Anonymous to Occupy Wall Street and Create Megathread

[Sremski okrug]

Millions of uninsured Americans, people dying from curable diseases because they cannot afford medical treatment. Even the advisor to Ron Pauls election campaign in 2008 died because he could not afford medical treatment.

How is that "fine". Compared to me who can walk into a hospital and receive treatment without worrying about how i'm going to afford it or if my insurance will cover it.

Because people who have no interest in you are forced to pay it. It's unethical to force someone to pay for your treatment, if some people want to pay for your treatment then fine. But don't force others to pay for it using taxation.

It's not unethical to pay taxes that could be used to save someones life. I find it hypocritical that you support taxation to fund the military that kill people but you don't support taxation to fund the healthcare system that saves peoples lives.

[Forster Keys]

Millions of uninsured Americans, people dying from curable diseases because they cannot afford medical treatment. Even the advisor to Ron Pauls election campaign in 2008 died because he could not afford medical treatment.

How is that "fine". Compared to me who can walk into a hospital and receive treatment without worrying about how i'm going to afford it or if my insurance will cover it.

Because people who have no interest in you are forced to pay it. It's unethical to force someone to pay for your treatment, if some people want to pay for your treatment then fine. But don't force others to pay for it using taxation.

It's unethical in my books to refuse help to those you could help quite easily.

[Hippostania]

Because people who have no interest in you are forced to pay it. It's unethical to force someone to pay for your treatment, if some people want to pay for your treatment then fine. But don't force others to pay for it using taxation.

It's not unethical to pay taxes that could be used to save someones life. I find it hypocritical that you support taxation to fund the military that kill people but you don't support taxation to fund the healthcare system that saves peoples lives.

Armed Forces are necessary to proect the US from outside threats and possibly liberate other countries. Health care on the other hand is not necessary.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Because people who have no interest in you are forced to pay it. It's unethical to force someone to pay for your treatment, if some people want to pay for your treatment then fine. But don't force others to pay for it using taxation.

It's unethical in my books to refuse help to those you could help quite easily.

"In your book" being one operative phrase.
It happens to be the same for me.
But its more unethical in my book for other people to be required to suffer because some people don't want to make their own way in the world and pay for shit themselves or with a 2nd or 3rd party.

[Forster Keys]

It's unethical in my books to refuse help to those you could help quite easily.

"In your book" being one operative phrase.
It happens to be the same for me.
But its more unethical in my book for other people to be required to suffer because some people don't want to make their own way in the world and pay for shit themselves or with a 2nd or 3rd party.

Definitely is the operative phrase. Just stating my opinion, and that ethics are subjective.

Departing from that however, I don't see universal healthcare as much of a problem if its the majority's will. If a minority disagree, then tough. It's how democracy works.

[Occupied Deutschland]

"In your book" being one operative phrase.
It happens to be the same for me.
But its more unethical in my book for other people to be required to suffer because some people don't want to make their own way in the world and pay for shit themselves or with a 2nd or 3rd party.

Definitely is the operative phrase. Just stating my opinion, and that ethics are subjective.

Departing from that however, I don't see universal healthcare as much of a problem if its the majority's will. If a minority disagree, then tough. It's how democracy works.

Which is why we're not supposed to be Democratic.

But anyhow, I'll end that threadjack, how about those Anon guys?

[Arse Biscuits Yum]

Take a look at Ireland's health-care system. The poorer you are, the better coverage you get. Nobody complains about the taxes because they're all used to it. And they're in one of the deepest recessions they have ever had. Sometimes you need to make sacrifices for the good of the people.

[Forster Keys]

It's not unethical to pay taxes that could be used to save someones life. I find it hypocritical that you support taxation to fund the military that kill people but you don't support taxation to fund the healthcare system that saves peoples lives.

Armed Forces are necessary to proect the US from outside threats and possibly liberate other countries. Health care on the other hand is not necessary.

So it's ethical to invade a smaller country for strategic or material gain, killing untold numbers of civillians, but it's a travesty to provide a comprehensive social system to keep the disadvantaged from dying?

[Ifreann]

It's not unethical to pay taxes that could be used to save someones life. I find it hypocritical that you support taxation to fund the military that kill people but you don't support taxation to fund the healthcare system that saves peoples lives.

Armed Forces are necessary to proect the US from outside threats and possibly liberate other countries. Health care on the other hand is not necessary.

It's okay to be forced to pay for the military to defend the guy two blocks over, but being forced to pay for the medical treatment to keep him alive is out of the question. Because why, exactly?

[Volnotova]

:palm:

"Anonymous" can go die.

Aren't you an anarchist who thinks all state society should be destroyed?

Should? No, I am not a moralist. Also, the ends justify the means; even if it means pitting the state against your enemies.

Those people that call themselfs "Anonymous" and want to raid the NYSE seek to create a very different kind world.

One of pure chaos.

What I oppose is a monopoly on the legal use of force and a ruling class.

I do not oppose elitism, hierarchy, authority, leadership, class(including a class of leaders), indoctrination, propaganda, political violence, order or nationalism.

I am an Anarchist, yes. But that is about it; I truly don't understand all the angst(and not just of certain anarchists/libertarians) surrounding hierarchy, authority, nationalism, etc.

In order for society to function it needs order; even if it means instilling that order trough ndoctrination, propaganda, hierarchy and political violence.

[Forster Keys]

Definitely is the operative phrase. Just stating my opinion, and that ethics are subjective.

Departing from that however, I don't see universal healthcare as much of a problem if its the majority's will. If a minority disagree, then tough. It's how democracy works.

Which is why we're not supposed to be Democratic.

But anyhow, I'll end that threadjack, how about those Anon guys?

Erkh. Now we must define democracy.

Yeah, those Anon guys are really... Anonymous and whatnot. Nobody knows who they are.

[Ifreann]

Take a look at Ireland's health-care system. The poorer you are, the better coverage you get. Nobody complains about the taxes because they're all used to it. And they're in one of the deepest recessions they have ever had. Sometimes you need to make sacrifices for the good of the people.

People complain about taxes here all the damned time. Seriously, nobody likes paying taxes.

[Ifreann]

Which is why we're not supposed to be Democratic.

But anyhow, I'll end that threadjack, how about those Anon guys?

Erkh. Now we must define democracy.

Yeah, those Anon guys are really... Anonymous and whatnot. Nobody knows who they are.

Apart from the ones that get arrested every once in a while.

[Hippostania]

Armed Forces are necessary to proect the US from outside threats and possibly liberate other countries. Health care on the other hand is not necessary.

It's okay to be forced to pay for the military to defend the guy two blocks over, but being forced to pay for the medical treatment to keep him alive is out of the question. Because why, exactly?

Armed Forces and the police are needed to prevent the society from slipping into chaos. Health care is not needed, because we can fully function without state-run health care.

[Forster Keys]

Erkh. Now we must define democracy.

Yeah, those Anon guys are really... Anonymous and whatnot. Nobody knows who they are.

Apart from the ones that get arrested every once in a while.

I don't know who they are...

[Ifreann]

Apart from the ones that get arrested every once in a while.

I don't know who they are...

Well, I imagine someone does. Otherwise arresting them must have been an interesting experience.

[Volnotova]

It's okay to be forced to pay for the military to defend the guy two blocks over, but being forced to pay for the medical treatment to keep him alive is out of the question. Because why, exactly?

Armed Forces and the police are needed to prevent the society from slipping into chaos. Health care is not needed, because we can fully function without state-run health care.

There are more things needed to prevent society from slipping into chaos(If you are insinuating that all you need are Armed Forces and the police).

Also, I believe you mean State-run healthcare is not needed(At least I hope).

That said, how is ending corporate subsidies and bailouts undemocratic? What does that have to do with democracy? And why support something that is opposed to the free market(corporate subisides and bailouts = state intervention = opposed to free market)?.

[Forster Keys]

I don't know who they are...

Well, I imagine someone does. Otherwise arresting them must have been an interesting experience.

Well, if they wore their masks constantly you could probably manage it. Even if the legalities were a bit sketchy.

[Arse Biscuits Yum]

Take a look at Ireland's health-care system. The poorer you are, the better coverage you get. Nobody complains about the taxes because they're all used to it. And they're in one of the deepest recessions they have ever had. Sometimes you need to make sacrifices for the good of the people.

People complain about taxes here all the damned time. Seriously, nobody likes paying taxes.

People complain about some people paying too much tax and some people paying no tax, but not tax in general

[Ifreann]

People complain about taxes here all the damned time. Seriously, nobody likes paying taxes.

People complain about some people paying too much tax and some people paying no tax, but not tax in general

Not tax in general, no, I guess not.

[Ovisterra]

People complain about taxes here all the damned time. Seriously, nobody likes paying taxes.

People complain about some people paying too much tax and some people paying no tax, but not tax in general

The Irish are so politically apathetic that though we all complain, no one does anything.

[Hippostania]

Also, I believe you mean State-run healthcare is not needed(At least I hope).

Yeah, that's what I meant

[Yavin 1221]

So... no anon attack?

[The Matthew Islands]

Are you making a deliberate effort to be offensive there? Or is it just coming out naturally?

It's coming out naturally. I just don't like it when someone claims that the government ''has to act on behalf of the poor people''. That is not the government's duty! You're responsible for yourself, you and you only. Nobody else isn't going to help you, especially not the government.

Wow. Its going to be so interesting to see how you respond if the market ever takes a dump on you.

Also, aren't you from Finland? If so, I assume that because you are so against state run health care, you yourself never actually use it?

[Hippostania]

It's coming out naturally. I just don't like it when someone claims that the government ''has to act on behalf of the poor people''. That is not the government's duty! You're responsible for yourself, you and you only. Nobody else isn't going to help you, especially not the government.

Wow. Its going to be so interesting to see how you respond if the market ever takes a dump on you.

Also, aren't you from Finland? If so, I assume that because you are so against state run health care, you yourself never actually use it?

Nope, I go to a private clinic. It's a bit more expensive but at least I don't have to wait for weeks to get treatment.