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God can't think or create anything.

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Four-sided Triangles
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God can't think or create anything.

Postby Four-sided Triangles » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:39 pm

Note: This ONLY applies to the super-transcendent deity of the kind espoused by some monotheists high on Platonism and Aristotelian metaphysics.

A transcendent god is often described by believers as being "outside of" time and space. Because god is outside the flow of time and outside of location in space, he is able to be a non-contingent being, that is, a being whose existence is dependent on nothing external at all.

However, a major problem exists with this logic. If god does not reside within time and space, then god cannot think or act at all. The idea of a process is only coherent within the context of some notion of time. Creation is a process, as is conscious thought. Without a sense of time along which change occurs, any sense of a "process" occurring is incoherent and self-refuting. Therefore, if god is a perfect being which exists outside of time and space, "he" cannot act in any way, nor can he have any consciousness.

If, instead, god exists INSIDE of some flow of time, he becomes able to perform actions and have thoughts. However, he also becomes a contingent being, and thus both his transcendence and the "argument from contingency" utterly fail, not that the argument from contingency works even for a do-nothing deity.

In the quest to make god increasingly "perfect" and "transcendent," some theists have defined him so abstractly that he can't actually function as anything at all.
This is why gay marriage will destroy American families.
Gays are made up of gaytrinos and they interact via faggons, which are massless spin 2 particles. They're massless because gays care so much about their weight, and have spin 2, cause that's as much spin as particles can get, and liberals love spin. The exchange of spin 2 particles creates an attractive force between objects, which is why gays are so promiscuous. When gays get "settle down" into a lower energy state by marrying, they release faggon particles in the form of gaydiation. Everyone is a little bit gay, so every human body has some gaytrinos in it, meaning that the gaydiation could cause straight people to be attracted to gays and choose to turn gay.

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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:41 pm

Good argument, except if it's God, it can really do whatever the fuck it wants, logic and physical laws be damned.
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Four-sided Triangles
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Postby Four-sided Triangles » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:42 pm

As an added side note, this means that any attempts to necessarily define god out of the purview of any possible science are either wrong-headed or require a deity which couldn't have even created the universe.

Enjoy.
This is why gay marriage will destroy American families.
Gays are made up of gaytrinos and they interact via faggons, which are massless spin 2 particles. They're massless because gays care so much about their weight, and have spin 2, cause that's as much spin as particles can get, and liberals love spin. The exchange of spin 2 particles creates an attractive force between objects, which is why gays are so promiscuous. When gays get "settle down" into a lower energy state by marrying, they release faggon particles in the form of gaydiation. Everyone is a little bit gay, so every human body has some gaytrinos in it, meaning that the gaydiation could cause straight people to be attracted to gays and choose to turn gay.

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Postby Kleomentia » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:42 pm

God is not a being. He is life.
'nuff said.
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I'm quite sure Jesus didn't wish to know that.
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Four-sided Triangles
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Postby Four-sided Triangles » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:43 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:Good argument, except if it's God, it can really do whatever the fuck it wants, logic and physical laws be damned.


Then god is literally impossible. A god which can "fuck logic" is a god which, by definition, isn't even a concept and therefore cannot function as a subject or a predicate. It thus couldn't "exist" in any meaningful sense. Guaranteed.
This is why gay marriage will destroy American families.
Gays are made up of gaytrinos and they interact via faggons, which are massless spin 2 particles. They're massless because gays care so much about their weight, and have spin 2, cause that's as much spin as particles can get, and liberals love spin. The exchange of spin 2 particles creates an attractive force between objects, which is why gays are so promiscuous. When gays get "settle down" into a lower energy state by marrying, they release faggon particles in the form of gaydiation. Everyone is a little bit gay, so every human body has some gaytrinos in it, meaning that the gaydiation could cause straight people to be attracted to gays and choose to turn gay.

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Four-sided Triangles
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Postby Four-sided Triangles » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:45 pm

Kleomentia wrote:God is not a being. He is life.
'nuff said.


So the word "god" is just a synonym for the world "life"? Is that what you're saying?
This is why gay marriage will destroy American families.
Gays are made up of gaytrinos and they interact via faggons, which are massless spin 2 particles. They're massless because gays care so much about their weight, and have spin 2, cause that's as much spin as particles can get, and liberals love spin. The exchange of spin 2 particles creates an attractive force between objects, which is why gays are so promiscuous. When gays get "settle down" into a lower energy state by marrying, they release faggon particles in the form of gaydiation. Everyone is a little bit gay, so every human body has some gaytrinos in it, meaning that the gaydiation could cause straight people to be attracted to gays and choose to turn gay.

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Kleomentia
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Postby Kleomentia » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:47 pm

Four-sided Triangles wrote:
Kleomentia wrote:God is not a being. He is life.
'nuff said.


So the word "god" is just a synonym for the world "life"? Is that what you're saying?

I'm saying that most religions describe God as "some guy" and some even "some guy with a beard". I say that God is everything and everywhere. He is life. Though i'm a Orthodox Christian. Or maybe we all just got wrong what religions told us and turned God into a being.
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"In this primitive world of greed and stupidity, peace can only be achieved through fear, a brute military force which will unite the world under one flag!"
"We know nothing, but wish to do everything."
"Kosovo is Serbia! Failing to acknowledge that either proves your ignorance or lack of education."
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Galenaima wrote:
BLASPHEMY! THERE HE IS! IMMA CUMMIN' JESUS!!!

*jumps out window*

I'm quite sure Jesus didn't wish to know that.
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Distruzio
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Postby Distruzio » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:49 pm

Four-sided Triangles wrote: Therefore, if god is a perfect being which exists outside of time and space, "he" cannot act in any way, nor can he have any consciousness.


Of course this is true. Except that "He" can act in any way, and "He" does have a consciousness - both in a manner we cannot accurately fathom. ;)

I can presume that God is this or that way for my entire life and be a perfectly good Christian... and yet I'd be wrong in the end. Orthodoxy teaches that presuming to know the will of God, and the nature of God the Father, is sin. We can only hint at it. We cannot know it.
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Four-sided Triangles
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Postby Four-sided Triangles » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:50 pm

Kleomentia wrote:I'm saying that most religions describe God as "some guy" and some even "some guy with a beard". I say that God is everything and everywhere. He is life. Though i'm a Orthodox Christian. Or maybe we all just got wrong what religions told us and turned God into a being.


That sounds like pantheism, a.k.a. "sexed-up" atheism. It's where you use the word "god" as a synonym for "life, the universe, and everything."

I believe in "life, the universe, and everything." Can I therefore say that I believe in god, even though I don't think the universe is teleological and I think that everything is natural?
This is why gay marriage will destroy American families.
Gays are made up of gaytrinos and they interact via faggons, which are massless spin 2 particles. They're massless because gays care so much about their weight, and have spin 2, cause that's as much spin as particles can get, and liberals love spin. The exchange of spin 2 particles creates an attractive force between objects, which is why gays are so promiscuous. When gays get "settle down" into a lower energy state by marrying, they release faggon particles in the form of gaydiation. Everyone is a little bit gay, so every human body has some gaytrinos in it, meaning that the gaydiation could cause straight people to be attracted to gays and choose to turn gay.

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Postby Ashmoria » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:51 pm

maybe that is why god's plan had to include becoming man and working within the stream of time.
whatever

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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:52 pm

Four-sided Triangles wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Good argument, except if it's God, it can really do whatever the fuck it wants, logic and physical laws be damned.


Then god is literally impossible. A god which can "fuck logic" is a god which, by definition, isn't even a concept and therefore cannot function as a subject or a predicate. It thus couldn't "exist" in any meaningful sense. Guaranteed.

It created logic by most definitions. In fact, it created everything, perhaps even itself. Therefore logic has to put out, like any good daughter.
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Four-sided Triangles
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Postby Four-sided Triangles » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:52 pm

Distruzio wrote:Of course this is true. Except that "He" can act in any way, and "He" does have a consciousness - both in a manner we cannot accurately fathom.


That is nothing but a non-answer to an inescapable problem.
This is why gay marriage will destroy American families.
Gays are made up of gaytrinos and they interact via faggons, which are massless spin 2 particles. They're massless because gays care so much about their weight, and have spin 2, cause that's as much spin as particles can get, and liberals love spin. The exchange of spin 2 particles creates an attractive force between objects, which is why gays are so promiscuous. When gays get "settle down" into a lower energy state by marrying, they release faggon particles in the form of gaydiation. Everyone is a little bit gay, so every human body has some gaytrinos in it, meaning that the gaydiation could cause straight people to be attracted to gays and choose to turn gay.

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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:53 pm

Kleomentia wrote:
Four-sided Triangles wrote:
So the word "god" is just a synonym for the world "life"? Is that what you're saying?

I'm saying that most religions describe God as "some guy" and some even "some guy with a beard". I say that God is everything and everywhere. He is life. Though i'm a Orthodox Christian. Or maybe we all just got wrong what religions told us and turned God into a being.

Life as an essence generally does not have a penis.
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Postby Kleomentia » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:54 pm

Four-sided Triangles wrote:
Kleomentia wrote:I'm saying that most religions describe God as "some guy" and some even "some guy with a beard". I say that God is everything and everywhere. He is life. Though i'm a Orthodox Christian. Or maybe we all just got wrong what religions told us and turned God into a being.


That sounds like pantheism, a.k.a. "sexed-up" atheism. It's where you use the word "god" as a synonym for "life, the universe, and everything."

I believe in "life, the universe, and everything." Can I therefore say that I believe in god, even though I don't think the universe is teleological and I think that everything is natural?

Yes i believe in God, i just don't believe in the big guy in a shining chair.
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Also, wubwubwubwubwubwubWUBwubwubwubwubwubwub...

"In this primitive world of greed and stupidity, peace can only be achieved through fear, a brute military force which will unite the world under one flag!"
"We know nothing, but wish to do everything."
"Kosovo is Serbia! Failing to acknowledge that either proves your ignorance or lack of education."
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:
Galenaima wrote:
BLASPHEMY! THERE HE IS! IMMA CUMMIN' JESUS!!!

*jumps out window*

I'm quite sure Jesus didn't wish to know that.
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Four-sided Triangles
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Postby Four-sided Triangles » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:55 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:It created logic by most definitions.


That doesn't make any sense. Logic is not contingent. It doesn't have any physical or even metaphysical contingencies, and is entirely supported by tautology. It is self-referential and thus self-supporting. You can't "create" it. Saying "God created logic." is literally nothing but gibberish.
This is why gay marriage will destroy American families.
Gays are made up of gaytrinos and they interact via faggons, which are massless spin 2 particles. They're massless because gays care so much about their weight, and have spin 2, cause that's as much spin as particles can get, and liberals love spin. The exchange of spin 2 particles creates an attractive force between objects, which is why gays are so promiscuous. When gays get "settle down" into a lower energy state by marrying, they release faggon particles in the form of gaydiation. Everyone is a little bit gay, so every human body has some gaytrinos in it, meaning that the gaydiation could cause straight people to be attracted to gays and choose to turn gay.

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Postby Distruzio » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:56 pm

Four-sided Triangles wrote:
Distruzio wrote:Of course this is true. Except that "He" can act in any way, and "He" does have a consciousness - both in a manner we cannot accurately fathom.


That is nothing but a non-answer to an inescapable problem.


It's a denial that the problem is a problem. Another word for it is humility.
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Postby United States of Cascadia » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:56 pm

Kleomentia wrote:
Four-sided Triangles wrote:
So the word "god" is just a synonym for the world "life"? Is that what you're saying?

I'm saying that most religions describe God as "some guy" and some even "some guy with a beard". I say that God is everything and everywhere. He is life.

Yeah Pantheism!
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Four-sided Triangles
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Postby Four-sided Triangles » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:56 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:Life as an essence generally does not have a penis.


I think he's using "god" as a metaphorical personification of the universe. At least, that's what it seems like to me.
This is why gay marriage will destroy American families.
Gays are made up of gaytrinos and they interact via faggons, which are massless spin 2 particles. They're massless because gays care so much about their weight, and have spin 2, cause that's as much spin as particles can get, and liberals love spin. The exchange of spin 2 particles creates an attractive force between objects, which is why gays are so promiscuous. When gays get "settle down" into a lower energy state by marrying, they release faggon particles in the form of gaydiation. Everyone is a little bit gay, so every human body has some gaytrinos in it, meaning that the gaydiation could cause straight people to be attracted to gays and choose to turn gay.

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Postby Kleomentia » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:56 pm

United States of Cascadia wrote:
Kleomentia wrote:I'm saying that most religions describe God as "some guy" and some even "some guy with a beard". I say that God is everything and everywhere. He is life.

Yeah Pantheism!

Call it what you wish.
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Also, wubwubwubwubwubwubWUBwubwubwubwubwubwub...

"In this primitive world of greed and stupidity, peace can only be achieved through fear, a brute military force which will unite the world under one flag!"
"We know nothing, but wish to do everything."
"Kosovo is Serbia! Failing to acknowledge that either proves your ignorance or lack of education."
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:
Galenaima wrote:
BLASPHEMY! THERE HE IS! IMMA CUMMIN' JESUS!!!

*jumps out window*

I'm quite sure Jesus didn't wish to know that.
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:56 pm

Four-sided Triangles wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:It created logic by most definitions.


That doesn't make any sense. Logic is not contingent. It doesn't have any physical or even metaphysical contingencies, and is entirely supported by tautology. It is self-referential and thus self-supporting. You can't "create" it. Saying "God created logic." is literally nothing but gibberish.

Only gibberish according to logic.
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Postby Arkania 5 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:58 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Four-sided Triangles wrote:
That doesn't make any sense. Logic is not contingent. It doesn't have any physical or even metaphysical contingencies, and is entirely supported by tautology. It is self-referential and thus self-supporting. You can't "create" it. Saying "God created logic." is literally nothing but gibberish.

Only gibberish according to logic.


My Brain exploded.

I have to go clean it up now.
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Postby Kleomentia » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:59 pm

Arkania 5 wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Only gibberish according to logic.


My Brain exploded.

I have to go clean it up now.

I'll help you clean it up. I has vacuum.
NSG's God of Derp and Randomness, Monarchist&Capitalist and a patriotic Christian Serb
Also, wubwubwubwubwubwubWUBwubwubwubwubwubwub...

"In this primitive world of greed and stupidity, peace can only be achieved through fear, a brute military force which will unite the world under one flag!"
"We know nothing, but wish to do everything."
"Kosovo is Serbia! Failing to acknowledge that either proves your ignorance or lack of education."
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:
Galenaima wrote:
BLASPHEMY! THERE HE IS! IMMA CUMMIN' JESUS!!!

*jumps out window*

I'm quite sure Jesus didn't wish to know that.
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Postby Four-sided Triangles » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:00 pm

Distruzio wrote:It's a denial that the problem is a problem.


I agree. It is denial, just not in the way you mean.

Another word for it is humility.


There's a difference between humility and absolute credulity.

Then again, the "You're just too arrogant!" canard has been a favorite escape hatch of those pushing absurdities for thousands of years. Can't get them to accept logically impossible scenarios? Then just accuse them of being "arrogant" or "close-minded." That'll shut 'em up.
This is why gay marriage will destroy American families.
Gays are made up of gaytrinos and they interact via faggons, which are massless spin 2 particles. They're massless because gays care so much about their weight, and have spin 2, cause that's as much spin as particles can get, and liberals love spin. The exchange of spin 2 particles creates an attractive force between objects, which is why gays are so promiscuous. When gays get "settle down" into a lower energy state by marrying, they release faggon particles in the form of gaydiation. Everyone is a little bit gay, so every human body has some gaytrinos in it, meaning that the gaydiation could cause straight people to be attracted to gays and choose to turn gay.

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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:01 pm

Arkania 5 wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Only gibberish according to logic.


My Brain exploded.

I have to go clean it up now.

What are you going to trust, God or logic? I think God is a lot more powerful, judging from history.
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Postby Nazi Israel Land » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:01 pm

Four-sided Triangles wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Good argument, except if it's God, it can really do whatever the fuck it wants, logic and physical laws be damned.


Then god is literally impossible.

No, because it is G-d. Your mind simply cannot comprehend.

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