Turkey Preparing for War with Israel

[Kemaliste]

If Isaels is invaded, NATO and the rest of the western world should clearely interfere on Israel's side. It was we who gave them their land back again, after it was lost to the muslims who by force took it for houndreds of years ago, and it is we who should prevent the same thing to happen again.

not realistic considering that Turkey is a member of NATO and Israel is not. The most that NATO might do, is evict or suspend Turkey from the alliance. I really don't see the US involving itself since it has close relations with both countries. The British and French also seem to have close relations with both nations, meaning they are also more likely to stay neutral than get involved.

I hope there will be no need for a suspending. When these fascist american servants fall down, we'll leave it immediately and close all of these imperialists bases in our holy lands. We need nobody to advocate our rights.

I see a bright and independent future for Turkey !

[Alyakia]

Strategically yes, but a massive failure for the US who had been parading around going on about how much they had completely crushed the North and Viet Cong, when suddenly a gigantic offensive is launched.

First off, they won the propaganda battle, not the military one. Gigantic offensive? I wouldn't call it gigantic, it was just taking place in a lot of places at around the same time.

They won the propaganda battle, not the military one. So, uh, you lost?

[The Matthew Islands]

The Israeli's didn't have Mekava's, which I think is designed to have the maximum amount of survivability.

Merkava's are vulnerable to 2-stage RPG rounds. It may not kill the crew, but it'll fuck up the tank.

Perhaps, and after looking on Wikipedia I see that Egypt has vastly improved its inventory since the 70's and probably would eventually win out.

[New England and The Maritimes]

In b4 Turkey kicks Israel's ass shortly after Israel starts an unofficial open season on Turkish vessels.

Israel wholly deserves more than a "Please stop shooting down neutral and allied ships, bombing UN schools as they let out and arresting humanitarian groups, pretty please." Still, this shows a worrying amount of Islamist influence. Erdogan has to go, by force if necessary.

The people of Turkey have to make that decision at the ballot box. One should not encourage violent overthrows of governments except as a last resort and only to protect the lives of millions of innocents. But when one does, one should not lie about it as NATO did in Libya.

If Erdogan and his Islamist faction gain enough control, the people of turkey will suffer under a theocratic state. Especially the women. Girls will be "discouraged" from going to school, women will be "discouraged" from being in public by themselves, etc. Him, and everyone like him, need to be reminded that their religion has no place in government. If he won't shut up and accept secularism, he should be replaced with someone who will.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

Shit this has been going on for a long time.

Israeli threads always do.
Come back in 24 hours and it'll be three times as big and at least five posters will have been compared to Hitler.

I posted this thread late last night. I come back and it is already 30 pages in length. I gave up on trying to catch up.

[North Calaveras]

First off, they won the propaganda battle, not the military one. Gigantic offensive? I wouldn't call it gigantic, it was just taking place in a lot of places at around the same time.

They won the propaganda battle, not the military one. So, uh, you lost?

Yes we lost the propaganda battle.

[Laerod]

This is what I mean. You've shown extreme ignorance on the topic of the holocaust and yet you berate others for not knowing fairly obscure facts.

If you talk like you're knowing the situation very well, even more than me (as a Turkish), It'll be my answer of course.

Again, you're really not one to talk.

Erdogan has never gone against USA. The example you showed me blowed up in your face.

He hasn't? So when the ambassador to the US was recalled, this was a sign of support or what?

[The Matthew Islands]

Strategically yes, but a massive failure for the US who had been parading around going on about how much they had completely crushed the North and Viet Cong, when suddenly a gigantic offensive is launched.

First off, they won the propaganda battle, not the military one. Gigantic offensive? I wouldn't call it gigantic, it was just taking place in a lot of places at around the same time.

The propoganda victory was probably just as important as the military one since the US wasn't able to properly capitalise on it and the North was.

Also I'd call an offensive involving almost 1.5 million people on both sides (wiki) a gigantic offensive. Perhaps maybe not gigantic, but it was still a very large offensive.

[Kemaliste]

The people of Turkey have to make that decision at the ballot box. One should not encourage violent overthrows of governments except as a last resort and only to protect the lives of millions of innocents. But when one does, one should not lie about it as NATO did in Libya.

If Erdogan and his Islamist faction gain enough control, the people of turkey will suffer under a theocratic state. Especially the women. Girls will be "discouraged" from going to school, women will be "discouraged" from being in public by themselves, etc. Him, and everyone like him, need to be reminded that their religion has no place in government. If he won't shut up and accept secularism, he should be replaced with someone who will.

Erdogan and his party is just conservative, not islamist. They've denied it themselves. Don't exaggerate somethings, this is not Iran. Turkey is secular democray and will remain it forever.

Unfortunately these western people consider all of conservative muslims as ISLAMISTS. They're not worse than '' christian democrats '', believe me.

Women are still prohibited to wear headscarf in schools and public areas, it will be so hard to do them all.

[Alyakia]

They won the propaganda battle, not the military one. So, uh, you lost?

Yes we lost the propaganda battle.

And thus, the war~?

[Vestr-Norig]

not realistic considering that Turkey is a member of NATO and Israel is not. The most that NATO might do, is evict or suspend Turkey from the alliance. I really don't see the US involving itself since it has close relations with both countries. The British and French also seem to have close relations with both nations, meaning they are also more likely to stay neutral than get involved.

I hope there will be no need for a suspending. When these fascist american servants fall down, we'll leave it immediately and close all of these imperialists bases in our holy lands. We need nobody to advocate our rights.

I see a bright and independent future for Turkey !

What with the rights to the Kurds in Turkey? Hmm?

[New England and The Maritimes]

First off, they won the propaganda battle, not the military one. Gigantic offensive? I wouldn't call it gigantic, it was just taking place in a lot of places at around the same time.

They won the propaganda battle, not the military one. So, uh, you lost?

1973 Peace Accords? Henry Kissinger won the Nobel Prize for Peace, ringing any bells? The US had withdrawn combat troops, and was restricted to providing money and supplies to Thieu, with personnel in a support role(hospital staff and military advisors mostly,) remaining in Saigon to both coordinate these shipments and provide low-intensity support.

[The Matthew Islands]

Yes we lost the propaganda battle.

And thus, the war~?

Do I sense a Toy soldiers reference or am I being to obscure?

[Kemaliste]

If you talk like you're knowing the situation very well, even more than me (as a Turkish), It'll be my answer of course.

Again, you're really not one to talk.

Erdogan has never gone against USA. The example you showed me blowed up in your face.

He hasn't? So when the ambassador to the US was recalled, this was a sign of support or what?

When o.O ?

[Alyakia]

And thus, the war~?

Do I sense a Toy soldiers reference or am I being to obscure?

No reference I'm afraid. ):

[Kemaliste]

I hope there will be no need for a suspending. When these fascist american servants fall down, we'll leave it immediately and close all of these imperialists bases in our holy lands. We need nobody to advocate our rights.

I see a bright and independent future for Turkey !

What with the rights to the Kurds in Turkey? Hmm?

We'll solve it ourself and will let nobody interfere in it. Turkey is not a banana republic.

[The Matthew Islands]

Do I sense a Toy soldiers reference or am I being to obscure?

No reference I'm afraid. ):

[Vestr-Norig]

What with the rights to the Kurds in Turkey? Hmm?

We'll solve it ourself and will let nobody interfere in it. Turkey is not a banana republic.

But you do support their right to self-determination, or...? If not, your arguments to now has been nothing but empty words.

[Delmire]

With the arab spring descending into winter this could just blow the whole region up again, i doubt any foreign country would get involved without some serious gains to be had for themselves. To many wars going on already and with the economy (esp Greece) in with the dogs i dont think any 'humanitarian' grounds will be observed in deciding.

[Nazi Flower Power]

No one's going to riot in the streets in support of Israel in this situation. There's a difference between supporting Israel and supporting Israel unconditionally or supporting Israel enough to riot in the street.

And "rock throwing"? Wow... Turkey can do a lot more than throw rocks. It would be devastating if Turkey and Israel went to war, no matter who won. You need to understand that a war with Turkey would be something different from the Israeli-Arab feud that's been going on for decades.

On the contrary, I doubt all that much devastation would happen- to civilians, at least, aside from economic effects. Assuming, since they've been upping the ante and due to NATO concerns, that Turkey attacks Israel, and that they go on the offensive first. The main event would be a battle for air superiority in the Eastern Med and over Israel, and I can see Israel at least keeping control of its air and that of the sea near to it, and Turkey keeping control of its portion.

Thus Turkey wouldn't be able to threaten Israel navally, nor would Israel be able to threaten Turkey. Perhaps there would be the occasional bombing of a coastal city, but I think stalemate is the most likely result.

You're assuming it doesn't escalate into an all out war, that it's just a bit of dick-waving with live ammo. That may be what happens, or they may calm down and decide not to fight at all; but that doesn't change the fact that if they DID have an all out war, it would be devastating. That's why they need to talk it out like civilized people, cut the nationalistic dick-waving, and NOT have a war.

[Kemaliste]

We'll solve it ourself and will let nobody interfere in it. Turkey is not a banana republic.

But you do support their right to self-determination, or? If not, your arguments to now has been nothing but empty words.

No in Turkish lands. I don't mind if they'll do it in Iraqi, Iranian, Syrian or Madagascar lands.

Current Turkish lands are called '' National Oath '' that could never be changed. It was determined in Treaty of Lausanne and we made all of the states accept it. This is the last thing Turkey could make concessions.

The politics is clear, '' Be loyal or leave ''

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

I didn't say they was invading, just that if they invaded, NATO should take side by Israel, although I do think the invading scenario is douptful.

Turkey is not invader like Israel. It shall take a revenge for its killed citizens and this is our right. Sinking some ships and bombing some Israeli military areas via air forces are enough

That would garner retaliation from Israel which has already proven it would have no gumption about flying its planes through Syria to bomb Turkish bases. The complication is that there are still US bases in Turkey. The reason the US allows the Turks to attack Kurds in Afghanistan was because the US needed to ship its supplies into Iraq via Turkey. Most of the fuel and food supplies that fed US forces in Iraq went through Turkey.

[Kemaliste]

Turkey is not invader like Israel. It shall take a revenge for its killed citizens and this is our right. Sinking some ships and bombing some Israeli military areas via air forces are enough

That would garner retaliation from Israel which has already proven it would have no gumption about flying its planes through Syria to bomb Turkish bases. The complication is that there are still US bases in Turkey. The reason the US allows the Turks to attack Kurds in Afghanistan was because the US needed to ship its supplies into Iraq via Turkey. Most of the fuel and food supplies that fed US forces in Iraq went through Turkey.

Don't worry, current government never does something like that. But when Kemalists come to power, bases will have already been closed, all of relations with USA will be cut and we will be knowing what to do.

[UnitedStatesOfAmerica-]

There can't be any nation else in the world that is loyal to USA than Turkey. It is the biggest puppet state of Americans which do everything USA requests instantly.

Israel is independent about this issue, this is the difference. A Kemalist-Independent Turkey would drown Israel with its spits though. But not with this government. And not when we have american bases in our lands.

We asked Turkey to contribute troops for stabilization of Iraq. Turkey refused and instead went after the Kurds, further contributing to instability in Iraq.They don't always do what we ask.

[Vestr-Norig]

But you do support their right to self-determination, or? If not, your arguments to now has been nothing but empty words.

No in Turkish lands. I don't mind if they'll do it in Iraqi, Iranian, Syrian or Madagascar lands.

Current Turkish lands are called '' National Oath '' that could never be changed. It was determined in Treaty of Lausanne and we made all of the states accept it. This is the last thing Turkey could make concessions.

But the people there wants independence. How is Turkish expansionism/imperialism in Kurdish lands different than the American one? Isn't what you're saying double standard?