Turkey Preparing for War with Israel

[Nazi Flower Power]

"White people" aren't a nationality, and South America already has independence from Spain.

Real owners of South America are clear. They deserve to stay there as much as Turks deserve to keep Southeastern lands.

The real owners of South America aren't of Spanish nationality.

Nobody is debating where people of Turkish descent are allowed to live. The debate is about the land the nation of Turkey is allowed to control. They are different issues.

[Casta Nal]

Unless it's getting overrun by an enemy force bent on eradicating every last Israeli, the first time Israel uses nukes will also be the last time Israel uses nukes.

Why? Because at that point they would find themselves be under a total financial and economic embargo, including food and medicine. In the face of such an embargo, Israel could not possibly survive.

Thus guaranteeing that Israel will fire off the rest of their nukes turning the Middle East into a Radioactive wasteland.

Guys think small and reasonable.

[Kemaliste]

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/1287 ... aydnlk.jpg

Headline of Aydinlik (Enlightenment) newspaper dated 20 October 1996, while Erdogan was just a mayor and AKP was not founded yet.

'' Abramowitz is preparing Tayyip for prime ministry ''. It follows as '' USA will make Erdogan prime minister, and Gul foreign minister. It was written in Rand Corporation that is connected to CIA. ''

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

I'm sure Turkey's also pissed about how Israel has trained the Kurds in the past.

This won't end well...

And no Turkey wouldn't win

Simply because if worse came to worse Israel would pull out the nukes.

Unless it's getting overrun by an enemy force bent on eradicating every last Israeli, the first time Israel uses nukes will also be the last time Israel uses nukes.

Why? Because at that point they would find themselves be under a total financial and economic embargo, including food and medicine. In the face of such an embargo, Israel could not possibly survive.

Unless they are used in an act of agression I don't think so. It has long been accepted that the use of nuclear weapons can be justified if you suffer a direct foreign invasion and you are losing.

[Nazi Flower Power]

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Say it isn't so!

Here's your communist mop. Time for you to clean up some broken glass.

Not quite what I had in mind when I said we'd mop the floor with the commies...

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

When o.O ?

March 2010.

You're assuming it doesn't escalate into an all out war, that it's just a bit of dick-waving with live ammo. That may be what happens, or they may calm down and decide not to fight at all; but that doesn't change the fact that if they DID have an all out war, it would be devastating. That's why they need to talk it out like civilized people, cut the nationalistic dick-waving, and NOT have a war.

Quite honestly, the only support for there being a war because of this is USOA-'s OP and I sometimes get the feeling he's living in an alternate universe that is strangely connected to ours via NS where all the ludicrous things he claims are going on actually do happen.

Are you suggesting Hitler wasn't Jewish?

I had no idea! I must leave the Nazi Party at once! I would never follow a Leader who wasn't one of God's Chosen!

I've got worse news for you: The NSDAP has been disbanded for over 60 years! The party ended before you left!

To honest you are quite right. I am 100% lying in this thread. Turkey is not sending its navy out in response to Israel refusing to apologize. Turkey has not expelled the Israeli ambassador. Turkey is not a secular republic. And everything between the Turks and Israelis is just fine and even if it wasn't, then well, Israelis totally deserve to be annihilated just for having the gall to defend themselves from terrorism.

Oh and Israel never raided a Turkish ship because Turkey stopped that ship from leaving and arrested the agitators against the peace.



Is one not reminded of the time Thomas Paine spoke the infamous words, "Men say peace peace, when there is no peace."

In the real world the situation between Turkey and Israel is serious. They are entering the fog that, in the past, has led to war being ignited by a simple misunderstanding or even a simple mistake. We had close economic ties to Germany just before World War II. That did not prevent us from going to war against each other.

This will only get better if the UN, USA, Russia, the Arab League, and the EU do a very complicated diplomatic dance that involves trying to walk on rice paper without breaking the paper. Those groups would lose a lot if Turkey and Israel ended up going at it.

While neutral, the USA would not condone a war between the two.

[Alyakia]

"White people" aren't a nationality, and South America already has independence from Spain.

Real owners of South America are clear. They deserve to stay there as much as Turks deserve to keep Southeastern lands.

Stop picking on the U.S.! ):

[Laerod]

To honest you are quite right. I am 100% lying in this thread. Turkey is not sending its navy out in response to Israel refusing to apologize. Turkey has not expelled the Israeli ambassador. Turkey is not a secular republic. And everything between the Turks and Israelis is just fine and even if it wasn't, then well, Israelis totally deserve to be annihilated just for having the gall to defend themselves from terrorism.
Oh and Israel never raided a Turkish ship because Turkey stopped that ship from leaving and arrested the agitators against the peace.

Oh, quit whining when people call you on your bullshit. There's no war brewing, at least not in this reality.

Is one not reminded of the time Thomas Paine spoke the infamous words, "Men say peace peace, when there is no peace."

I'll bet 9 times out of 10 when people say peace there actually is peace.

In the real world the situation between Turkey and Israel is serious. They are entering the fog that, in the past, has led to war being ignited by a simple misunderstanding or even a simple mistake. We had close economic ties to Germany just before World War II. That did not prevent us from going to war against each other.

This is bullshit. Turkey and Israel have been in this fog for years.

This will only get better if the UN, USA, Russia, the Arab League, and the EU do a very complicated diplomatic dance that involves trying to walk on rice paper without breaking the paper. Those groups would lose a lot if Turkey and Israel ended up going at it.

While neutral, the USA would not condone a war between the two.

What war? A war isn't going to solve shit and both sides know that. There's tenser conflicts in this world that haven't erupted into warfare, and there's no indication that this will either.

[Tmutarakhan]

Is one not reminded of the time Thomas Paine spoke the infamous words, "Men say peace peace, when there is no peace."

That was the prophet Jeremiah, actually.

[Garyana]

Like the Hawaiian Army

Hawaii is Luxembourg's secondary naval base.

I thought Luxembourgs secondary naval base was Moldova!!!!!!

[Tresmius]

It would be ideal if war could be avoided. It is against the interest of the masses (regardless of what dogma/ propaganda may have made them think otherwise) and always results in the deaths of civilians.

I hope a peaceful solution will be found to solve the problems in the middle east but because of the causes existing there - human stupidity, Militant Islam, and Zionism, to name a few, I unfortunately can't see that peaceful solution happening any time soon. Wishful thinking, eh.

[Novaya Leviathan]

For Ataturk and Turkey!

Krieg Krieg Krieg Krieg!

But in a less half-assed nationalistic mood, I hope Israel get's it's ass kicked militarily to see what oppression feels like. I will not condone any civilian deaths.

I agree with you.

[Israslovakahzerbajan]

For Ataturk and Turkey!

Krieg Krieg Krieg Krieg!

But in a less half-assed nationalistic mood, I hope Israel get's it's ass kicked militarily to see what oppression feels like. I will not condone any civilian deaths.

This...

[Holy Marsh]

If it was close to Israel, I am not. Anywhere else? No. Have us fight over...South Africa(no idea why, just roll with it)...or some other geographically distant location from Israel and it is different, comically so.

A nation of 7 million defeating a nation of almost 50 times that size.
Totally possible.

It sure is, especially since I am not talking about Israel invading the United States. (And with conscription, Israel will have a force of comparable numbers if not more fighting locally as opposed to long, stretched American supply lines)

If it makes you feel better, I would take Israel over the American military in a war(one very close to Israel, anyway).

Lol o.O Israel will be drowned if all of 70.000.000 nation spit on them.

Because of course all 70 million will be armed. Discussing the actual size and capabilities of two militaries isn't as important as throwing populatioon numbers around! Yay 5-year old child with a stone!

If it makes you feel better, I would take Israel over the American military in a war(one very close to Israel, anyway).

Israel doesn't have the capacity to defeat and occupy territory the way the US does. Arguably, the IDF's main strength is defending Israel. Widespread occupation and power projection are out of its reach, even across the Middle East.

Which is exactly the scenario I am describing, so thank you for your agreement.

There won't be a war. If there was a war, then it is likely instigated by Turkey and NATO wouldn't have to intervene. Even if Israel attacked Turkey, people act like this is NationStates and western countries would go to war because they are forced to due to a document. The modern world does not work like that. Turkey will not get NATO support and would end up militarily getting hammered into dust. No one wants that and everyone knows it.

Doesn't work like that ... anymore you mean. Or, wait... Maybe a tiny bit, if we ask nicely.

In reality though, you're probably right. It will look bad though, if the Israeli's attack a Turkish vessel, and then NATO does nothing.

That would be why I said, "The modern world does not work like that.". Unless you consider WWI modern...

And bolded mein point. Would it make them look bad and cause serious issues? Yes. But anyone who thinks NATO will intervene militarily is insanely naive.

[Juristonia]

I like how you're completely ignoring the repeatedly pointed out fact that the Turkish army is much, much bigger and has much, much more equipment than Israel.

[Holy Marsh]

I like how you're completely ignoring the repeatedly pointed out fact that the Turkish army is much, much bigger and has much, much more equipment than Israel.

1.2 million versus 3/4 of a million is an advantage, but it isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

To honest you are quite right. I am 100% lying in this thread. Turkey is not sending its navy out in response to Israel refusing to apologize. Turkey has not expelled the Israeli ambassador. Turkey is not a secular republic. And everything between the Turks and Israelis is just fine and even if it wasn't, then well, Israelis totally deserve to be annihilated just for having the gall to defend themselves from terrorism.
Oh and Israel never raided a Turkish ship because Turkey stopped that ship from leaving and arrested the agitators against the peace.

Oh, quit whining when people call you on your bullshit. There's no war brewing, at least not in this reality.

Is one not reminded of the time Thomas Paine spoke the infamous words, "Men say peace peace, when there is no peace."

I'll bet 9 times out of 10 when people say peace there actually is peace.

In the real world the situation between Turkey and Israel is serious. They are entering the fog that, in the past, has led to war being ignited by a simple misunderstanding or even a simple mistake. We had close economic ties to Germany just before World War II. That did not prevent us from going to war against each other.

This is bullshit. Turkey and Israel have been in this fog for years.

This will only get better if the UN, USA, Russia, the Arab League, and the EU do a very complicated diplomatic dance that involves trying to walk on rice paper without breaking the paper. Those groups would lose a lot if Turkey and Israel ended up going at it.

While neutral, the USA would not condone a war between the two.

What war? A war isn't going to solve shit and both sides know that. There's tenser conflicts in this world that haven't erupted into warfare, and there's no indication that this will either.

Whose whining? I find this entertaining. Someone who claims that Turkey and Israel were "always in the fog" and who claims there are no wars brewing.
What world do you live on that for 90% of human history whenever someone said peace there was really peace? We don't have to go back to Jeremiah or Thomas Paine. We can look at the Camp David Accords when every said Peace Peace. Even then tensions were high and just a couple years later, it all fell apart because the Palestinians would not reign in the terrorists operating with total impunity from Palestinian administered territories and then the Israelis, as usual, responded with overwhelming, disproportionate force.

This is not Paris having a tiff with Berlin. This more like the dispute between China and the USA when China's aircraft crashed into a US military plane in international airspace forcing it to land on Hainan. After which the Chinese demanded the US apologize and held the US crew hostage until they did so. The two countries very much went to the brink of war over that. The only reason it didn't is that both backed down. It turned out the Chinese pilot who shot at the Americans had gone rogue. But I guess in your world that never happened. In fact it happened months before 9/11. We almost went to war against China instead of Afghanistan.
Now a very similar thing is happening between Israel and Turkey. It has to be dealt with realistically. Not by pretending there are no problems and no tensions there because unlike the US-China incident, both Israel and Turkey are more nationalistic. yes the Chinese were and are nationalistic but you at least had one party that was placed rationalism ahead of nationalism. But when you have two nationalistic governments and peoples, the leaders of both have to tread a very thin line.

For reference I note:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Ameri ... th.2C_2001

In April 2001, a PRC J-8 fighter jet collided with a US EP-3 reconnaissance aircraft flying south of the PRC in what became known as the Hainan Island incident. The EP-3 was able to make an emergency landing on PRC's Hainan Island despite extensive damage; the PRC aircraft crashed with the loss of its pilot, Wang Wei. It was widely believed that the EP-3 recon aircraft was conducting a spying mission on the Chinese Armed Forces before the collision. Following extensive negotiations resulting in the "letter of the two sorries," the crew of the EP-3 was released from imprisonment and allowed to leave the PRC 11 days later. The US aircraft was not permitted to depart Chinese soil for another three months, after which the relationship between the US and the PRC gradually improved once more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident

On April 1, 2001, a mid-air collision between a United States Navy EP-3E ARIES II signals intelligence aircraft and a People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) J-8II interceptor fighter jet resulted in an international dispute between the United States and the People's Republic of China (PRC) called the Hainan Island incident.
he 24 crew members were detained and interrogated by the Chinese authorities until a statement was delivered by United States government regarding the incident. The exact phrasing of this document was intentionally ambiguous and allowed both countries to save face while simultaneously defusing a potentially volatile situation between militarily strong regional states
The "Letter of the two sorries"[27] was the letter delivered by the United States Ambassador Joseph Prueher to Foreign Minister Tang Jiaxuan of the People's Republic of China to defuse the incident.
While China had originally asked for an apology, the US explained, "We did not do anything wrong, and therefore it was not possible to apologize."[29]

EDIT To include a map of the area showing the incident happened in what is clearly international airspace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hainanincidentmap.png

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

Is one not reminded of the time Thomas Paine spoke the infamous words, "Men say peace peace, when there is no peace."

That was the prophet Jeremiah, actually.

Paine said it also, during one of the debates about whether the US should secede from Britain.
Also Jesus said it as well.

[Juristonia]

I like how you're completely ignoring the repeatedly pointed out fact that the Turkish army is much, much bigger and has much, much more equipment than Israel.

1.2 million versus 3/4 of a million is an advantage, but it isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

Yeah, okay.

Turkey - Israel

(Image)

[Vitaphone Racing]

All the more reason to give some entertainment to the rest of the world. See how Israel deals with a full blown military instead of rock throwing palestinians, damn hypocrites. Just to see how badly the Israeli military gets raped would be worth it.

Bullshit. Israel has the second-best trained forces in the world, bested by only the Russian Spetsnaz. They have one of the best Air Forces in the world.

Plus, with conscription, if you include the reserves, they've got an army of about 3 million.

Bitch please, Spetsnaz are a joke.

---

A solution for this problem would be for Turkey to get the fuck out of Gaza and let Egypt deal with it like they have been since the late 90's. Pissing off Israel by running their blockade, which has been implaced for the security of Israel, isn't a great idea particularly when Egypt already ensures that resources and supplies flows through with co-operation from Israel.

Turkey overestimates it's place in the world, nobody gives a shit if Ankara wants to chuck a fit. Israel would kick it's ass anyway.

[Vitaphone Racing]

I like how you're completely ignoring the repeatedly pointed out fact that the Turkish army is much, much bigger and has much, much more equipment than Israel.

Two things

1. Israel has state-of-the-art equipment. Turkey is running Cold war era shit.
2. Israel has combat experience, the singular most important factor in deciding a war. 100 veterans will beat 1000 conscripts every time.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

I like how you're completely ignoring the repeatedly pointed out fact that the Turkish army is much, much bigger and has much, much more equipment than Israel.

Two things

1. Israel has state-of-the-art equipment. Turkey is running Cold war era shit.
2. Israel has combat experience, the singular most important factor in deciding a war. 100 veterans will beat 1000 conscripts every time.

1. Turkey has been purchasing the same type of stuff from the US that Israel has been buying. Though I don't know about the past two years.
2. Both countries engage in conscripting. Both have veterans from recent active combat operations. The Israelis against the Palestinians and the Turks against the Kurds.

[Vitaphone Racing]

Two things

1. Israel has state-of-the-art equipment. Turkey is running Cold war era shit.
2. Israel has combat experience, the singular most important factor in deciding a war. 100 veterans will beat 1000 conscripts every time.

1. Turkey has been purchasing the same type of stuff from the US that Israel has been buying. Though I don't know about the past two years.
2. Both countries engage in conscripting. Both have veterans from recent active combat operations. The Israelis against the Palestinians and the Turks against the Kurds.

Turkish equipment, while American, isn't of the same ilk as what Israel posseses. For example, Turkey still uses F-4 Phantoms, Israel uses F-15's. This trend is evident through every branch of their armed forces.

Think big picture. Turkey hasn't been involved in a full scale war since the days of the Ottoman empire. Israel has much, much more combat experience against a similarly equipped and similarly numbered foe.

[Lessnt]

Two things

1. Israel has state-of-the-art equipment. Turkey is running Cold war era shit.
2. Israel has combat experience, the singular most important factor in deciding a war. 100 veterans will beat 1000 conscripts every time.

1. Turkey has been purchasing the same type of stuff from the US that Israel has been buying. Though I don't know about the past two years.
2. Both countries engage in conscripting. Both have veterans from recent active combat operations. The Israelis against the Palestinians and the Turks against the Kurds.

No one is gonna be destroying anyone or win, diplomacy will occur again....

[New Embossia]

oh gawd. More muslims vs. jews shit again.