Turkey Preparing for War with Israel

[New England and The Maritimes]

On the contrary, I doubt all that much devastation would happen- to civilians, at least, aside from economic effects. Assuming, since they've been upping the ante and due to NATO concerns, that Turkey attacks Israel, and that they go on the offensive first. The main event would be a battle for air superiority in the Eastern Med and over Israel, and I can see Israel at least keeping control of its air and that of the sea near to it, and Turkey keeping control of its portion.

Thus Turkey wouldn't be able to threaten Israel navally, nor would Israel be able to threaten Turkey. Perhaps there would be the occasional bombing of a coastal city, but I think stalemate is the most likely result.

You're assuming it doesn't escalate into an all out war, that it's just a bit of dick-waving with live ammo. That may be what happens, or they may calm down and decide not to fight at all; but that doesn't change the fact that if they DID have an all out war, it would be devastating. That's why they need to talk it out like civilized people, cut the nationalistic dick-waving, and NOT have a war.

I doubt it will be much more than a message. Israel has been a nation of hyper-aggressive assholes since it's inception, and they've been more than ready to fire on ships flying any nation's colors for kicks. Since the last time they decided to blow up/board a ship it was Turkish, the Turks are letting Israel know they aren't going to tolerate their shit.

Israel might be America's golden boy, but when it comes to Turkish national sovereignty, they don't get a free pass out, even if they play the holocaust card.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

Israel got a good stuffing from Hezbollah in the Lebanon a few years ago.

Not really. When people say that Israel lost and Hezbollah won then it's because Israel's goal was to eliminate Hezbollah and Hezbollah's goal was not to get eliminated. Tactically, Hezbollah got the shit kicked out of them.

Israel vs Hezbollah will not be Israel vs Turkey

[Nazi Flower Power]

I hope Israeli government supposes Turkey like arabs and will do a mistake so they'll see what's in their ass.

I hope they don't.

[Serrland]

There can't be any nation else in the world that is loyal to USA than Turkey. It is the biggest puppet state of Americans which do everything USA requests instantly.

Israel is independent about this issue, this is the difference. A Kemalist-Independent Turkey would drown Israel with its spits though. But not with this government. And not when we have american bases in our lands.

We asked Turkey to contribute troops for stabilization of Iraq. Turkey refused and instead went after the Kurds, further contributing to instability in Iraq.They don't always do what we ask.

"Went after the Kurds" meaning attacked the PKK, which had been waging a terrorist campaign against Turkey for decades? An organization which, mind, the United States has deemed a terrorist group.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

Israel got a good stuffing from Hezbollah in the Lebanon a few years ago. For all their superiority and force multipliers... the individual soldiers and coordination was terrible.

They completely under-estimated the ability of fighting an actual uniformed fighting force with radio communication between men, artillery (mortars) and prepared defensive positions, defending their own territory, as opposed to barely trained durka terrorists.

The war was a total disaster, they took more than 700 casualties and of the 2000 they killed in return, that was almost entirely civilians killed by strategic bombing and artillery. On the battlefield they gained ground at massive cost and it wasn't until almost the first week had gone by the Israeli generals actually realised their casualties were through the roof.

Some may view 120 dead soldiers vs 300 dead enemy combatants as an Israeli victory.
Hezbollah saw 2:1 ratio as a storming victory, the Taliban are happy with a 1:40 ratio.
Against a fairly modern army like turkey, I don't see Israel doing as well as they do against half-starved terrorists. Remember the Yom Kippur war almost ended in Isreali defeat - there's a reason Israel hasn't started a military war against a military power since the 70s - they've realised they're only good at stealing land of submissive countries intimidated by them.

Oh no you didnt...
I am lebanese and hate every single poltical party here... (sorry uncle)
the 2006 "war" was phoney...
What did Israel do?
I will tell you what: Bombed bridges with planes: Period
Hezbollah did not do anything and civilians died, and that crazy doof Nasrallah claims "victory"... OH PLEASE!

Israel greatly overreacted by invading a secular and democratic Lebanon. The US was idiotic for encouraging them. Bush was too stupid to realize that Hezbollah, unlike now, was not in control of Lebanon.
Bush could ended it by telling Israel to knock it off. Instead he encouraged them without having a clue what was going on over there.

[Kemaliste]

There can't be any nation else in the world that is loyal to USA than Turkey. It is the biggest puppet state of Americans which do everything USA requests instantly.

Israel is independent about this issue, this is the difference. A Kemalist-Independent Turkey would drown Israel with its spits though. But not with this government. And not when we have american bases in our lands.

We asked Turkey to contribute troops for stabilization of Iraq. Turkey refused and instead went after the Kurds, further contributing to instability in Iraq.They don't always do what we ask.

Again same issue You all forget that Turkey is a parliamentary democracy. When USA requested it, AKP could not do this without approval of parliament. Erdogan proposed the law himself but he couldn't convince his own deputies. Excepting nearly 100 AKP deputies, all of AKP deputies voted in favor including Gul and Erdogan, but opposition parties voted against.

Later, Erdogan didn't even nominate any of these deputies who voted against next elections in 2007.

There was nothing Erdogan could do. Then he complained US diplomats his own deputies and opposition party CHP blaming them to be so nationalist.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Israeli threads always do.
Come back in 24 hours and it'll be three times as big and at least five posters will have been compared to Hitler.

It's us. We are TEAM HITLER.

SIEG HEIL!

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

Turkey is as secular as America.

Yeah, in that there's still a massive representation in the government of the majority religion and said religion gets free passes on things.

Uh... Turkey is a secular nation...

So is Indonesia, but they still have Islamic prayer rituals at government functions.

Turkey is a secular nation in the loosest usage of the term.

According to their constitution, Turkey is a secular nation.

[Kemaliste]

No in Turkish lands. I don't mind if they'll do it in Iraqi, Iranian, Syrian or Madagascar lands.

Current Turkish lands are called '' National Oath '' that could never be changed. It was determined in Treaty of Lausanne and we made all of the states accept it. This is the last thing Turkey could make concessions.

But the people there wants independence. How is Turkish expansionism/imperialism in Kurdish lands different than the American one? Isn't what you're saying double standard?

These lands were Turkish, are Turkish and will remain Turkish. We gained them by blood and they are given only by blood. Wrong or right, we'll solve it ourself, no one will interfere in this issue.

[Serrland]

Oh no you didnt...
I am lebanese and hate every single poltical party here... (sorry uncle)
the 2006 "war" was phoney...
What did Israel do?
I will tell you what: Bombed bridges with planes: Period
Hezbollah did not do anything and civilians died, and that crazy doof Nasrallah claims "victory"... OH PLEASE!

Israel greatly overreacted by invading a secular and democratic Lebanon. The US was idiotic for encouraging them. Bush was too stupid to realize that Hezbollah, unlike now, was not in control of Lebanon.
Bush could ended it by telling Israel to knock it off. Instead he encouraged them without having a clue what was going on over there.

Aye. Israel attacking Hezbollah (and non-Hezbollah targets) within Lebanon was the best thing that could have happened to that group.

[New England and The Maritimes]

Israel greatly overreacted by invading a secular and democratic Lebanon. The US was idiotic for encouraging them. Bush was too stupid to realize that Hezbollah, unlike now, was not in control of Lebanon.
Bush could ended it by telling Israel to knock it off. Instead he encouraged them without having a clue what was going on over there.

Aye. Israel attacking Hezbollah (and non-Hezbollah targets) within Lebanon was the best thing that could have happened to that group.

How dare Lebanon exist as a nation that isn't Israel. The Chosen People require lebensraum.

[Alyakia]

Aye. Israel attacking Hezbollah (and non-Hezbollah targets) within Lebanon was the best thing that could have happened to that group.

How dare Lebanon exist as a nation that isn't Israel. The Chosen People require lebensraum.

That's a weird way of spelling "settlements"!

[Caerlia]

But the people there wants independence. How is Turkish expansionism/imperialism in Kurdish lands different than the American one? Isn't what you're saying double standard?

These lands were Turkish, are Turkish and will remain Turkish. We gained them by blood and they are given only by blood. Wrong or right, we'll solve it ourself, no one will interfere in this issue.

So if the United States is imperialist, it's wrong.... but when Turkey is imperialist, it's somehow warranted? Hypocritical much?

[Kemaliste]

Yeah, in that there's still a massive representation in the government of the majority religion and said religion gets free passes on things.


So is Indonesia, but they still have Islamic prayer rituals at government functions.

Turkey is a secular nation in the loosest usage of the term.

According to their constitution, Turkey is a secular nation.

Yes and it's a unchangeable principle. The most protected principle of the state. Even though AKP holds the greatest power they had today, they still can't break some secularist rules. Even though they were so powerful, they couldn't dare nominate a '' veil-wearing women '' as a deputy in 2011 parliamentery elections.

There is a deep state (bureaucracy), above the ruling party. That's what they hesitate.

[Vestr-Norig]

But the people there wants independence. How is Turkish expansionism/imperialism in Kurdish lands different than the American one? Isn't what you're saying double standard?

These lands were Turkish, are Turkish and will remain Turkish. We gained them by blood and they are given only by blood. Wrong or right, we'll solve it ourself, no one will interfere in this issue.

Those lands has not always been Turkish, once they were Kurdish, and the people there still is Kurdish, with a unique culture and language, compared to the Turkish. Those lands are only Turkish because you took it by force a long time ago, not because you were the first to settle there and build houses there or anything like that. According to your argument, a third of the world should still be British, because they took it for a long time ago and claimed it "their lands".

[Serrland]

According to their constitution, Turkey is a secular nation.

Yes and it's a unchangeable principle. The most protected principle of the state. Even though AKP holds the greatest power they had today, they still can't break some secularist rules. Even though they were so powerful, they couldn't dare nominate a '' veil-wearing women '' as a deputy in 2011 parliamentery elections.

There is a deep state (bureaucracy), above the ruling party. That's what they hesitate.

If I recall correctly from a course I took on Modern Turkey a few years back, the military is also a massively important and powerful force behind secularism.

[Kemaliste]

These lands were Turkish, are Turkish and will remain Turkish. We gained them by blood and they are given only by blood. Wrong or right, we'll solve it ourself, no one will interfere in this issue.

Those lands has not always been Turkish, once they were Kurdish, and the people there still is Kurdish, with a unique culture and language, compared to the Turkish. Those lands are only Turkish because you took it by force a long time ago, not because you were the first to settle there and build houses there or anything like that. According to your argument, a third of the world should still be British, because they took it for a long time ago and claimed it "their lands".

Actually I meant, French forces invaded there and we secured them. That's why I said '' gaining '' because we were not even a state when we gained them. Kemalist revolutionary civilian forces fought and won, that's all.

Before us, White people will leave America and Australia, Spanish will leave South America. Then we may think.

[Kemaliste]

Yes and it's a unchangeable principle. The most protected principle of the state. Even though AKP holds the greatest power they had today, they still can't break some secularist rules. Even though they were so powerful, they couldn't dare nominate a '' veil-wearing women '' as a deputy in 2011 parliamentery elections.

There is a deep state (bureaucracy), above the ruling party. That's what they hesitate.

If I recall correctly from a course I took on Modern Turkey a few years back, the military is also a massively important and powerful force behind secularism.

I didn't count it because I don't think they would make another coup in a year like 2011. But they will do everything to protect it, yes.

[New England and The Maritimes]

How dare Lebanon exist as a nation that isn't Israel. The Chosen People require lebensraum.

That's a weird way of spelling "settlements"!

The final solution to the Palestinian problem is at hand. We must strap 13 year old boys to the hoods of our cars and shoot gazan farmers wherever they may appear. When people riot at the sight of their homes being bulldozed to make way for park greens so the real Human beings in Israel can have somewhere for their dogs to take a shit, you blow them away with assault rifles. Eventually, my Aryan Hebrew brothers, the Grossdeutsches Reich Nation of Israel will take it's rightful place.

[Alyakia]

Those lands has not always been Turkish, once they were Kurdish, and the people there still is Kurdish, with a unique culture and language, compared to the Turkish. Those lands are only Turkish because you took it by force a long time ago, not because you were the first to settle there and build houses there or anything like that. According to your argument, a third of the world should still be British, because they took it for a long time ago and claimed it "their lands".

Actually I meant, French forces invaded there and we secured them. That's why I said '' gaining '' because we were not even a state when we gained them. Kemalist revolutionary civilian forces fought and won, that's all.

Before us, White people will leave America and Australia, Spanish will leave South America. Then we may think.

There's no way that's shitty circular logic that will lead to no one doing anything!

[North Calaveras]

Those lands has not always been Turkish, once they were Kurdish, and the people there still is Kurdish, with a unique culture and language, compared to the Turkish. Those lands are only Turkish because you took it by force a long time ago, not because you were the first to settle there and build houses there or anything like that. According to your argument, a third of the world should still be British, because they took it for a long time ago and claimed it "their lands".

Actually I meant, French forces invaded there and we secured them. That's why I said '' gaining '' because we were not even a state when we gained them. Kemalist revolutionary civilian forces fought and won, that's all.

Before us, White people will leave America and Australia, Spanish will leave South America. Then we may think.

Spanish people are white to...its not like Europeans are white and the spanish are somehow separated.

[Kemaliste]

These lands were Turkish, are Turkish and will remain Turkish. We gained them by blood and they are given only by blood. Wrong or right, we'll solve it ourself, no one will interfere in this issue.

So if the United States is imperialist, it's wrong.... but when Turkey is imperialist, it's somehow warranted? Hypocritical much?

Turkey doesn't invade any country coming beyond a huge ocean.

[Kemaliste]

Actually I meant, French forces invaded there and we secured them. That's why I said '' gaining '' because we were not even a state when we gained them. Kemalist revolutionary civilian forces fought and won, that's all.

Before us, White people will leave America and Australia, Spanish will leave South America. Then we may think.

Spanish people are white to...its not like Europeans are white and the spanish are somehow separated.

Whatever. You got my message.

[North Calaveras]

Spanish people are white to...its not like Europeans are white and the spanish are somehow separated.

Whatever. You got my message.

I did, just don't like how people seperate things like that. I'm kind of on your side but im also against you, this is grey for me...hmm.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Israel. Defenceless. Really? The nation that has pretty much been in perpetual conflict since its inception? The nation that took on and crushed two invasions by its neighbours, the second of which Israel was caught off guard? The Nation that has some of the most advanced weapons in the world and has a fully functioning domestic arms industry? On top of which the fact that is de facto accepted that Israel posses Nuclear weapons and will most likely use them.

AND Israel will also be on the defensive.

Compared to Turkey, I sadly do not think Israel would stand a chanse without support from the western world.

That's why they should apologize to Turkey.