Anonymous to Occupy Wall Street and Create Megathread

[Zaras]

Explain the large taxation rates and general prosperity of 1945-1973 in the USA and Western Europe then.

In the US it is simple we were the only functional large economy after WWII in the 1950's, In the 1960's we established the Breton Woods Trading/Currency regime.
This times much more closely with said decline, as we ended Breton woods in early 70's, we did not significantly cut taxes until the early to mid 1980's. Your proposed reasoning require ignoring an entire decade of Data.

Yeah, but my point is that whining about excessive tax rates on the rich is stupid since it's been proven before that high marginal tax rates and general prosperity + economic growth can coexist just fine.

[Zaras]

The liberal media is once again trying to lie to the American people.

What liberal media?

[Hippostania]

The liberal media is once again trying to lie to the American people.

What liberal media?

Well, all newspapers and TV channels that claim that the OWS has ''widespread support'' when it reality it is even more unpopular than the Tea Party.

[Yavin 1221]

Sure, I support. But, I do have more important things to worry about... Like, my personal life and how my close friends and family are doing.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

The liberal media is once again trying to lie to the American people.

What liberal media?

It's best to just ignore the troll.

In more related news, it's interesting that protesters apparently weren't allowed back into the park even though they had a court order allowing them to be there.

There's also widely conflicting reports about the use of tear gas, batons, etc. One of the more concrete points seems to be that protesters were removed from the park without being allowed to gather their belongings. There are several reports of press members being harassed. And it seems very clear from the livestream last night that "protestors will be allowed to pick up their belongings at a sanitation department depot" was interpreted by the people on the ground as "they can sort through the city dump if they want to."

[Neutraligon]

What liberal media?

Well, all newspapers and TV channels that claim that the OWS has ''widespread support'' when it reality it is even more unpopular than the Tea Party.

Actually there are a variety of polls and they are very mixed. The majority seem to be saying they don't have an opinion, though I don't disagree that certain media has liberal leaning tendencies. But then certain media has conservative leaning tendencies as well, if you don't try reading both sides, its rather interesting.

[Malgrave]

You are partially correct. Progressive taxation is immoral, and for this reason you could consider European countries as dictatorships. For example, Finland is a welfare state where there is progressive taxation and the taxes are generally very high. No wonder that we have the highest suicide rates in the world!

I don't find how a progressive tax system is immoral, giving the poorest in society a stepping stone to actually achieve something in life is not the sign of stepping towards a dictatorship. The high suicide rates in Finland are also a direct correlation to the lack of sun during the winter it's called seasonal depression and can be cured by standing in front of a special UV light every morning.

[Yootwopia]

Explain the large taxation rates and general prosperity of 1945-1973 in the USA and Western Europe then.

In the US it is simple we were the only functional large economy after WWII in the 1950's, In the 1960's we established the Breton Woods Trading/Currency regime.

No this is completely wrong, sorry. Bretton Woods was basically functional before the end of the Second World War. By the end of the sixties, it was already breaking down, because of the expenses incurred in decolonisation in Europe, and the absolutely artificial value ascribed to the dollar after a decade of gigantic overspend.

Most of the European economies were right back on their feet by the 1950s, especially in France and West Germany, and the British were out of the worst of it by the late fifties. In addition to this, the USSR was outperforming its prewar economy by the time of the fifth five-year plan (actually ending official food rationing before the UK).



More relevant to the overall topic, it's basically 100% disappointing to watch the US government act like fucking East Germany or something over this.

[Andaluciae]

I don't find how a progressive tax system is immoral, giving the poorest in society a stepping stone to actually achieve something in life is not the sign of stepping towards a dictatorship. The high suicide rates in Finland are also a direct correlation to the lack of sun during the winter it's called seasonal depression and can be cured by standing in front of a special UV light every morning.

Here's how I look at progressive taxes:

When economic hard times hit, and effective incomes fall, you have a pretty automatic system to provide instant tax cuts. I find it to be a remarkably elegant solution for instant economic stimulus.

[Hippostania]

What liberal media?

It's best to just ignore the troll.

In more related news, it's interesting that protesters apparently weren't allowed back into the park even though they had a court order allowing them to be there.

There's also widely conflicting reports about the use of tear gas, batons, etc. One of the more concrete points seems to be that protesters were removed from the park without being allowed to gather their belongings. There are several reports of press members being harassed. And it seems very clear from the livestream last night that "protestors will be allowed to pick up their belongings at a sanitation department depot" was interpreted by the people on the ground as "they can sort through the city dump if they want to."

Not everyone in NSG is a left-wing liberal, and different opinions =/= trolling

[Malgrave]

You mean the bankers?

No, I mean the lazy bastards living on welfare. Bankers are respectable, hard working men and women who have worked hard to achieve their current position. I respect them greatly, unlike these whiny OWS protestors.

So, your entire stance towards poor/disadvantaged people is basically "Fuck you worthless bastards, you deserve it! Why haven't you serfs got a job already?"

My stance on them is neutral. However, the moment they start lobbying the government to steal money from the rich my opinion on them turns negative. Which has already happened.

Not everyone on welfare is a lazy bastard, my sister was on welfare for two years and applied for well over 1,000 jobs and even took temporary job in the Royal Mail before finally managing to find a job, You know the problem with the world economy at this moment of time? Extremely high unemployment?

Those working in the financial industry are not hard working men and women, they took money from high street operations to gamble on high risk investment operations. How is that respectful? Screwing over the working man while wrecking the economy is not respectful.

[Zaras]

Those working in the financial industry are not hard working men and women, they took money from high street operations to gamble on high risk investment operations. How is that respectful? Screwing over the working man while wrecking the economy is not respectful.

Seconded. Financial people aren't performing actual work for an income, they're just dicking with spreadsheets and tallies. At best they shift money around, but they produce nothing.

[Malgrave]

What liberal media?

Well, all newspapers and TV channels that claim that the OWS has ''widespread support'' when it reality it is even more unpopular than the Tea Party.

Although people don't agree with the entire movement most American's support the repeal of the Bush era tax cuts. More regulation to help protect high street operations from risky investment operations would also be good.

[Hippostania]

Those working in the financial industry are not hard working men and women, they took money from high street operations to gamble on high risk investment operations. How is that respectful? Screwing over the working man while wrecking the economy is not respectful.

Seconded. Financial people aren't performing actual work for an income, they're just dicking with spreadsheets and tallies. At best they shift money around, but they produce nothing.

So what? They're still getting paid which mean that their work is needed and appreciated. And I personally appreciate eveyr banker and stockbroker more than some average worker, simply because of all the socialist ''BANKERZ ARE CRIMINALZ''-bullshit they have to go through every day.

[Hippostania]

More regulation

NO NO NO NO NO!
Why in the hell do the Democrats and leftists always want more regulations? More regulations, more laws, more limitations! Why would anyone want more regulations? We need less regulations, not more.

[Neutraligon]

Seconded. Financial people aren't performing actual work for an income, they're just dicking with spreadsheets and tallies. At best they shift money around, but they produce nothing.

So what? They're still getting paid which mean that their work is needed and appreciated. And I personally appreciate eveyr banker and stockbroker more than some average worker, simply because of all the socialist ''BANKERZ ARE CRIMINALZ''-bullshit they have to go through every day.

many people who are on welfare also work and are paid...

[Greed and Death]

Those working in the financial industry are not hard working men and women, they took money from high street operations to gamble on high risk investment operations. How is that respectful? Screwing over the working man while wrecking the economy is not respectful.

Seconded. Financial people aren't performing actual work for an income, they're just dicking with spreadsheets and tallies. At best they shift money around, but they produce nothing.

They take money from those with capital to invest and give it to those who have a use for capital.

[Novograd IV]

More regulation

NO NO NO NO NO!
Why in the hell do the Democrats and leftists always want more regulations? More regulations, more laws, more limitations! Why would anyone want more regulations? We need less regulations, not more.

Proof?

[Malgrave]

More regulation

NO NO NO NO NO!
Why in the hell do the Democrats and leftists always want more regulations? More regulations, more laws, more limitations! Why would anyone want more regulations? We need less regulations, not more.

Do you think that financial institutions should be allowed to take money from high street operations and use them to gamble more money on high risk international investment? Regulation would prevent this and would mean that investment corporations have to invest their own money and when they screw up they pay for their own mistakes not the middle class, small businesses and the high street economy.

Regulations protect the economy, the consumer and the corporations.

[Hippostania]

NO NO NO NO NO!
Why in the hell do the Democrats and leftists always want more regulations? More regulations, more laws, more limitations! Why would anyone want more regulations? We need less regulations, not more.

Proof?

Why would you want less freedom instead of more?

[Hippostania]

NO NO NO NO NO!
Why in the hell do the Democrats and leftists always want more regulations? More regulations, more laws, more limitations! Why would anyone want more regulations? We need less regulations, not more.

Do you think that financial institutions should be allowed to take money from high street operations and use them to gamble more money on high risk international investment? Regulation would prevent this and would mean that investment corporations have to invest their own money and when they screw up they pay for their own mistakes not the middle class, small businesses and the high street economy.

Regulations protect the economy, the consumer and the corporations.

Because financial institutions have a right to do whatever the hell they want, and no government may limit or restrict their operation

[Malgrave]

Seconded. Financial people aren't performing actual work for an income, they're just dicking with spreadsheets and tallies. At best they shift money around, but they produce nothing.

So what? They're still getting paid which mean that their work is needed and appreciated. And I personally appreciate eveyr banker and stockbroker more than some average worker, simply because of all the socialist ''BANKERZ ARE CRIMINALZ''-bullshit they have to go through every day.

You value a stockbroker more then a small business owner or a factory worker? The middle class are more important to the economy then the stockbroker and people are not calling all bankers criminals, people are calling for bankers to pay for their own gambling operations and for them to pay for their own mistakes and not be bailed out by the government.

[Novograd IV]

Do you think that financial institutions should be allowed to take money from high street operations and use them to gamble more money on high risk international investment? Regulation would prevent this and would mean that investment corporations have to invest their own money and when they screw up they pay for their own mistakes not the middle class, small businesses and the high street economy.

Regulations protect the economy, the consumer and the corporations.

Because financial institutions have a right to do whatever the hell they want, and no government may limit or restrict their operation

Right, so you're in support of the businesses right to discriminate and engage in any activity it wishes to?

[Malgrave]

Do you think that financial institutions should be allowed to take money from high street operations and use them to gamble more money on high risk international investment? Regulation would prevent this and would mean that investment corporations have to invest their own money and when they screw up they pay for their own mistakes not the middle class, small businesses and the high street economy.

Regulations protect the economy, the consumer and the corporations.

Because financial institutions have a right to do whatever the hell they want, and no government may limit or restrict their operation

You've not actually answered my question. You believe that corporations have the right to use money that is not theirs to gamble on the international investment markets? Financial regulation provides the environment for real economic growth not a series of bubbles. Why do you think the Canadian financial system held together so well? Proper financial regulation was the cause.

[Sskiss]

I generally support the movement. Just hope cooler heads prevail. Although hopefully they are weary of "agent provoceteurs".