Do you belive in God?

[Farnhamia]

Why don't you just summarize it?

I can do my best, but in a bit. I have to head off for an hour or so. Good stuff (at least in the part I'm trying to share), lots of primary source citations, and hearty stuff most of us can agree on, but it's wordy. When I get back, I'll try to get it into bullet points.

As I'm sure you know, we'll be here.

[Norstal]

im sorry but the flying spaghetti monster church is not a bona fide religon, its pardy religon of christianity

And Christianity is a parody of Catholicism.

[Farnhamia]

im sorry but the flying spaghetti monster church is not a bona fide religon, its pardy religon of christianity

And Christianity is a parody of Catholicism.

Wha ...?

[Outlying States]

Yep, I believe in God. I floated around belief and disbelief for a number of years before I finally settled.

[Farnhamia]

Yep, I believe in God. I floated around belief and disbelief for a number of years before I finally settled.

And why did you settle on belief?

[Untaland]

I follow the 1st Reformed Church of Spongebeb Squarepants simply because I like its message of believe anything you want but please just use your imagination as much as possible.

That and I laugh my pants off at Spongebob and if its good enough for Bruce Willis its good enough for me

[Outlying States]

Yep, I believe in God. I floated around belief and disbelief for a number of years before I finally settled.

And why did you settle on belief?

It was a few things. In my teenage years I was an "im so much smarter than everyone else" angst-driven, athiest. As I matured I analyzed my beliefs in a more intelligent manner. In doing so I opened myself up to hearing counter arguments, which pulled me back more towards an agnostic point of view.

I also began attempting the "god, if you're up there..." kind of 're introductory' prayer. This led into more organized and philosophical prayer and I began to be able to analyze my life, what I was asking for, and what I was being given.

Those two events occurred vaguely along the same timeline, and over about 3 years or so I went from Athiest to Agnostic to Believer.

[Naurobia]

No i am an atheist and proud of it

[Norstal]

And why did you settle on belief?

It was a few things. In my teenage years I was an "im so much smarter than everyone else" angst-driven, athiest. As I matured I analyzed my beliefs in a more intelligent manner. In doing so I opened myself up to hearing counter arguments, which pulled me back more towards an agnostic point of view.

I also began attempting the "god, if you're up there..." kind of 're introductory' prayer. This led into more organized and philosophical prayer and I began to be able to analyze my life, what I was asking for, and what I was being given.

Those two events occurred vaguely along the same timeline, and over about 3 years or so I went from Athiest to Agnostic to Believer.

What logical arguments are these?

[Norstal]

And Christianity is a parody of Catholicism.

Wha ...?

Well, sounded better in my head.

[Outlying States]

It was a few things. In my teenage years I was an "im so much smarter than everyone else" angst-driven, athiest. As I matured I analyzed my beliefs in a more intelligent manner. In doing so I opened myself up to hearing counter arguments, which pulled me back more towards an agnostic point of view.

I also began attempting the "god, if you're up there..." kind of 're introductory' prayer. This led into more organized and philosophical prayer and I began to be able to analyze my life, what I was asking for, and what I was being given.

Those two events occurred vaguely along the same timeline, and over about 3 years or so I went from Athiest to Agnostic to Believer.

What logical arguments are these?

Im not sure what you are asking here- are you asking what logical arguments persuaded me, or are you saying that what I said above is illogical?

[Icekori]

THERE IS NO GOD

[Furious Grandmothers]

What logical arguments are these?

Im not sure what you are asking here- are you asking what logical arguments persuaded me, or are you saying that what I said above is illogical?

Are you saying that just because what you asked of god, you coincidentally and luckily received, that you believe in him?

[Italiani a Roma]

Im not sure what you are asking here- are you asking what logical arguments persuaded me, or are you saying that what I said above is illogical?

Are you saying that just because what you asked of god, you coincidentally and luckily received, that you believe in him?

I think what he is trying to say is that it is his personal belief, and not a logical choice, that led him to belief.

[Xenohumanity]

THERE IS NO GOD

Care to elaborate?

SO, ANYWHO... The notes I promised on the definition, purposes, and general types of religion.

PURPOSE
-Religions account for an 'higher' (inexplicable) level of being and/or serve to help humanity's collective neuroses and anxieties about mortality and meaninglessness
-Religion fulfills a psychological need for meaning and continuation (what point is it to carry on the genes you are given if it's all going to end up as a moot point anyway, what with heat-death and all?)
-We want to experience 'perfection', and must look for it in a reality not our own and beyond any collective group's capacity
-It helps to mitigate the stress brought on by personal problems and ailments by allowing both for the empathic 'sharing' of stress or by providing comfort in the knowledge that it is only a passing problem in the grand scheme of both your reality and all, true reality
-Religion helps to mitigate greed in societies that require cooperation between humans by showing that all are involved in a transpersonal reality and that such individualist avarice only serves to harm all
-People often find a need to 'thank' something for the scope, scale, and miracle that is the natural and man-made world, and many native religions serve that purpose
-All religions have some form of gnosis ('enlightenment'), some sort of knowledge of contact with a level of being beyond the mundane

---

TYPES/PURPOSES
-More dogmatic religions offer comfort to those who seek more concrete answers to the questions of life and death
--Knowledge and understanding coupled with faith and devotion results in enlightenment
-Mystic religions allow for self-discovery and a personal path to learning the 'truth'
--Directing yourself towards focusing extremely intently on the nature of the 'self' and the world as a living collective results in enlightenment
-Atheism sees no reality other than the physical and quantifiable
-Agnosticism places religion as a plane/being beyond any possible human understanding

---

THE NATURE OF TRANSPERSONAL/DIVINE/SACRED REALITY
-Different religions have different 'theories' or ideas, but all talk about essentially the same thing
-Can be present in the world or 'above' and outside it (immanent or transcendent)
-Can be personified as a deity, or left as part of the world-stuff as a universal whole(theism or monisticism)
-Sacred reality sometimes identified by believers as a human incarnation (Christ, Khrisna, Siddhartha, etc.)
-Differing opinions on the nature of the metaphysical result in the religious debates we have today

Honestly, I'm not even sure if this is contributing to the discussion in a way that hasn't already been talked about, but I gave it a shot.

[Ashmoria]

isnt there an ancient roman source that christians use to make the claim? something associated with nero?

I'm not sure what you're referring to. The Great Fire of Rome, in the summer of 64 CE, was blamed on the Christians by the Emperor, some say in an effort to divert attention from his own complicity. Of course, it's hard to tell from the acount in Tacitus if the Christians were confessing to being arsonists or Christians. Here's what Tacitus says:

As a consequence, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians [or Chrestians] by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but, even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. In accordance, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not as much of the crime of firing the city as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.

Tacitus is writing 30 years after the event, so there might have been people around who remembered.

yes that is what i was thinking of.

i think that later there were more gory details added by apologists whose only aim was to make the early christian martyrs seem more extreme in their willingness to die for their beliefs.

[Outlying States]

Im not sure what you are asking here- are you asking what logical arguments persuaded me, or are you saying that what I said above is illogical?

Are you saying that just because what you asked of god, you coincidentally and luckily received, that you believe in him?

Something like this. You say coincidentally, I say purposefully, neither of which could be proven to the standards either of us would require to change our minds.

[Furious Grandmothers]

Are you saying that just because what you asked of god, you coincidentally and luckily received, that you believe in him?

Something like this. You say coincidentally, I say purposefully, neither of which could be proven to the standards either of us would require to change our minds.

And of all the gods out there from Native American tradition, Viking mythology, Greek mythology, Hinduism, etc., you coincidentally and luckily asked the right god out of the millions of possible gods to ask? My point is, even if you had asked any other gods, or had never asked at all, what will happen happens anyway and you will receive all the same.

[Outlying States]

And of all the gods out there from Native American tradition, Viking mythology, Greek mythology, Hinduism, etc., you coincidentally and luckily asked the right god out of the millions of possible gods to ask? My point is, even if you had asked any other gods, or had never asked at all, what will happen happens anyway and you will receive all the same.

I would say that the first human conception of god(s) (whenever it was) through the most recent religious tradition today are all imperfect attempts at communing with the same higher power. So to answer your question, I wouldn't say I happened to ask the "right" one, but rather the same deity that all mankind has been attempting to reach through history.

Your last sentence cant be proved true or untrue. If something happens, you cannot prove that it would have happened regardless of any human or divine action that was taken, or because of it. Its a matter of opinion.

[Farnhamia]

Something like this. You say coincidentally, I say purposefully, neither of which could be proven to the standards either of us would require to change our minds.

And of all the gods out there from Native American tradition, Viking mythology, Greek mythology, Hinduism, etc., you coincidentally and luckily asked the right god out of the millions of possible gods to ask? My point is, even if you had asked any other gods, or had never asked at all, what will happen happens anyway and you will receive all the same.

You have to admit that Yahweh does have the best PR department of any of the gods.

[Demen 2]

No, there is no logical reasoning to, religion's job was to civilize many of the ancient peoples, who didn't have many (if any) set morals and did as they chose, the promise of a "heaven" would rationalize their behaviour.


It did its job, and now, it's creating more problems than ever before. To me, religion is a problem. And I want nothing to do with it.

[Pope Joan]

Why is a discussion about peanut butter supposed to be spam,
and this is NOT?

[Farnhamia]

No, there is no logical reasoning to, religion's job was to civilize many of the ancient peoples, who didn't have many (if any) set morals and did as they chose, the promise of a "heaven" would rationalize their behaviour.


It did its job, and now, it's creating more problems than ever before. To me, religion is a problem. And I want nothing to do with it.

Which ancient peoples would those be, just out of curiosity?

[Soviet Haaregrad]

I've reconsidered. I do believe in myself.

[The Truth and Light]

Sometimes I do believe in God but it is highly fleeting.