatism and enterprise.. CHECK

Usually involves devotional or ritual observances... Matches well with adherence to property ritual... CHECK

Often contains a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.... Matches the principle of self-sovereignty as a moral... CHECK

Yep, it's a religion...

[Vervaria]

I've lost way too many brain cells in this thread. Will they ever come back?

[Dumb Ideologies]

I've lost way too many brain cells in this thread. Will they ever come back?

Of course they will. He'll come back too with PROOF. Do you not have faith?

[Ifreann]

I've lost way too many brain cells in this thread. Will they ever come back?

Only if you pray to the Free Market Fairy.

[Vervaria]

I've lost way too many brain cells in this thread. Will they ever come back?

Only if you pray to the Free Market Fairy.

She still owes me a thousand dollars, I have little faith in her ability to restore anything once she's taken it.

[Pure Metal]

-snip OP-

ok, will look at this from the bottom-up

1. i don't believe there are any inherent or natural rights. therefore all rights are granted by the legitimate authority (government). there is therefore no reason for positive rights not to be vaild.

2. positive rights are away of ensuring maximum happiness and opportunity (refer to Rawls)

3. i, and many others, see social freedoms as a lot more important than economic freedoms

4. the free market is full of market failures. the government needs to provide for these (such as public goods/services), and should also ensure any rights, and, since i believe in positive rights, then that includes them

5. free market economcs often assumes perfect knowledge. which does not exist IRL. firms can get away with a lot of bad practices and making bad goods without perfect knowledge or perfect competition.

6. without regulation, firms will not take into account many important externalities

7. under a free market, demerit goods will be overconsumed and merit goods will be underconsumed (eg education)

8. "I mean how can you make a profit by selling a bad [product]?" and "I also bet there would be less or no debt." - are you serious?


these are some of the reasons why i don't believe laissez-faire capitalism is much good, but a more balanced approach is needed (and, due to my belief in positive rights, it ends up being quite socialist by most people's standards...)

[Treznor]

Well I figured it out. All of you hate freedom it`s the only logical explination

Congratulations, Sir and/or Madam! You excel at what you do.

[Ald Rhun]

And this has been a rousing example of why friends don't let friends read Ayn Rand.

Tune in next week when HL discovers and preaches the glories of Mein Kampf!