Anonymous to Occupy Wall Street and Create Megathread

[Greed and Death]

Because financial institutions have a right to do whatever the hell they want, and no government may limit or restrict their operation

You've not actually answered my question. You believe that corporations have the right to use money that is not theirs to gamble on the international investment markets? Financial regulation provides the environment for real economic growth not a series of bubbles. Why do you think the Canadian financial system held together so well? Proper financial regulation was the cause.

Likely has more to do with having a high mineral export rate like Australia.
When your country exports things pulled out of the ground you tend to focus investments on that.
As it stands right now even government bonds have been failing, Kinda hard to imgine any country with regulation that would forbid investing in government bonds.

[Malgrave]

You've not actually answered my question. You believe that corporations have the right to use money that is not theirs to gamble on the international investment markets? Financial regulation provides the environment for real economic growth not a series of bubbles. Why do you think the Canadian financial system held together so well? Proper financial regulation was the cause.

Likely has more to do with having a high mineral export rate like Australia.
When your country exports things pulled out of the ground you tend to focus investments on that.
As it stands right now even government bonds have been failing, Kinda hard to imgine any country with regulation that would forbid investing in government bonds.

I'm talking about the Canadian financial system as in the banking system compared to the American one not the economy on a whole.

[Andaluciae]

I generally support the movement. Just hope cooler heads prevail. Although hopefully they are weary of "agent provoceteurs".

By and large, the charge of "Agents provocateurs" seems like nothing more than displacement, identity defense, and scapegoating. To somehow disbelieve that there might be people aligned with a movement, who are perfectly capable of doing bad things just seems silly.

[Yootwopia]

Anyone sort of wishing that the protesters had been holding placards saying "Keine Gewalt" before getting rammed into the Jailbus that showed up?

Know I do.

[Zaras]

More regulation

NO NO NO NO NO!
Why in the hell do the Democrats and leftists always want more regulations? More regulations, more laws, more limitations! Why would anyone want more regulations? We need less regulations, not more.

The usual people who scream for less regulations are already privileged and just want to increase that amount of privilege. The dispossessed and less-than-filthy-rich have all good reasons to see further regulations, since they might get shafted by those above them.

[Keronians]

More regulation

NO NO NO NO NO!
Why in the hell do the Democrats and leftists always want more regulations? More regulations, more laws, more limitations! Why would anyone want more regulations? We need less regulations, not more.

Because regulations actually keep the market working for the general population, rather than an elite.

[Zaras]

NO NO NO NO NO!
Why in the hell do the Democrats and leftists always want more regulations? More regulations, more laws, more limitations! Why would anyone want more regulations? We need less regulations, not more.

Because regulations actually keep the market working for the general population, rather than an elite.

Yes, the general population wants trygghet, the elite goes all "I got mine, screw you."

[Zaras]

Do you think that financial institutions should be allowed to take money from high street operations and use them to gamble more money on high risk international investment? Regulation would prevent this and would mean that investment corporations have to invest their own money and when they screw up they pay for their own mistakes not the middle class, small businesses and the high street economy.

Regulations protect the economy, the consumer and the corporations.

Because financial institutions have a right to do whatever the hell they want, and no government may limit or restrict their operation

I see. The elite get to do whatever they want, but when the non-elite try to assert their rights, POLEECE TIME.

[Sskiss]

I generally support the movement. Just hope cooler heads prevail. Although hopefully they are weary of "agent provoceteurs".

By and large, the charge of "Agents provocateurs" seems like nothing more than displacement, identity defense, and scapegoating. To somehow disbelieve that there might be people aligned with a movement, who are perfectly capable of doing bad things just seems silly.

That's not what I've seen in Montreal and Toronto. During the G8 and G20 Bru ha ha's they (the agent provoceteurs) were caught in the act on at least a couple of occasions. I saw on video were these so called protesters looked suspiciously like "cops in disguise" - wearing black clothing and face mask etc... The play act at provoking the police so that they can bust up the protest and it makes the protesters, once again, look bad. Its a very common tactic.

Basically its done to make the movement look bad because the media is always around. Also, these people torch police cars which burn but don't explode, meaning that the gas tank is empty... Very suspicious...

[New Conglomerate]

Because financial institutions have a right to do whatever the hell they want, and no government may limit or restrict their operation

I see. The elite get to do whatever they want, but when the non-elite try to assert their rights, POLEECE TIME.

Dude, it's useless arguing with him. He's a really clever satire of neoconservatism. Or someone paid by China to make the American Right look bad.

One of those.

[Alte Koniggratz]

The NY Lawyers Guild received a court order that states that the City of New York may NOT enforce park rules on the protesters, because it hampers their First Amendment Rights to peaceful protest.

"New York, NY: At around 6 AM on November 15, 2011, attorneys associated with the New York City Chapter of the National Lawyers Guild working as the Liberty Park Legal Working Group obtained a restraining order against the City of New York, various City agencies, and Brookfield properties directing that occupiers be allowed back on the premises with their belongings."

[New Conglomerate]

By and large, the charge of "Agents provocateurs" seems like nothing more than displacement, identity defense, and scapegoating. To somehow disbelieve that there might be people aligned with a movement, who are perfectly capable of doing bad things just seems silly.

That's not what I've seen in Montreal and Toronto. During the G8 and G20 Bru ha ha's they (the agent provoceteurs) were caught in the act on at least a couple of occasions. I saw on video were these so called protesters looked suspiciously like "cops in disguise" - wearing black clothing and face mask etc... The play act at provoking the police so that they can bust up the protest and it makes the protesters, once again, look bad. Its a very common tactic.

Basically its done to make the movement look bad because the media is always around. Also, these people torch police cars which burn but don't explode, meaning that the gas tank is empty... Very suspicious...

There have already been American conservative "activists" who have admitted to trying to turn the protests violent.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

I see. The elite get to do whatever they want, but when the non-elite try to assert their rights, POLEECE TIME.

Dude, it's useless arguing with him. He's a really clever satire of neoconservatism. Or someone paid by China to make the American Right look bad.

One of those.

Or just a troll.

[New Conglomerate]

Dude, it's useless arguing with him. He's a really clever satire of neoconservatism. Or someone paid by China to make the American Right look bad.

One of those.

Or just a troll.

He's too ideologically coherent (by totalitarian standards) for it to be likely.

[Zaras]

I see. The elite get to do whatever they want, but when the non-elite try to assert their rights, POLEECE TIME.

Dude, it's useless arguing with him. He's a really clever satire of neoconservatism. Or someone paid by China to make the American Right look bad.

One of those.

I'd say more self-parody.

[Sskiss]

That's not what I've seen in Montreal and Toronto. During the G8 and G20 Bru ha ha's they (the agent provoceteurs) were caught in the act on at least a couple of occasions. I saw on video were these so called protesters looked suspiciously like "cops in disguise" - wearing black clothing and face mask etc... The play act at provoking the police so that they can bust up the protest and it makes the protesters, once again, look bad. Its a very common tactic.

Basically its done to make the movement look bad because the media is always around. Also, these people torch police cars which burn but don't explode, meaning that the gas tank is empty... Very suspicious...

There have already been American conservative "activists" who have admitted to trying to turn the protests violent.

Not surprised at all. The tactic is a simple one. To discredit any movement or protest, you simple infiltrate it from within. Sit back and watch the fireworks. Police have their excuse to break up to protest and some get sent to jail. The media then broadcasts what they 'see' and to the public at large, the protesters will seem violent etc...

These infiltrators are often, either police in disguise, or paid off local goons and assorted troublemakers. Its all really quite easy and an old tactic.

[Natapoc]

The NY Lawyers Guild received a court order that states that the City of New York may NOT enforce park rules on the protesters, because it hampers their First Amendment Rights to peaceful protest.

"New York, NY: At around 6 AM on November 15, 2011, attorneys associated with the New York City Chapter of the National Lawyers Guild working as the Liberty Park Legal Working Group obtained a restraining order against the City of New York, various City agencies, and Brookfield properties directing that occupiers be allowed back on the premises with their belongings."

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The cities are acting illegally. Any law prohibiting the right of the people to peacefully assemble, to engage in political speech, especially for the purpouses of petitioning the government for a redress of greivences is an illegal law.

Although I have no faith in the current ultra conservative supreme court to make such a judgement. Our current supreme court leans more fascist then libertarian.

Again the people are peacefully assembling and thus are protected.
The people are engaging in protected political speech.

Anyone who tries to deny them of these constitutional rights is committing a crime.

[Occupied Deutschland]

That's not what I've seen in Montreal and Toronto. During the G8 and G20 Bru ha ha's they (the agent provoceteurs) were caught in the act on at least a couple of occasions. I saw on video were these so called protesters looked suspiciously like "cops in disguise" - wearing black clothing and face mask etc... The play act at provoking the police so that they can bust up the protest and it makes the protesters, once again, look bad. Its a very common tactic.

Basically its done to make the movement look bad because the media is always around. Also, these people torch police cars which burn but don't explode, meaning that the gas tank is empty... Very suspicious...

There have already been American conservative "activists" who have admitted to trying to turn the protests violent.

Like...

I want to preface this next comment by saying that, from what I've seen, a large majority of the OWS movement is peaceful (Oakland so far is the only (reported) instance of violence/rioting, out of HOW many protests around the country?).
But there are, inevitably, some wackos mixed in there who want to throw molotov cocktails at police buildings and other such stuff.

Edit: After brief thought, I realized at more than one time I have wanted to throw molotov cocktails into police building, so let me say there are wackos who want to incite a riot for the lulz of it and so they can loot & such.

[New Conglomerate]

Like... ?

Wouldn't have said it if I couldn't back it up.

[Andaluciae]

By and large, the charge of "Agents provocateurs" seems like nothing more than displacement, identity defense, and scapegoating. To somehow disbelieve that there might be people aligned with a movement, who are perfectly capable of doing bad things just seems silly.

That's not what I've seen in Montreal and Toronto. During the G8 and G20 Bru ha ha's they (the agent provoceteurs) were caught in the act on at least a couple of occasions. I saw on video were these so called protesters looked suspiciously like "cops in disguise" - wearing black clothing and face mask etc... The play act at provoking the police so that they can bust up the protest and it makes the protesters, once again, look bad. Its a very common tactic.

Basically its done to make the movement look bad because the media is always around. Also, these people torch police cars which burn but don't explode, meaning that the gas tank is empty... Very suspicious...

That's a very convincing argument. They looked like "cops in disguise"? What on Earth does that even mean? That's ridiculous. Sounds more like the same type of black bloc tactics that have been used repeatedly by radical anti-globalization protesters trying to elicit a response from the police. Just like what happened in Seattle, is happening in Athens, and was attempted at Cannes. It sounds like it down to a T.

[New Conglomerate]

That's not what I've seen in Montreal and Toronto. During the G8 and G20 Bru ha ha's they (the agent provoceteurs) were caught in the act on at least a couple of occasions. I saw on video were these so called protesters looked suspiciously like "cops in disguise" - wearing black clothing and face mask etc... The play act at provoking the police so that they can bust up the protest and it makes the protesters, once again, look bad. Its a very common tactic.

Basically its done to make the movement look bad because the media is always around. Also, these people torch police cars which burn but don't explode, meaning that the gas tank is empty... Very suspicious...

That's a very convincing argument. They looked like "cops in disguise"? What on Earth does that even mean? That's ridiculous. Sounds more like the same type of black bloc tactics that have been used repeatedly by radical anti-globalization protesters trying to elicit a response from the police. Just like what happened in Seattle, is happening in Athens, and was attempted at Cannes. It sounds like it down to a T.

It might not be cops.

Wouldn't have said it if I couldn't back it up.

That being said, the cops are definitely sending vagrants to the camps in an effort to make it look like there's a problem.

[Andaluciae]

Like... ?

Wouldn't have said it if I couldn't back it up.

One guy who bragged about how he was the only one willing to actually try to get into the museum. After all, it wasn't until another protester jacked a guard up against a wall that the pepper spray was used.

[New Conglomerate]

One guy who bragged about how he was the only one willing to actually try to get into the museum. After all, it wasn't until another protester jacked a guard up against a wall that the pepper spray was used.

At this point in the protests, "shoved up against the wall" was code for "bumped".

[Occupied Deutschland]

That's a very convincing argument. They looked like "cops in disguise"? What on Earth does that even mean? That's ridiculous. Sounds more like the same type of black bloc tactics that have been used repeatedly by radical anti-globalization protesters trying to elicit a response from the police. Just like what happened in Seattle, is happening in Athens, and was attempted at Cannes. It sounds like it down to a T.

It might not be cops.

Wouldn't have said it if I couldn't back it up.

That being said, the cops are definitely sending vagrants to the camps in an effort to make it look like there's a problem.

Eh, more likely the conditions exist which draws the vagrants and the cops do nothing to stop it. (Because, realistically what CAN they do? Cop: "Sir, you've been sleeping in this park in raggedy clothes and making a mess of things, we're going to haul you in for vagrancy." Person cop is addressing: "I'm with the Occupy movement! You're trying to stifle my free speech!" Cop: Fuck...)
Point being, the cops don't NEED to "send" vagrants to the camp. It is a natural gathering point for them.

[Andaluciae]

That's a very convincing argument. They looked like "cops in disguise"? What on Earth does that even mean? That's ridiculous. Sounds more like the same type of black bloc tactics that have been used repeatedly by radical anti-globalization protesters trying to elicit a response from the police. Just like what happened in Seattle, is happening in Athens, and was attempted at Cannes. It sounds like it down to a T.

It might not be cops.

Wouldn't have said it if I couldn't back it up.

That being said, the cops are definitely sending vagrants to the camps in an effort to make it look like there's a problem.

The Zucotti Park kitchen staff certainly went on strike because of freeloaders a couple of weeks ago. Homeless and drug addicts who came of their own volition for the good food and free weed.