Turkey Preparing for War with Israel

[Dacius]

Um... the fact that it's a totally different country in a totally different time?

Different does not mean they are any more capable...they could eb worse.
The point is to point out reasons as to why they would eb better.

I wasn't giving my opinion on who I think would win. I'm only saying that it's silly for someone to bring up irrelevant wars as arguments for why Israel would win.

[Pridwen]

First off, the title is trollish. Second, Israel has nothing. 3 Frigates to Turkey's 19, 0 mining vessels to Turkey's 20, etc. etc. Turkey also has 1.2 million active troops to Israel's 700,000 and millions more in reserves, as well as 32 million more people fit for service. In a conventional war, Turkey would crush Israel.

What's actually happening, of course, is Turkey demonstrating they won't let Israel murder their citizens at will the way America, France and the UK have.

and a combined population of 168 million arabs couldn't defeat an even smaller Israel in the 60's and 70's.

That population, to be fair, was poorly organized, poorly armed, and poorly trained, and America intervened with supplies and training. Turkey is a NATO country.

[Fellrike]

Neither side is going to win, because this war isn't going to happen. Both Israel and Turkey are too reliant on American goodwill to let things go that far. Erdogan doesn't want to go to war with Israel - he has to talk tough to keep the Islamist IHH on board, but he has no intention of taking his country to war against Israel, which shares no common border with Turkey and poses no threat to its national security. And the Turkish generals, most of whom are stll secularists who care little for the IHH, are going to be even less eager for war than he is.
My guess is, there'll be a bargain between the two countries, a quid pro quo: Turkey stops trying to help the Palestinians, and in return, Israel stops supporting the PKK.

[Lessnt]

If america becomes less involved in foreign affairs.....then can they finally go to war?

[Galla-]

If america becomes less involved in foreign affairs.....then can they finally go to war?

wat

this makes ludicrous amounts of nonsense.

[Lessnt]

If america becomes less involved in foreign affairs.....then can they finally go to war?

wat

this makes ludicrous amounts of nonsense.

response to felrike.

[Galla-]

wat

this makes ludicrous amounts of nonsense.

response to felrike.

oic now it makes sense

[Caninope]

Haha, another victory goes to Israel.

First off, the title is trollish. Second, Israel has nothing. 3 Frigates to Turkey's 19, 0 mining vessels to Turkey's 20, etc. etc. Turkey also has 1.2 million active troops to Israel's 700,000 and millions more in reserves, as well as 32 million more people fit for service. In a conventional war, Turkey would crush Israel.

What's actually happening, of course, is Turkey demonstrating they won't let Israel murder their citizens at will the way America, France and the UK have.

Wrong. Turkey has no way to project the power it needs, and Israel can simply thwart any attempts to project power through air supremacy.

[Fellrike]

If america becomes less involved in foreign affairs.....then can they finally go to war?

Good question! As you know my people swing back and forth like a pendulum in our sentiments, one decade favoring isolation, and the next, a more assertive and robust foreign policy. So under the right conditions it's not impossible to imagine an America led by a government unwilling to send the US Sixth Fleet to intervene in such a situation. But even if this was the case we could still exert considerable diplomatic pressure on the two sides to keep them apart and promote a negotiated solution.
Israel has got to get some kind of assurance that arms aren't going to be smuggled into Gaza if it lifts the blockade. This is nonnegotiable. Even if the US refused to support Israel militarily, which is possible though unlikley, Israel has a nuclear deterrent which makes its threats credible.
The bottom line is, cost tolerance. How much cost are you willing to tolerate?
Erdogan can back down, knowing he'll be criticized for abandoning the IHH activists and the Palestinians, but at least Turkey itself won't be endangered. Israel, however, has less latitude, in making concessions, because the seaways in dispute are its own territorial waters, and also, because unlike Turkey, its territory really is under threat of bombardment.
This being the case, I think a naval clash between Israel and Turkey is unlikely. In the end, Erdogan will seek some other solution. The prestige he's gained as the champion of the Palestinians of Gaza isn't worth the risk of war; he isn't gaining enough to make it worthwhile. His own admirals/generals will make him back down, if nothing else. The AKP has begun to purge the armed forces of secularist officers, but this process hasn't been completed and the government can't yet feel assured that the military will follow orders without question, especially when Turkey itself hasn't been attacked.
I didn't mean to run on and on. Maybe I could have said it all in fewer words?

[AiliailiA]

Israel, however, has less latitude, in making concessions, because the seaways in dispute are its own territorial waters, and also, because unlike Turkey, its territory really is under threat of bombardment.

Um, the PKK? More Turkish civilians have been killed in that fighting, than Israelis have in theirs ... on pretty much whatever timescale you want to pick. Last five years, last ten, last twenty. And far more Turkish military though it seems they are getting similar ratios to the Isreali military has gotten (about 6 to 1).

I think you had a point when you mentioned the small size of Israel. The better rockets that Israel is so concerned about would bring the war deep into Israel ... whereas the fighting in Turkey is concentrated away for the populated north.

I hear that a million people are refugees within Turkey from that fighting. It should not be dismissed as insignificant on the pedantic grounds that it is not "bombardment" from without.

[Kalaspia-Shimarata]

How is it overdone? My belife is that WWIII will happen this decade. I don't want it to, but it will

I've seen your ideas on how, too. Even if, somehow, a global war broke out, Greece is not getting back Western Anatolia. Sorry.

http://doomsday-prophecies.blogspot.com ... d-war.html
And yes, I DO belive this

[AiliailiA]

First off, the title is trollish. Second, Israel has nothing. 3 Frigates to Turkey's 19, 0 mining vessels to Turkey's 20, etc. etc. Turkey also has 1.2 million active troops to Israel's 700,000 and millions more in reserves, as well as 32 million more people fit for service. In a conventional war, Turkey would crush Israel.

What's actually happening, of course, is Turkey demonstrating they won't let Israel murder their citizens at will the way America, France and the UK have.

Wrong. Turkey has no way to project the power it needs, and Israel can simply thwart any attempts to project power through air supremacy.

Ah, the American Mantra of power projection.

Both countries can harm each other a lot without "power projection". By arming and funding the terrorist groups that are giving each country trouble already.

I really hope they don't. Terrorism is doing nothing good for the causes of Palestinians or Kurds.

[AiliailiA]

I've seen your ideas on how, too. Even if, somehow, a global war broke out, Greece is not getting back Western Anatolia. Sorry.

http://doomsday-prophecies.blogspot.com ... d-war.html
And yes, I DO belive this

Thanks for that.

I didn't quite laugh out loud but I grinned a few times.

- Jewish masons who are rulers over USA and European Union will force Turkish people into the war against Greece.

...
Profit!

- The war will be horrible. Burning people will fall from the sky.

And flying pigs, on full afterburner.

[Orlkjestad]

Well the US would be stuck in a quandry. NATO vs. Israel. If Israel attacked, legally the US would have to fight Israel because Turkey is NATO.

Turkey attacks Israel? US would take Israel's side. Or not. Obama's stance on Israel make the Israelis skeptical if he would bring the US to their side during another Arab invasion. The US would have to choose which nation to lose if both fight each other.

If Turkey attacks Israel, then the US can stay neutral, since it's an offensive action. Right? /notfamiliarwithnatocharter

EDIT: Wait. How is the blockade of Gaza justified? It has tons of civilians, and just because there are some rotten apples doesn't necessarily mean the whole barrel is spoiled.

[Kalaspia-Shimarata]

- The war will be horrible. Burning people will fall from the sky.

And flying pigs, on full afterburner.

[Orlkjestad]

- The war will be horrible. Burning people will fall from the sky.

And flying pigs, on full afterburner.

And George Lopez will come out with a good comedy show.

[Lessnt]

Well the US would be stuck in a quandry. NATO vs. Israel. If Israel attacked, legally the US would have to fight Israel because Turkey is NATO.

Turkey attacks Israel? US would take Israel's side. Or not. Obama's stance on Israel make the Israelis skeptical if he would bring the US to their side during another Arab invasion. The US would have to choose which nation to lose if both fight each other.

If Turkey attacks Israel, then the US can stay neutral, since it's an offensive action. Right? /notfamiliarwithnatocharter

EDIT: Wait. How is the blockade of Gaza justified? It has tons of civilians, and just because there are some rotten apples doesn't necessarily mean the whole barrel is spoiled.

Israel takes its security very seriously.

[Orlkjestad]

If Turkey attacks Israel, then the US can stay neutral, since it's an offensive action. Right? /notfamiliarwithnatocharter

EDIT: Wait. How is the blockade of Gaza justified? It has tons of civilians, and just because there are some rotten apples doesn't necessarily mean the whole barrel is spoiled.

Israel takes its security very seriously.

Oh really, now?

[Lessnt]

Israel takes its security very seriously.

Oh really, now?

More than the US....

[Orlkjestad]

Oh really, now?

More than the US....

In America, when a terrorist is in an airport, they shut it down.
In Israel, when a terrorist is in an airport, they fire rockets at it.

[Forster Keys]

I've seen your ideas on how, too. Even if, somehow, a global war broke out, Greece is not getting back Western Anatolia. Sorry.

http://doomsday-prophecies.blogspot.com ... d-war.html
And yes, I DO belive this

Oh my. The flaws are everywhere. Where does one start? Its seems like nothing more than an extremely loose hypothesis for Byzantine revanchists.

[Orlkjestad]

http://doomsday-prophecies.blogspot.com ... d-war.html
And yes, I DO belive this

Oh my. The flaws are everywhere. Where does one start? Its seems like nothing more than an extremely loose hypothesis for Byzantine revanchists.

You know when I stopped taking it seriously? When I saw blogspot in the URL. And doomsday. And prophecies.

[Lessnt]

More than the US....

In America, when a terrorist is in an airport, they shut it down.
In Israel, when a terrorist is in an airport, they fire rockets at it.

Getting rid of the airport altogether is much better at making sure it is not attacked the same way again.

[Orlkjestad]

In America, when a terrorist is in an airport, they shut it down.
In Israel, when a terrorist is in an airport, they fire rockets at it.

Getting rid of the airport altogether is much better at making sure it is not attacked the same way again.

I can't argue with that logic.

[Coltarin]

they wont go to war god damned sensationalist reporting