Anonymous to Occupy Wall Street and Create Megathread

[Malgrave]

I'm liking the continued coverage of the protests by the Young Turks.

In all honesty, I don’t...

I began watching The Young Turks because they were a refreshingly honest news outlet, providing a much needed non-mainstream bias to the American news.

However, they have become far more strident in their opinions as of late, culminating in the forming of the Wolf-PACs. They have effectively stopped being a news outlet and become agitators instead.

I find myself agreeing with most of the points that they make. But I must admit that I find the changed tone of their show quite disturbing...

Well reality does have a well known liberal bias
I support the Wolf-PAC. Getting money out of politic is a good idea and you can see how it has corrupted American politics if you just compare the amount of campaign spending in the last American election to the last election in the United Kingdom.

[Malgrave]

I stopped watching them when they referred to a bill as a GOP plan to kill the post office.
Never mind the only opposition to the bill was from the GOP and more Democrats voted for it then the Republicans. It was a GOP bill.

I never started, although I almost did. I Google searched, and in the description the show was being described as "smart" and "irreverent", which are nothin.g more than codewords for "smug, self-absorbed assholes who mock people who think something different."

You should actually watch the show and gather an opinion then.

[Robinson]

Oh really Anonymous occupy Wall Street, for what, too much t.v. not none of them understand real-estate, banking, or law just confusion which seems to help the elite out anyway. What happen to having a Mature debate on the issue that will make more sense and be able to actually solve problems at hand... but divided we fall and fail, they still go off of black and white aint we all equal Americans,but we are in a state where the Wall street elite goes off on divide and conquer using the 48 Laws of power, how can they(anonymous) ever succeeded? Just seem to be childish...organize confusion at its best

[Andaluciae]

I never started, although I almost did. I Google searched, and in the description the show was being described as "smart" and "irreverent", which are nothin.g more than codewords for "smug, self-absorbed assholes who mock people who think something different."

You should actually watch the show and gather an opinion then.

You read the dust jacket of the book, before you check it out from the library. I'm not going to waste my time on tripe.

If that's how they choose to describe themselves, then its not worth my time investment.

[New Conglomerate]

I never started, although I almost did. I Google searched, and in the description the show was being described as "smart" and "irreverent", which are nothin.g more than codewords for "smug, self-absorbed assholes who mock people who think something different."

You should actually watch the show and gather an opinion then.

To be fair, they're about three news fabrications away from being a left-wing FOX news.

[Malgrave]

You should actually watch the show and gather an opinion then.

To be fair, they're about three news fabrications away from being a left-wing FOX news.

I don't see any news fabrications though.

[Andaluciae]

You should actually watch the show and gather an opinion then.

To be fair, they're about three news fabrications away from being a left-wing FOX news.

I feel like the reason I don't watch Bill O'Reilly is roughly similar as to why I don't watch the Young Turks, Glenn Beck, Hannity or any of the other commentary clowns. They're all just various breeds of mental masturbation. Designed to get people who already agree with them to watch their shows. The siloization of the electorate is a major part of the problem we ate facing right now, and these dipshits are doing nothing to resolve it.

[Andaluciae]

To be fair, they're about three news fabrications away from being a left-wing FOX news.

I don't see any news fabrications though.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=136743&p=7633689#p7633689

If true, that definitely counts.

[Bust Nexus]

I'm surprised the OWS movement hasn't started calling out for weekly/monthly/whatever boycotts at this stage of the game (first its sit-ins then boycotts iirc).

[Genivaria]

Former Philadelphia Police Captain Ray Lewis Joins With Occupy Wall Street Protesters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocdnl4XlTOU

http://www.observer.com/2011/11/former- ... ers-video/

[Brickistan]

To be fair, they're about three news fabrications away from being a left-wing FOX news.

I feel like the reason I don't watch Bill O'Reilly is roughly similar as to why I don't watch the Young Turks, Glenn Beck, Hannity or any of the other commentary clowns. They're all just various breeds of mental masturbation. Designed to get people who already agree with them to watch their shows. The siloization of the electorate is a major part of the problem we ate facing right now, and these dipshits are doing nothing to resolve it.

I think you’re onto something important here. Unfortunately, the idea of the independent and impartial journalist is long gone. These days it’s just so incredibly difficult to get unbiased truthful news. It’s truly depressing...

The importance of The Young Turks, to me, is that they provide a bias that’s not really seen in American mainstream-media. Take their coverage of the Occupy movements, for example. The mainstream-media seems to be trying their hardest to either smear them or simply ignore them. The Young Turks, on the other hand, actually went down on the street and talked with them, letting people see what’s going on.

Are they unbiased? Certainly not. But then again, no American media can claim that these days. But they do provide another, and much needed, slant on the news.

And, to a European like me at least, it’s kinda refreshing to see a news-show that’s not afraid to call out the politicians on all the bull that they’re sprouting. Take their coverage of the Koch brothers or the Super Committee, for example, it’s actually quite enlightening and something that all Americans should be watching...

[Shofercia]

Looks like Mikey Bloomberg ignored a court order for a few hours, so I'm guessing - contempt of court, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a criminal offense that could lend someone in jail? Or do the billionaires get a free pass on misdemeanors?

Keep on believing that fairy tale. If I had to merely clean Zucotti Park, I'd divide the park into four quadrants, give the protesters a 20 hour notice, not 20 minute notice, and clean it up in quadrants, letting the protesters return to their quadrant once it was cleaned up. I wouldn't do it in the middle of the night, with bulldozers, riot police, a 10 to 20 minute notice, and forcing the protesters to have their bags checked the next day they try to enter the public space. NYPD was hoping to incite the protesters. They failed. Now the OWS will have more support than ever, and Bloomberg will go down in history as a moron.

The park is privately owned and operated but open to the public. It is very different than public space. Just clearing that part up, no real arguments against your position tho.

Thank you for the clarification

My point was that since Brookfield opted to have it open to the public for taxes and/or PR purposes, they don't get to shout "well it's erm private, so buzz off".

*sighs* another banker commenting on the OWS. As if we need more people getting the facts wrong:

I was actually aware of the first attempt, and had phrased my post with it in mind. Afterall, the request for police assistance was withdrawn. This time it wasn't, end of story. The idea that this is somehow the oppression of a protest is ridiculous, since all sides have said they're happy for the protests to continue. Just not the camping.

In the real World, riot police, bulldozers, arrests, keeping the press away from the scene, and forceful evictions that don't give the public over twenty minutes to move out, as well as beating up local leaders and jailing them for seventeen hours for observing the protests with a proper pass - all of that counts as oppression.

Two weeks of off-again, on-again negotiations followed, in which the crowd was repeatedly asked to stop camping. They could protest as long as they wanted (even though their application had only covered one afternoon). Eventually the police had enough and moved in at night, removing everyone from the premises and arrested a couple of people. Basically the same thing as now in NY.

NYPD beat up, pepper sprayed, and arrested hundreds of protesters, so no, it's not the same thing. This is Occupy Wall Street, not Occupy Sydney.

Brave internet tough guy here.

Said the poster who boldly responded to an Anon announcement.

The city of New York ignored its own zoning and health codes for weeks out of a willingness to indulge and facilitate the protesters speech. They went above and beyond the call in indulging this camping trip as long as they did.

So if you don't pay your rent, I get to evict you with bulldozers, pepper spray, destroy some of your books, and only give you twenty minutes to pack? Gotcha.

The KPD, Rosa Luxembourg and the other links-radikal howed the row for Hitler to sow.

Actually that was the Versailles Treaty, the poor enforcement of said treaty, and the Great Depression, but don't let facts get in the way of you blaming commies.

The internet is for porn, and it's a case study of self-selection. Those of us who are involved and concerned make up a tiny fraction of the population. The bulk of users float around on ebaumsworld, brazzers, deadspin and whatnot. The internet has made it easier to become disengaged, to replace actual activism with clicking a like button, or upvoting. The government doesn't need to restrict the internet. Look around. This is the Brave New World, Huxley, not Orwell, was right. Don't be ridiculous. You are you. You are alone. "Clicktivism" won't achieve anything.

Ok, this, I am going to take issue with. If someone is a member of an organization calling itself a "legion", then he can say "we are legion". Considering the responses that he's getting, he's very clearly not alone. Internet is for a lot more than porn, and NSG aren't a tiny fraction of the population, with the rest of e-browsers going for porn. Everything in the above paragraph that you "wrote" - although that is too nice a word for the quality - is your opinion, and in my opinion, your paragraph is cocky, arrogant and obnoxious bullshit. Youtube has more hits than Youporn, Xtube, and all of those sites combined. That's a fact. In terms of videos alone, the internet isn't even primarily for porn. Oh, and Internet made activism easier - because it enables the people to communicate with one another, without fear. And it just makes communication easier, and all voices are heard online.

The Internet is news. It is the Media Highway. It's how we get our info. It lets the people choose, and it freaks out people like you, for the same reason that RT does: they show everything, and let the people choose, and you feel too insecure for the people to choose, cause you think you're so damn elitist and right. It's obvious in your writing:

Those of us who are involved and concerned make up a tiny fraction of the population

Seriously - what the fuck? I don't know what sites you browse, but that's not my opinion at all. On NSG, even Hippostania is able to comprehend what he reads, well partially, but still. That can't be done without doing the reading. That can't be done by watching Porn. You aren't the only one concerned. A tiny fraction aren't the only ones concerned. I actually did a forum study, and found opposite results. Granted, that's just my opinion, based on a study that I've done, but yours is just an elitist opinion based on what you browsed. Finally:

"Clicktivism" won't achieve anything

Yeah, my experience in 2008 proved to be the exact opposite. We took on corporate and government media, and we won. Got Fox News to delete 40 million Google Hits, majorly embarrassed CNN, and forced the Kremlin to honestly report both sides of the Ossetian War. Today if someone says that Russia started the war, or that there were thousands of civilian casualties - we call those people crazy. Today the war is called the Ossetian War, not "Ebul Russia beat up Poor Georgia War". Today everyone can speak out about the war, in Russia, in Georgia, in America, everywhere. And be honest. And not be afraid of the government. And not be marginalized, or made to look like an idiot. The same wasn't true about Chechnya. So don't bullshit me about Internet Activism being hopeless, cause I KNOW that it's not true.

[Shofercia]

I've often viewed the internet as the modern "printing press". It is a revolutionary tool, or can be, much like the original printing press was during the 1400's and onward. Of course like all media, the user must possess a discriminating mind.

Very true

The siloization of the electorate is a major part of the problem we ate facing right now, and these dipshits are doing nothing to resolve it.

Actually it's the two party system that's doing the siloization. If US was to move towards a multi-party democracy, there would instantly be less siloization.

The importance of The Young Turks, to me, is that they provide a bias that’s not really seen in American mainstream-media. Take their coverage of the Occupy movements, for example. The mainstream-media seems to be trying their hardest to either smear them or simply ignore them. The Young Turks, on the other hand, actually went down on the street and talked with them, letting people see what’s going on.

Are they unbiased? Certainly not. But then again, no American media can claim that these days. But they do provide another, and much needed, slant on the news.

And, to a European like me at least, it’s kinda refreshing to see a news-show that’s not afraid to call out the politicians on all the bull that they’re sprouting. Take their coverage of the Koch brothers or the Super Committee, for example, it’s actually quite enlightening and something that all Americans should be watching...

That's a good point


Anyone else watching Olbermann? I liked his "Bloomberg Speech"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoG9PmdGaT8

[Lacadaemon]

Looks like Mikey Bloomberg ignored a court order for a few hours, so I'm guessing - contempt of court, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a criminal offense that could lend someone in jail? Or do the billionaires get a free pass on misdemeanors?

Nah. It would be the City that would be in contempt, not the Mayor, I'd guess. Also, it's most likely civil contempt, and so since the order is no longer applicable there's no reason to compel the city to obey it. The fact that it was ignored for a few hours is neither here no there at this point.

[Shofercia]

Looks like Mikey Bloomberg ignored a court order for a few hours, so I'm guessing - contempt of court, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a criminal offense that could lend someone in jail? Or do the billionaires get a free pass on misdemeanors?

Nah. It would be the City that would be in contempt, not the Mayor, I'd guess. Also, it's most likely civil contempt, and so since the order is no longer applicable there's no reason to compel the city to obey it. The fact that it was ignored for a few hours is neither here no there at this point.

Well you can't hold the city in contempt, since the city cannot defy a court order - so it'd be the mayor. But if you're right - does that mean that an official can just disobey a court order for a few hours, and get away with it?

[Neu Leonstein]

In the real World, riot police, bulldozers, arrests, keeping the press away from the scene, and forceful evictions that don't give the public over twenty minutes to move out, as well as beating up local leaders and jailing them for seventeen hours for observing the protests with a proper pass - all of that counts as oppression.

In the same way that not buying your 16-year old daughter a car for her birthday does. The first amendment does not cover camping. The protest was in no way suppressed or oppressed. They will, in fact, continue. The only thing that happened here is that a few wannabe revolutionaries did not follow police orders. Perhaps some members of the police overreacted, I don't know. If so, I want those people on trial, as has always been my view on police activity. But that does not make for the kind of political oppression certain people seem to be so eager to claim.

NYPD beat up, pepper sprayed, and arrested hundreds of protesters, so no, it's not the same thing. This is Occupy Wall Street, not Occupy Sydney.

The protests were smaller in Sydney. Other than that, people were pepper sprayed and arrested, and maybe beaten (though it doesn't take much to have somebody call 'beating' in these cases).

[Shofercia]

In the real World, riot police, bulldozers, arrests, keeping the press away from the scene, and forceful evictions that don't give the public over twenty minutes to move out, as well as beating up local leaders and jailing them for seventeen hours for observing the protests with a proper pass - all of that counts as oppression.

In the same way that not buying your 16-year old daughter a car for her birthday does. The first amendment does not cover camping. The protest was in no way suppressed or oppressed. They will, in fact, continue. The only thing that happened here is that a few wannabe revolutionaries did not follow police orders. Perhaps some members of the police overreacted, I don't know. If so, I want those people on trial, as has always been my view on police activity. But that does not make for the kind of political oppression certain people seem to be so eager to claim.

I'm pointing out that the manner in which they were booted out of the park was oppressive, which it was. The police orders weren't sensible. You need more than 20 minutes to move out. You don't need to bring in bulldozers. You don't need to arrest leaders of the group and media, and hold them in jail for seventeen hours. That's my point that you keep on missing, quite deliberately, while talking about camping and cars.

They've been there for months. What difference would a few more hours make? Why not do it during daylight? Why ban the media? You're supposed to show human decency when you're enforcing the law, not a nighttime raid.

NYPD beat up, pepper sprayed, and arrested hundreds of protesters, so no, it's not the same thing. This is Occupy Wall Street, not Occupy Sydney.

The protests were smaller in Sydney. Other than that, people were pepper sprayed and arrested, and maybe beaten (though it doesn't take much to have somebody call 'beating' in these cases).

I'd call someone who's bleeding from the head - beaten up, wouldn't you? Mass arrests aren't the same as a few arrests, and pepper spray isn't the same as a bulldozer attacking you. And pepper spray really shouldn't be used against peaceful protesters.

[Cosmopoles]

They've been there for months. What difference would a few more hours make? Why not do it during daylight?

Because the violence would have been far greater due to the larger number of protestors at the site and better organised resistance.

[Brickistan]

In all honesty, I don’t...

I began watching The Young Turks because they were a refreshingly honest news outlet, providing a much needed non-mainstream bias to the American news.

However, they have become far more strident in their opinions as of late, culminating in the forming of the Wolf-PACs. They have effectively stopped being a news outlet and become agitators instead.

I find myself agreeing with most of the points that they make. But I must admit that I find the changed tone of their show quite disturbing...

Well reality does have a well known liberal bias
I support the Wolf-PAC. Getting money out of politic is a good idea and you can see how it has corrupted American politics if you just compare the amount of campaign spending in the last American election to the last election in the United Kingdom.

Oh, I certainly agree with you regarding the Wolf-PACs.

But...

One of main complains I have about American news media is how they’re basically just outlets for the political parties. I mean: look at Fox “so-called” News. If I didn’t know any better I’d say they were bought by the right-wing parties to... Oh... Wait... They are...

And now, sadly, The Young Turks have “sold out” and placed themselves in much the same position for the left-wing grassroots movement. No, they’ve not been bought out, but they might as well have been, considering the hard-left turn their shows have taken over the last few months.

And I don’t like that. Fair enough that they call out Fox on their right-wing spin and provide a left-wing spin as a counter. But now that they’ve set themselves up pretty much as the outlet for the Occupy movement... Well... They’re far more akin to agitators than reporters these days...

They've been there for months. What difference would a few more hours make? Why not do it during daylight?

Because the violence would have been far greater due to the larger number of protestors at the site and better organised resistance.

You don’t really believe that, do you?

Night-time operation? No news-crews allowed? No news-choppers in the air? Internet streams taken down?

Come on... It’s pretty clear that this isn’t about avoiding violence – it’s about getting it done quickly and without witnesses.

[Cosmopoles]

You don’t really believe that, do you?

Night-time operation? No news-crews allowed? No news-choppers in the air? Internet streams taken down?

Come on... It’s pretty clear that this isn’t about avoiding violence – it’s about getting it done quickly and without witnesses.

Are there a lack of witnesses to the clearance?

[Brickistan]

You don’t really believe that, do you?

Night-time operation? No news-crews allowed? No news-choppers in the air? Internet streams taken down?

Come on... It’s pretty clear that this isn’t about avoiding violence – it’s about getting it done quickly and without witnesses.

Are there a lack of witnesses to the clearance?

There are certainly not any "official" witnesses, no. But then again, I somehow doubt that the press would have reported it anyway. Damn commy unemployed hippy bums that the occupiers are...

I’m reminded of the saying that “if you’ve got nothing to hide then you’ve got nothing to fear” that the authoritarian right likes to use whenever they tighten the screw. Well, then... What does the police have to hide? Why not allow the press to see what’s going on?

[The Lone Alliance]

You don’t really believe that, do you?

Night-time operation? No news-crews allowed? No news-choppers in the air? Internet streams taken down?

Come on... It’s pretty clear that this isn’t about avoiding violence – it’s about getting it done quickly and without witnesses.

Are there a lack of witnesses to the clearance?

How about reporters that were kicked out and beaten by the police and how they restricted airspace over the area to prevent News helicopters from showing up.

There was a deliberate Media blackout and you'd be a fool to think otherwise.

[Cosmopoles]

There are certainly not any "official" witnesses, no. But then again, I somehow doubt that the press would have reported it anyway. Damn commy unemployed hippy bums that the occupiers are...

Yeah, because it totally hasn't been in the news, has it? Its not as though major news sources such as the Guradian were reporting literally minute by minute what was happening.

Oh, wait...

I’m reminded of the saying that “if you’ve got nothing to hide then you’ve got nothing to fear” that the authoritarian right likes to use whenever they tighten the screw. Well, then... What does the police have to hide? Why not allow the press to see what’s going on?

Except the press did see what was going on, hence the accounts from various news sources, pictures, videos etc.

[Yootwopia]

There was a deliberate Media blackout and you'd be a fool to think otherwise.

This sounds strange to me, because it was covered pretty closely in the UK, including by the BBC.

[Neu Leonstein]

-snip-

-snip-

"The media is against us" has been part of OWS's self-understanding from Day One. It's part of the identity the movement constructs for itself. They're claiming to have broad public support, and being to be the 99%. The media, and "mainstream" public discourse, to the extent to which it doesn't fully support everything OWS does, must be controlled by that other 1%. Otherwise the whole "us" vs "them" thing starts getting more and more grey and blurry.

And we can't have that.