Turkey Preparing for War with Israel

[Southern Patriots]

Face facts, Israel isn't going anywhere.

I'm sure the real Israel said the same thing.

[Salvarity]

they were fighting an Army that invaded there home country. During that time they were acting more like Viet Cong than Al-Qauda

Funilly enough, the people now that are fighting an army that is invading their home country have been branded as, you guessed it, terro- oh goddamit ):

Western Imperialism.

Lets just be sensible .
we both know it's American Imperialism and they're just trying to further there influence. Supplying Mujihadeen was just to drive out soviets so they could set up a sham democracy

[Keronians]

here are a few facts.

Foreign Money created Israel

Israel got Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula during a war.

The fact israel was illegally created has pissed off many of countries in the middle east

Israel treating Palestine like crap makes it less safe.

Without Foreign Aid israel economic will crash

Um, ya, everyone who lives there now except the Druze and Bedouin are foreign up until at least 4-5 generations ago. So ya, foreign money. OK, same with the entire rest of the mid-east, their regimes were created and propped up by foreign money too.

Yes, the Golan Heights were acquired during a defensive war. Per the laws of war, no country need cede back territory taken in a defensive war. So good luck on that.

Yup. The UN Security Council, and the International Court of Justice, you know, the people who determine what violates international law and the rules of war, and what doesn't, are wrong, and you are right.

[Empires Empire]

Damn, I'd better tell the International Court of Justice and the UN Security Council that Israel thinks they're wrong.

Nobody's starving and dying in Gaza? That's really rich. Tell me, do you also believe that there is no ethnic cleansing going on over there?

Their economy is not being allowed to develop by Israel!

I really don't have to prove that there's a bias against Israel in the UN, the UN is a total joke.
No, some people are starving in Gaza, but it's not due to a lack of food availability, it's due to insane taxes placed on products by the Hamas govt. in attempts to save its pathetic govt. from its impending economic doom. The food sits on shelves, often for a long time, as many cant afford it. Most CAN afford it however. Cheaper Israeli goods are prohibited by the Hamas regulations.
Their economy is not developing because nobody wants to visit a luxury hotel or a waterpark in the middle of a terrorist state where you can be dragged into the streets and shot by masked goons, or have them launch rockets from your hotel roof just to taunt Israeli artillery fire. Go figure. That, and the only thing they bother to manufacture is qassam rockets for the afore mentioned purpose.

[Alyakia]

it's due to insane taxes placed on products by the Hamas govt. in attempts to save its pathetic govt. from its impending economic doom. The food sits on shelves, often for a long time, as many cant afford it. Most CAN afford it however. Cheaper Israeli goods are prohibited by the Hamas regulations.

Oh do source.

oh god you're actually making a little bit of sense now

[Keronians]

Damn, I'd better tell the International Court of Justice and the UN Security Council that Israel thinks they're wrong.

Nobody's starving and dying in Gaza? That's really rich. Tell me, do you also believe that there is no ethnic cleansing going on over there?

Their economy is not being allowed to develop by Israel!

I really don't have to prove that there's a bias against Israel in the UN, the UN is a total joke.
No, some people are starving in Gaza, but it's not due to a lack of food availability, it's due to insane taxes placed on products by the Hamas govt. in attempts to save its pathetic govt. from its impending economic doom. The food sits on shelves, often for a long time, as many cant afford it. Most CAN afford it however. Cheaper Israeli goods are prohibited by the Hamas regulations.
Their economy is not developing because nobody wants to visit a luxury hotel or a waterpark in the middle of a terrorist state where you can be dragged into the streets and shot by masked goons, or have them launch rockets from your hotel roof just to taunt Israeli artillery fire. Go figure.

Actually, it's because of Israel banning stuff like chocolate from getting through.

Economy is not based on tourism.

Business activity combining the scarce factors of production to satisfy people's needs and wants profitably, and then using that money to purchase other products, and invest it, is what results in wealth creation.

Entrepreneurship is discouraged because your business can be bombed, or looted at any time by Israel.

Wait. THERE'S A BIAS AGAINST ISRAEL IN THE UN?

That's rich. That's really rich. The organisation which has been saving your ass from intervention from other countries for decades is biased against you.

[Sorratsin]

Funilly enough, the people now that are fighting an army that is invading their home country have been branded as, you guessed it, terro- oh goddamit ):

Western Imperialism.

Lets just be sensible .
we both know it's American Imperialism and they're just trying to further there influence. Supplying Mujihadeen was just to drive out soviets so they could set up a sham democracy

We didn't do a damn thing in Afghanistan after the Soviet pull out, that was part of the reason why the Taliban came into power so quickly.

[Michael Rosen]

the middle east is always going to war, but this time i think something big is going to happen O.o

[Tsavos]

What would be interesting is if Turkey does attack the Israeli navy. To get troops to Israel it would have to move through Syria. This would, ironically, bring Iran into the war on the side of Israel.

How many people can see that happening? It happened with the UK and France, long time bitter enemies, when they ended up on the same side in World War 1 and World War 2.

Then if Greece chooses to get involved to end Turkey interfering in Cyprus, you then have a classic pincer movement:
Greece from the west
Israel Syria from the South
Iraq and Iran from the east.
Perhaps Russia from the North since Turkey is closer to Russia than Israel and more of a threat than Israel is.

Turkey can only lose if it starts a major war in the region. Especially since it is highly unlikely the US or Europe will support a war of aggression in the name of defending a terrorist organization.

Iran will never side with Israel in any armed conflict. That notion is literaly against the Islamic Republic of Iran's constitution. The Ayatollahs would lose all credibility in the government if that happened. Iran would gladly let Turkey move through Syria treaty or not if Turkey was going to attack Israel.However I don't see Turkey attackimg Israel as they are both major powers in the region. This is just more saber-rattling by AIPAC to squeeze the American government for more military and economic aid.

[Empires Empire]

Actually, it's because of Israel banning stuff like chocolate from getting through.

Economy is not based on tourism.

Business activity combining the scarce factors of production to satisfy people's needs and wants profitably, and then using that money to purchase other products, and invest it, is what results in wealth creation.

Entrepreneurship is discouraged because your business can be bombed, or looted at any time by Israel.

Wait. THERE'S A BIAS AGAINST ISRAEL IN THE UN?

That's rich. That's really rich. The organisation which has been saving your ass from intervention from other countries for decades is biased against you.

Your information is not up to date. At all, chocolate is not banned. It's readily available there, mostly imported from Egypt, except people have to pay not only the high Egyptian price, and the Egyptian tariff, but also Hamas taxes.

There wasn't always an economic crisis in Gaza (which is a city, not a country. trying to be 100% independent is not likely viable. Imagine a small city near you tried to do that!). Before, hundreds of thousands of its residents had employment in Israel. The terrorism starting with the Oslo and Camp David accords in the 90's caused that to no longer be possible. Gaza wasn't always under blockade. It's not like that's just done for fun.

Also yes, most member nations in the UN are highly biased against Israel. Over a hundred Muslim countries and their friends. The Security Council is not. This means yes, there are plenty of biased (non-binding) resolutions passed by the general assembly against Israel. Even a few biased ones passed by the Security Council, but that's just political par for the course for them to use it for their own interests (Usually american/russian conflict).

[Alyakia]

Over a hundred Muslim countries and their friends.

Quick math.

[Salvarity]

Actually, it's because of Israel banning stuff like chocolate from getting through.

Economy is not based on tourism.

Business activity combining the scarce factors of production to satisfy people's needs and wants profitably, and then using that money to purchase other products, and invest it, is what results in wealth creation.

Entrepreneurship is discouraged because your business can be bombed, or looted at any time by Israel.

Wait. THERE'S A BIAS AGAINST ISRAEL IN THE UN?

That's rich. That's really rich. The organisation which has been saving your ass from intervention from other countries for decades is biased against you.

Your information is not up to date. At all, chocolate is not banned. It's readily available there, mostly imported from Egypt, except people have to pay not only the high Egyptian price, and the Egyptian tariff, but also Hamas taxes.

There wasn't always an economic crisis in Gaza (which is a city, not a country. trying to be 100% independent is not likely viable. Imagine a small city near you tried to do that!). Before, hundreds of thousands of its residents had employment in Israel. The terrorism starting with the Oslo and Camp David accords in the 90's caused that to no longer be possible. Gaza wasn't always under blockade. It's not like that's just done for fun.

Also yes, most member nations in the UN are highly biased against Israel. Over a hundred Muslim countries and their friends. The Security Council is not. This means yes, there are plenty of biased (non-binding) resolutions passed by the general assembly against Israel. Even a few biased ones passed by the Security Council, but that's just political par for the course for them to use it for their own interests (Usually american/russian conflict).

you do know the american/russian conflict ended like 20 years ago.
and how are they're over 100 muslim countries and they're friends. name half of them.

[Etriel]

I agree, the Israeli Defense Force is one of the best-trained, best-equipped units EVER. With the support of their nation's booming weapons industry, they very well could hold their own against Turkey. Plus, if it got right down to it, they could easily mount a guerrilla war if Israel were occupied. Still, I think that once Turkey instigated it, the war would quickly expand as the various political nuances of the region led to other countries jumping in on either side. We saw this before in WWI; the European nations were separated into factions spawned from, again, political nuance, making the region a powder-keg, the spark being Ferdinand getting whacked. I just hope Turkey realizes this and backs down in time. With a major war in the oil font of the world, we'll be involved for sure.

[Kemaliste]

I can't say I'm agree with Israeli government's politics. And I've cursed Israeli government many times here. But there is a fact, Israel is being ruled from Jerusalem, but Turkey is being ruled from Washington. Israel decides what should they do or not theirself, but Turkey is just doing its homeworks from Washington Primary School. That's why Turkey is trying to gain arabs faith, that's why Turkey is threatening Syria (although Turkish government was considered as a strong supporter of Syrian regime until this year) to attack without any reason, that's why Turkey betrayed Gaddafi who was our friend (and who sent us weapon aid in Cyprus Operation) joining the invasion of Libya and that's why Turkey accepted NATO missile shields (that will defend Israel from Iran) when it blow Israel's top which is so ironical. All of these things show that Turkish government has no a reasonable and stable politics. Today Turkey is betraying the nations who were its friends yesterday because of commands from Washington.

NOTE: Some little einsteins may ask; '' why Turkey is going against Israel which is an ally of USA if it's a really puppet of Washington ? '' well I said Turkey is trying to be in MUSLIM WORLDS and TURKISH PEOPLES confidence, use your brain please. If Turkey really wanted to make Israel pay for somethings, they wouldn't step back on '' cutting all the relations '' issue. All of these things have already been planned by big brother.

I'm really ashamed of my country. Turkey's international prestige has been collapsed in 9 years.

[Salvarity]

I agree, the Israeli Defense Force is one of the best-trained, best-equipped units EVER. With the support of their nation's booming weapons industry, they very well could hold their own against Turkey. Plus, if it got right down to it, they could easily mount a guerrilla war if Israel were occupied. Still, I think that once Turkey instigated it, the war would quickly expand as the various political nuances of the region led to other countries jumping in on either side. We saw this before in WWI; the European nations were separated into factions spawned from, again, political nuance, making the region a powder-keg, the spark being Ferdinand getting whacked. I just hope Turkey realizes this and backs down in time. With a major war in the oil font of the world, we'll be involved for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp4fwumUDLg

Replace America with Israel
Replace Russia with Turkey
Replace North Korea with Iran
Replace China with America

[Tmutarakhan]

Show us some examples of these Jewish-Jew haters hanging around with Jew killers and killing Jews, who they want to be pushed out to the sea.

Here you go. These are the same people (this little sect only has a few dozen members, not much larger than Westboro Baptist Church).

[Southern Patriots]

Show us some examples of these Jewish-Jew haters hanging around with Jew killers and killing Jews, who they want to be pushed out to the sea.

Here you go. These are the same people (this little sect only has a few dozen members, not much larger than Westboro Baptist Church).

Proof that they hate Jews?

Remember, children, Zionism is not Judaism. Opposing Zionism is not opposing Judaism.

[Kemaliste]

I liked your great post on Kemalism and anti-imperialism Kemaliste.

What is the general Kurdish opinion of Kemalism in Turkey?

Whatever you heard about the situation of Kurdish issue in Turkey is the general treatment of Kemalist state against them. Although the politics will change soon, because Kemalist deep state (or bureaucracy) began to lose power (or has already lost everything) and pro-kurdish ruling party AKP has been stronger than ever. Nobody should be surprised if they gain autonomy soon.(and Kemalists are no longer able to block it)

[Tmutarakhan]

Here you go. These are the same people (this little sect only has a few dozen members, not much larger than Westboro Baptist Church).

Proof that they hate Jews?

Remember, children, Zionism is not Judaism. Opposing Zionism is not opposing Judaism.

You asked to see an example of them hanging around with people who want to wipe out Jews.

[Keronians]

Actually, it's because of Israel banning stuff like chocolate from getting through.

Economy is not based on tourism.

Business activity combining the scarce factors of production to satisfy people's needs and wants profitably, and then using that money to purchase other products, and invest it, is what results in wealth creation.

Entrepreneurship is discouraged because your business can be bombed, or looted at any time by Israel.

Wait. THERE'S A BIAS AGAINST ISRAEL IN THE UN?

That's rich. That's really rich. The organisation which has been saving your ass from intervention from other countries for decades is biased against you.

Your information is not up to date. At all, chocolate is not banned. It's readily available there, mostly imported from Egypt, except people have to pay not only the high Egyptian price, and the Egyptian tariff, but also Hamas taxes.

There wasn't always an economic crisis in Gaza (which is a city, not a country. trying to be 100% independent is not likely viable. Imagine a small city near you tried to do that!). Before, hundreds of thousands of its residents had employment in Israel. The terrorism starting with the Oslo and Camp David accords in the 90's caused that to no longer be possible. Gaza wasn't always under blockade. It's not like that's just done for fun.

Also yes, most member nations in the UN are highly biased against Israel. Over a hundred Muslim countries and their friends. The Security Council is not. This means yes, there are plenty of biased (non-binding) resolutions passed by the general assembly against Israel. Even a few biased ones passed by the Security Council, but that's just political par for the course for them to use it for their own interests (Usually american/russian conflict).

100 Muslim countries?

Also, yes, until recently, chocolate was one of the items Israel forbade from being delivered.

Not to mention that the flotilla's cargo was deemed acceptable at international standards at a Turkish port. The Israelis never had a problem with that before...

Also, the American/Russian conflict ended 20 years ago. While there is still some residue left over, it is not, by any means, as large.

Which is bad news for Israel since we no longer turn a blind eye to what it does.

[Empires Empire]

I can't say I'm agree with Israeli government's politics. And I've cursed Israeli government many times here. But there is a fact, Israel is being ruled from Jerusalem, but Turkey is being ruled from Washington. Israel decides what should they do or not theirself, but Turkey is just doing its homeworks from Washington Primary School. That's why Turkey is trying to gain arabs faith, that's why Turkey is threatening Syria (although Turkish government was considered as a strong supporter of Syrian regime until this year) to attack without any reason, that's why Turkey betrayed Gaddafi who was our friend (and who sent us weapon aid in Cyprus Operation) joining the invasion of Libya and that's why Turkey accepted NATO missile shields (that will defend Israel from Iran) when it blow Israel's top which is so ironical. All of these things show that Turkish government has no a reasonable and stable politics. Today Turkey is betraying the nations who were its friends yesterday because of commands from Washington.

Oh my, you're catching on that Israel has the right idea in this regard? If Turkey keeps taking all its policy cues from other countries, there wont BE a Turkey. Nations act in their own interests, or they should rather, some are acting in the interests of other nations who are acting in their own interests. Nobody's politics are perfect, and if you really act in your own defense honestly you're bound to make a few moves that anger a few people. It happens, but let's be honest, who's a better friend? Israel who only invests in and attempts cooperation with Turkey at every stage? Or perhaps a group of countries only interested in using Turkey to mold the religious mindset of other countries whose natural resources they'd love to have dominance over? You don't see Israel asking Turkey to join invasions of people who really weren't doing anything. You don't see Israel trying to get Turkey to allow missile interceptors against Iran on its soil. Hate to break it to ya, but those interceptors aren't for Israel's sake. They're in the wrong direction! They'd have to TAIL CHASE missiles going from Iran to Israel. They're to protect EUROPE, but hey, they'll blame it on the Zionists.

[Keronians]

Face facts, Israel isn't going anywhere.

I'm sure the real Israel said the same thing.

Israel shouldn't have been created back in 1949.

However, it was, and they now have a right to exist.

They do not, however, have the right to occupy territory which does not belong to them, and which does not want to be a part of them, to kill people there, starve them, and carry out ethnic cleansing, as well as, at every stage, refuse to have a peaceful solution to the conflict.

Hamas is part of the problem, but Israel's not being ideal or willing to negotiate either.

[Southern Patriots]

Proof that they hate Jews?

Remember, children, Zionism is not Judaism. Opposing Zionism is not opposing Judaism.

You asked to see an example of them hanging around with people who want to wipe out Jews.

I asked for proof that those Jews hate Jews. And has it been proven that Iran wants to wipe out all Jews and not just the Zionist state?

[New England and The Maritimes]

Turkey tried to attack Israel before and they failed. So seriously. Who has a better chance? I think Israel! But I will never understand why the arabs hate Israel so much.

Türkiye never tried to attack Israel (as a government or nation at least), and they certainly never failed. The Ottoman Empire (who the modern nation of Türkiye succeeded) at one point owned what is now currently Israel, long before it was Israeli, however they lost that almost a century ago. Türkler are not arabs, though they were the ruling ethnicity of an empire that owned a significant ammount of predominately arab land. If you don't understand why there is hostility between arab nations and the state of Israel then you need to do some catch up on the last sixty or so years. I suggest reading this thread, or doing some reading on your own time on the subject.

You grossly underestimate the kind of power Türkiye has. If Israel can't take down their thousands of aircraft (something like 700-800 actually in service) and their five thousand ground to air missiles, then Israel has lost the only limb that can harm them since Türkiye has Israel completely dominated in exploitable resources (such as oil, energy and minerals), naval and land might (since Türkiye can muster several times more fit for service then Israel has population, and thus in a defensive war, Türkiye has reserves). Considering that if the war actually did happen it would be started by Israel acting aggressively to Türkiye's naval escorts, then Israel would likely be stuck in a war it can't win, without it's biggest friends (Remember, Türkiye is a member of NATO).

This. Also, remember that Türkiye domestically produces their F-16s while Israel does not, and that they have far, far more resources available to them to keep this production going. Israel will not do anything, and in fact can not do anything about a Turkish patrol.

[Fellrike]

NATO members are obligated to assist Turkey if that country is attacked, however, in a hypothetical naval clash between Turkey and Israel, it's doubtful that NATO members will assist Turkey, in fact, the US will almost certainly side with Israel. Israel poses no threat to Turkey, and it'll be Turkish warships approaching Israel that spark the clash, so NATO won't feel sympathetic (especially Greece). Europe and the United States would be most likely to expect Erdogan to resolve the situation by preventing IHH from provoking Israel in this way. Humanitarian aid can be sent to Gaza overland, through Egypt, without the need to directly confront the Israelis. Refusal to take a non-confrontational approach will make Erdogan look like a grandstander and provocateur, causing an international crisis without need.
Also, I think Americans will question Turkey's need to involve itself in this matter at all, which has nothing to do with its national security. Many of us remember the Turkish troops who fought beside us with the UN contingent in the Korean War, and we know we owe a debt for this support, but I'll tell you frankly, my countrymen are mostly pro-Israeli in their sentiments, especially since 9/11; most Americans don't share Turkish concern for the plight of the Palestinians, assuming they're aware of the situation at all.
What support for the Palestinian cause there is in America exists predominately among American Muslims, as well as among blacks and Hispanics, some of whom identify with the Palestinians as an exploited and oppressed people, much like themselves, engaged in a struggle for justice.