Turkey Preparing for War with Israel

[Anemos Major]

Wow, that entire rant was all way too long to debunk, and so wholly biased in its wording it's just readily apparent that nothing will change your mind.

That's rich.

the hamas monster

I think destroying Hamas and retaking control of Gaza is the only way anyone in the neighborhood will be able to sleep sound.

Want the embargo lifted, Hamas has to go.

I've actually supported my arguments with evidence; your wild and wonderful assumptions are becoming rather tiresome. Please provide evidence concerning the bolded statements, because until I see it, they're as valid as me telling you that Israel was created by Nazis.

Your suggestion about the number of Arabs in the region to the original Zionist pioneers is quite correct, however, those are the Bedouin and Druze populations (Which I mentioned anyways, as well as mentioning their nomadic nature and lack of permanent settlements, did you read?), which are happy Israeli citizens and serve in the Army now. The unhappy Arabs are not in the least indigenous.

You even admit that there never was a 'palestine' or 'palestinians', the whole thing was invented by Arafat only a few decades ago, and then go on to claim they have some ancestral right to a country there.

You act like Israel kicked out those "refugees." We asked the Arabs living there to all stay with us and help us build a nation. (Note, lots did stay, they're Israeli citizens, they live really good lives and serve in the Knesset even) The treacherous 'refugee' people are the ones who left voluntarily at the behest of the Arab League to help clear the path for an invasion and provide local intelligence. These people accepted, clearly choosing a side. They left and went to camps in the countries that told them to leave. The Arab League lost. They're still in camps (Which look more like small cities now, they have duplexes and internet service and plenty of luxury cars somehow in their 'refugee camps'). These camps by the way, are not in Israel, but in Arab countries, it's the Arabs who asked them to come there and refuse to grant them citizenship, telling them 'The only way you get a passport is if all Jews die'. Arab Israelis live in these funny things called 'cities', you may have heard of them. PA Arabs also live in cities, though not as nice of cities, Israeli Arabs have it better. The only ones in camps with barbed wire are those who chose to 'flee to refuge' in the 'welcoming arms' of the (would be) conquering Arab nations. How's that our fault?
No Israeli Arab is "persecuted", that's insane.
Innocent civilians by the way, do not violate a military cordon, that makes them no longer innocent. Now they're stupid civilians in violation of an order punishable with lethal force. If I did that I'd be shot by whatever country I did it to, that's OK. Deal with it. US does the same.
And saying somehow the first intifada means that having the IDF occupy Gaza doesn't work, that would be a very narrow minded view of how the intifada started, who backed and instigated it, and of the non-existent difference between hamas and fatah outside of that hamas is much more strict upon its citizens, both are terrorist groups, and leaving fatah around is as much of a mistake as leaving hamas around now.

Do you know what's like smashing my head against a brick wall? Arguing with you. In your series of unsubstantiated claims and accusations, which is essentially the backbone, if not the entirety, of your case, you've wholly ignored the fact that I'm not calling for an end to the Israeli state (being unreasonably defensive, in fact), but that I'm wholly reasonably calling for an end to the occupation (the UN certainly agrees with me here) of Palestinian territory, you've claimed that all the native Arabs in the region are happy Israeli citizens, you've claimed that the concept of 'Palestine' was invented by Yasser Arafat despite me clearly stating that it's an Arab nationalist term that originates from the 1910s-1920s, that all the refugees from Palestine, from 1949 (before the Arab League existed) to now, have fled Palestine voluntarily as part of an Arab plot to destroy the Israeli State, that the Israelis have always done nothing but help the Palestinians and have attempted to create a state with them on equal terms, that refugees are actually all immoral traitors, that civilians getting shot is not the Israelis' fault in any way, that other nations also shoot civilians without second thoughts or asking questions, that Fatah and Hamas are the same, and that both have to be destroyed because both are terrorist groups.

Incredible.

[Izarius]

I liked your great post on Kemalism and anti-imperialism Kemaliste.

What is the general Kurdish opinion of Kemalism in Turkey?

[Estovakiva]

Soo the finish UN-keepers have had fun with the Isareli.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8eEH7oozxo&list=FLBU0PncqYx_sI5sjubX9SkQ&index=2

Ramming UN-Vehicles seems to be a task for the IDF.


<Shifty eyes>

I ponder what people wil reply too this.

[Keronians]

Soo the finish UN-keepers have had fun with the Isareli.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8eEH7oozxo&list=FLBU0PncqYx_sI5sjubX9SkQ&index=2

Ramming UN-Vehicles seems to be a task for the IDF.


<Shifty eyes>

I ponder what people wil reply too this.

LIES LIES ANTI-SEMITE NAZI HOLOCAUST 6 MILLION DEAD ANTI-ZIONIST FASCIST BASTARD.

We need more land.

[Anemos Major]

Well, you're exlaining very good. But I want to ask something, who are you to question my being Kemalist, I gave my life to principles of Ataturk, I was educated by his principles, his book ( Nutuk ) always stays near my bad and I've read it at least more than 10 times. I don't even want to mention that my grand grandmom (who still lives) lived in Ataturk's time and frequently talk about him to me. Now, I advice you to be more careful about your words like '' You can't be a Kemalist '' well you couldn't dare say this in front of me.

It's irrelevant. If you read it 10 times, and misunderstand it 10 times, you're still not doing it correctly. I'm not saying that 'you can't be a Kemalist'; rather, I'm saying that your exposition of ideas simply show that your ideology is not the same as, and indeed at odds with, Kemalism.

Kemalist revolution is a event that created a new, independent and free nation from ruin. Turkish nationalists under the commandership of great leader waved the rebellion flag with a great support from Turkish nation against invaders. Kemalism is the first bullet sticked in imperialist movements. And it doesn't really urge us to be a dog of the west. Ataturk pulled through the Turkish nation from the cruelty and hegemony of imperialism and capitalism.

Yes, Kemalism was very much aligned against imperialism. I'm not disputing that; certainly, one of the key tenets of Kemalism was to throw off international hegemony and to face up against it with a coherent Turkish identity (replacing the fallen Ottoman one). Nor am I saying that Kemalism urges you to be anybody's dog. But there're two problems with what I'm seeing here. Firstly, where exactly does Kemalism 'free' the Turkish nation from capitalism? If anything, the populism of Kemalistic ideals and indeed policies, as well as the gradual Westernisation and modernisation of Turkey that occurred during the period in which Ataturk was in power, were both in favour of capitalism. The problem here is that you're equating modern Western capitalist society to the early 20th century colonialism that Ataturk was facing and reviling, and that's a fundamental mistake. They're not the same things. Having your nation arbitrarily divided up and handed to other nations by Western powers through treaties signed in Paris is colonialist hegemony. Having US troops stationed in bases in Turkey with the consent of the Turkish government and, through election, the Turkish majority, is nothing near that.

Ataturk during his military life, considered that the Turkish nation and humanity suffered from the colonialist and imperialistic Europe, and defended that the Turkish nation shall be born as a sun in the civilization horizon in future and this will in service of humanity. And also, this civilization shall replace with the western imperialistic civilization as a result of this, the oppressed nations shall saved from the western imperialistic civilization. His struggle of imperialism became the sample for the oppressed nations.

Again, partially yes, partially no. What Ataturk was resisting was colonialism. He was certainly not against Western society; in fact, by introducing concepts like women's suffrage and what he perceived to be a 'modern society' along Western lines, Ataturk, in fact, embraced Western ideals. His struggle became an icon of that against imperialism, but more importantly, of the potential for nationhood following the fall of colonialism; however, the nation which he created was very much 'Western' in nature and composition.

Kemalism was founded as a '' anti-imperialist '' resistance at all. And western people like you are trying to take advtantage of its modernist principles. Yes, Ataturk wanted to bring western standards, but he didn't make Turkey servant of other nations. He created a self-sufficient nation, who produces its needs itself. Kemalist Turkey found the first war plane manufacture company and began to produce its planes itself until its closure when Kemalist power was fallen down by a western-puppet government in 1950.

In fact, this is entirely incorrect. If Turkey under Ataturk was a 'self sufficient nation' concerned with separating itself from the West, it would have gone into isolation and ceased trade. It did neither. Ataturk didn't want to be dominated by the West, but this didn't mean he wanted to oppose it. I can say this with confidence because it's a similar underlying ideology to that that drove the Meiji Restoration in Japan. What you're doing is making Kemalism far more extremist than it actually is.

Sorry, today Kemalists are anti-NATO, anti-USA and anti-EU because they're trying to rule Turkey as they want. Whoever you ask from Kemalist people, they will not give a different answer. Look at Kemalist pages in facebook if you want and you will see it. We revolutionists are the followers of great leader Ataturk and your adress is not to Kemalist patriots if you want to make a -easy to be controlled- Turkey which USA, NATO and EU do via conservative governments for 60 years since the fall of Kemalist power. Kemalist Turkey never involves in invasions of countries. Kemalist Turkey is never interested in internals of other nations. But today we've come to war line with Syria and Israel without any reason because of pro-american politics. After Turkey left Kemalism, it began to transform into the imperialist nations which it fought against in Independence War.

But are they trying to rule Turkey as they want, Kemaliste? Turkey isn't an 'easy to be controlled nation'; for example, Turkish border engagements with Kurds are not exactly popular in the West, but that doesn't mean said Western nations are suddenly forcing Turkey to stop. As it stands, Turkey has an incredibly independent foreign policy and nation; you're just making things seem far worse than they actually are. Turkey isn't close to war with Israel because of pro-American politics; that's a self-defeating comment. If anything, the stance taken by Turkey towards Israel is evidence of its independence.

Since you're a Kemalist, here's a question. One of the cornerstone's of Ataturk's beliefs was populism; that the people should have power, embodied in his introduction of universal suffrage without gender or class restrictions. If that's the case, then those with majority support should be the ones in power. Since the Kemalists are far from having the support of the Turkish majority through the very systems implemented by Ataturk, what gives them the right to decide that Turkey's government goes against Ataturk's will?

Freedom and independence are my personality. I am a man filled with the love of independence which is my nation's greatest and my ancestors' most precious legacy. This love of mine is known by those who are closely familiar with every branch of my family and my private and professional life from my childhood days till now. In my opinion, in order for honor, personality, pride and humanity to come into existence and survive in a nation, it certainly has to have its freedom and independence. I personally consider very important to these virtues I have mentioned. And in order to argue that I have these innate virtues, I consider it to be a prerequisite that my nation be endowed with the same virtues. I must remain as the son of an independent nation in order to survive. That’s why, to me, national independence is a matter of life or death. If the interests of my nation and homeland require it, I assess the relations of friendship and politics with every nation in humanity with great sincerity. However, I would be the inexorable enemy of any nation wanting to enslave my nation until I make them give up their desire.

And Turkey as it stands, with an independent foreign policy and political model, is independent. Nor is the West 'enslaving' Turkey; if Turkey didn't want a USAF base, or to be in NATO, after all, the government could simply pull out of both obligations. But as it stands, the government has been elected using the most Kemalist of principles, populism, and as such, your opposition to the current position of Turkey is anti-Kemalist, both in ideology and in practice.

[Empires Empire]

. But today we've come to war line with Syria and Israel without any reason because of pro-american politics. After Turkey left Kemalism, it began to transform into the imperialist nations which it fought against in Independence War.

I'll agree, the NATO bloc is pushing Turkey into this role it's taking in the Muslim world, and it's a bad thing for Turkey. Thankfully, Israelis are not easily hurt by a little name calling, we'll still be Turkey's friend, and we know Turkey will never really declare war on Israel for absolutely no reason. Syria has its own problems, I wouldn't worry about some retribution from them. Whatever the hell this campaign by NATO to cause instability in the mid-east is somehow meant to do, it's really insane and I wish they'd just go home and stop causing trouble. The people behind this whole mess funded and encouraged that flotilla that caused this incident specifically under a Turkish flag with a few of their citizens riled up and stuck on board specifically because they knew what would happen, and were already prepared to manipulate the media outlets in Turkey well before the incident even took place. They're trying to play us against each other. We've seen it before though, yawn. Not buying. We're not going to let them break our blockade OR force us into a war with friends.
Glad to see you admit there's absolutely no reason for hostilities with Israel. Or Syria for that matter. In my opinion, there's no justification for any of this mindless interventionism that's been going on since the western bloc first set its eyes on the black gold. All of the conflict there is caused by the money, politics, and regional arms races of foreign powers. Israel and Turkey both only stand to benefit in their lack of dependence on these powers by cooperating on a greater level.

[Fellrike]

I quoted nothing, I pointed you to a historical evaluation of that territory. Is it incorrect? Can you disprove it, or is the best you can do is to feebly try to ignore it?

The site cites some truths yes and excludes a lot in the process to spin it in a way that makes Israeli control of Gaza a bad thing. Gaza was an absolute nightmare to live in under Egypt's control, it got much safer under Israeli control, and then with the "disengagement" you types pushed, now the citizens there have to live in absolute fear of being branded traitor by hamas. Imagine you're a Palestinian trying to live your little life, etc.
Ya, Gaza is so much better without the IDF there keeping order. You live in reality, sure.

I can understand why Gazans must feel proud to see their ow flag flying overhead, instead of the blue Star of David, and to see Palestinian police patrolling the streets, rather than the IDF. But I imagine many wish they could have freedom and peace, as well as autonomy.
The best solution would probably be for Gaza to have new leadership, with assurances that the Strip will never again be used as a staging area for attacks against Israel, and a welcoming attitude towards development and tourism rather than hostility and instability. Its people would have more freedom, and a better quality of life, than they have under the stifling Hamas regime. Gaza could begin economic development, building beautiful seaside resorts to rival those of neighboring countries. Couples and families could swim together in the ocean, free from bullying beach patrols forcing women to swim in cumbersome and dangerous Mother Hubbards and keeping the sexes apart. Tourists could enjoy a drink while staying in local hotels. Investors could bring assets into the country, and locals could open businesses without fear of having their property destroyed in a retaliatory IDF strike or seized by an authoritarian and corrupt regime. Look at that water park some local entrepreneurs opened there. It was popular, and helped the local economy; Gazans enjoyed its pool and water slides on hot summer days, and it made money, until arsonists, perhaps offended by the sight of couples swimming together, burned it down one night. For the owners, it was a catastrophe. They took a chance on investing in Gaza, and instead of being welcomed, they were ruined and driven away. It's senseless. Who else will consider opening a business in Gaza, after this?
Gaza isn't like wealthy Saudi Arabia. It has no oil to rely on. It has no holy sites. Its economic viability depends on promoting tourism. However, it's very well suited to this. Gaza's beaches, clmate and interesting archaelogical sites have a lot to offer visitors. It could compete with Sharm el Sheikh or other nearby resorts easily, if it could be freed from its repressive rulers, make peace with Israel and create the stability that is a prerequisite for development. All that's needed is a little investment in infrastructure; for example, a new sewage treatment facility would be well worth the cost. Currently, raw waste flows directly into the sea, sickening swimmers. In this day and age, such negligence is inexcusable. And of course, the airport and port facilities would have to be upgraded, to accomodate airliners and cruise ships. None of this is impossible. It'll certainly require new leadership, though.

[Estovakiva]

Soo the finish UN-keepers have had fun with the Isareli.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8eEH7oozxo&list=FLBU0PncqYx_sI5sjubX9SkQ&index=2

Ramming UN-Vehicles seems to be a task for the IDF.


<Shifty eyes>

I ponder what people wil reply too this.

LIES LIES ANTI-SEMITE NAZI HOLOCAUST 6 MILLION DEAD ANTI-ZIONIST FASCIST BASTARD.

We need more land.

Ahh the classical argument and ansver.

[Anemos Major]

I'll agree, the NATO bloc is pushing Turkey into this role it's taking in the Muslim world, and it's a bad thing for Turkey. Thankfully, Israelis are not easily hurt by a little name calling, we'll still be Turkey's friend, and we know Turkey will never really declare war on Israel for absolutely no reason. Syria has its own problems, I wouldn't worry about some retribution from them. Whatever the hell this campaign by NATO to cause instability in the mid-east is somehow meant to do, it's really insane and I wish they'd just go home and stop causing trouble. The people behind this whole mess funded and encouraged that flotilla that caused this incident specifically under a Turkish flag with a few of their citizens riled up and stuck on board specifically because they knew what would happen, and were already prepared to manipulate the media outlets in Turkey well before the incident even took place. They're trying to play us against each other. We've seen it before though, yawn. Not buying. We're not going to let them break our blockade OR force us into a war with friends.
Glad to see you admit there's absolutely no reason for hostilities with Israel. Or Syria for that matter. In my opinion, there's no justification for any of this mindless interventionism that's been going on since the western bloc first set its eyes on the black gold. All of the conflict there is caused by the money, politics, and regional arms races of foreign powers. Israel and Turkey both only stand to benefit in their lack of dependence on these powers by cooperating on a greater level.

No, we all know that.

Let's not forget the fact that this entire diplomatic spat was caused because Israel boarded a civilian vessel using 'disproportionate force', even assuming that the occupation of Gaza is legal, and that these claims of a 'conspiracy' you're coming up with are outrageous. I mean, from a Kemalist perspective, Israel is a curse. It's a nation with Western support imposing an essentially colonial rule upon the Palestinian people (arbitrary hierarchy, disproportionate use of force, illegal occupation, etc, etc), preventing concerned Turkish nationals from providing basic aid to said occupied people as fellow humans.

[Empires Empire]

LIES LIES ANTI-SEMITE NAZI HOLOCAUST 6 MILLION DEAD ANTI-ZIONIST FASCIST BASTARD.

We need more land.

Ahh the classical argument and ansver.

Wow, like that's not racist. Actually our answer as Zionists is for you idiots to learn how to drive. Main Battle Tank has right of way. Get off the damned road. Why's everything gotta be political? You try blocking Israeli roads like that see what happens, you're gonna get rammed. It's how it's done. Do you guys just cry about EVERYTHING? What a bunch of emos.

[Hallistar]

Soo the finish UN-keepers have had fun with the Isareli.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8eEH7oozxo&list=FLBU0PncqYx_sI5sjubX9SkQ&index=2

Ramming UN-Vehicles seems to be a task for the IDF.


<Shifty eyes>

I ponder what people wil reply too this.

LIES LIES ANTI-SEMITE NAZI HOLOCAUST 6 MILLION DEAD ANTI-ZIONIST FASCIST BASTARD.

We need more land.

*Oh my god I can't breathe I have to sig this*

[Anemos Major]

Wow, like that's not racist. Actually our answer as Zionists is for you idiots to learn how to drive. Main Battle Tank has right of way. Get off the damned road. Why's everything gotta be political? You try blocking Israeli roads like that see what happens, you're gonna get rammed. It's how it's done. Do you guys just cry about EVERYTHING? What a bunch of emos.

In normal countries, main battle tanks don't ram vehicles because they have right of way.

We're not crying. We're simply saying that the video seems to show that the IDF, in places, seem incapable of acting in a rational and internationally acceptable fashion. Whether that means using WP rounds against civilians, or ramming UN peacekeepers, it certainly isn't a very bright side of a country you so ardently claim to be perfect.

[Southern Patriots]

Soo the finish UN-keepers have had fun with the Isareli.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8eEH7oozxo&list=FLBU0PncqYx_sI5sjubX9SkQ&index=2

Ramming UN-Vehicles seems to be a task for the IDF.


<Shifty eyes>

I ponder what people wil reply too this.

Maybe the Finns started it. You know how they are...

[Hallistar]

Wow, like that's not racist. Actually our answer as Zionists is for you idiots to learn how to drive. Main Battle Tank has right of way. Get off the damned road. Why's everything gotta be political? You try blocking Israeli roads like that see what happens, you're gonna get rammed. It's how it's done. Do you guys just cry about EVERYTHING? What a bunch of emos.

In normal countries, main battle tanks don't ram vehicles because they have right of way.

We're not crying. We're simply saying that the video seems to show that the IDF, in places, seem incapable of acting in a rational and internationally acceptable fashion. Whether that means using WP rounds against civilians, or ramming UN peacekeepers, it certainly isn't a very bright side of a country you so ardently claim to be perfect.

I do remember seeing this somewhere http://palestinechronicle.com/view_arti ... p?id=15009

[Anemos Major]

In normal countries, main battle tanks don't ram vehicles because they have right of way.

We're not crying. We're simply saying that the video seems to show that the IDF, in places, seem incapable of acting in a rational and internationally acceptable fashion. Whether that means using WP rounds against civilians, or ramming UN peacekeepers, it certainly isn't a very bright side of a country you so ardently claim to be perfect.

I do remember seeing this somewhere http://palestinechronicle.com/view_arti ... p?id=15009

That looks like a very biased source.

There's plenty of unbiased information, after all.

[Empires Empire]

No, we all know that.

Let's not forget the fact that this entire diplomatic spat was caused because Israel boarded a civilian vessel using 'disproportionate force', even assuming that the occupation of Gaza is legal, and that these claims of a 'conspiracy' you're coming up with are outrageous. I mean, from a Kemalist perspective, Israel is a curse. It's a nation with Western support imposing an essentially colonial rule upon the Palestinian people (arbitrary hierarchy, disproportionate use of force, illegal occupation, etc, etc), preventing concerned Turkish nationals from providing basic aid to said occupied people as fellow humans.

You've already admitted the very term 'palestinian' only came about in the 70s, and the concept of 'palestinian arab nationalism' came about in the 1920s out of egypt, led by the nazi backed muslim brotherhood and its leader hassan al-bana. Then you just continue to spout the same palestinian arab nationalist rhetoric you just admitted is totally made up. It's OK, we get it. We'll make a note of it to care that you hate us later, I promise. Totally not lying on that. Bored of you now. Broken record, repeating the same stuff over and over even though its totally false.

[Hallistar]

I do remember seeing this somewhere http://palestinechronicle.com/view_arti ... p?id=15009

That looks like a very biased source.

It was taken from Ha'retz

[Empires Empire]

In normal countries, main battle tanks don't ram vehicles because they have right of way.

We're not crying.

Yes you are. You're being an emo, over a traffic collision. Oh wow he got a bent fender, let's all cry about it and scream ISRAEL IS EVIL! You guys really need a hobby. Go, outside, srsly.

[Fellrike]

Why are there still references to "occupied" Palestinian territories? The Gaza Strip and the West Bank are entirely free from Israeli occupation, and have been for some time. There is no "occupation." There is a naval cordon, but that's a different thing altogether, and has been recognized as lawful by the UN.
Also, why the insistence on sneaking aid through to Gaza, without allowing an Israeli inspection? Why can't humanitarian aid be sent through the land border, and checked for prohibited items? Or, if submitting to Israeli scrutiny rankles IHH pride, why can't an aid flotilla allow inspection by the navy of some third country, chosen for its impartiality, and agreeable to both sides? There has to be some kind of solution - anything is better than a new war in the Med.
A flotilla acompanied by Turkish (and perhaps even Iranian Pasdaran) warships is bound to provoke Israel.

[Alyakia]

In normal countries, main battle tanks don't ram vehicles because they have right of way.

We're not crying.

Yes you are. You're being an emo, over a traffic collision. Oh wow he got a bent fender, let's all cry about it and scream ISRAEL IS EVIL! You guys really need a hobby. Go, outside, srsly.

It's a bit late to go outside, I'll assume that's the case for you too. While we're in, could you be a dear and:

1) Prove Southern Patriot is biased against Jews.
2) Talk about how half of this thead has been about Armenia and the Kurds.
3) Oh just respond to the various other posts in general really.

[Anemos Major]

You've already admitted the very term 'palestinian' only came about in the 70s, and the concept of 'palestinian arab nationalism' came about in the 1920s out of egypt, led by the nazi backed muslim brotherhood and its leader hassan al-bana. Then you just continue to spout the same palestinian arab nationalist rhetoric you just admitted is totally made up. It's OK, we get it. We'll make a note of it to care that you hate us later, I promise. Totally not lying on that. Bored of you now. Broken record, repeating the same stuff over and over even though its totally false.

No, I didn't. Please stop putting words in my mouth; I've told you that the term 'Palestinian' came about in the 1920s within the region itself as a result of local Arab nationalism. The Muslim Brotherhood, aside from being a rather small part of the bigger picture that is Arab nationalism, actually only turned to the Nazis for aid because they perceived the British to be their enemies, in a similar fashion to the Irgun.

And no, 'Palestinian Arab Nationalist Rhetoric' (?) is not 'totally made up', and I don't see me 'admitting' anything. Do Israelis generally argue both sides for other people? The Palestinian cause is as valid as Zionism (which is a product of the late 1800s in its existing iteration, may I remind you), except for the fact that they actually have a right to what they're claiming, entrenched in UN resolutions and international law.

You're putting words in my mouth, making the most ridiculous claims, then going around sticking your fingers in your ears when you realise that you're sorely outclassed. I hope Israeli foreign policy isn't run by people like you, because that would truly be a disaster.

[Empires Empire]

1) Prove Southern Patriot is biased against Jews.
2) Talk about how half of this thead has been about Armenia and the Kurds.
3) Oh just respond to the various other posts in general really.

1: If you're biased against the Jewish state, which is made up of Jews, you're therefore biased against Jews. Constantly taking any excuse to condemn something, is called bias.
2: Why does that have anything to do with me? Just because you all are going on strange tirades about things that are totally irrelevant to Israeli Turkish relations is not my fault. There's biased nonsense in all groups.
3: I'm just responding to the fun ones.

[Alyakia]

Why are there still references to "occupied" Palestinian territories? The Gaza Strip and the West Bank are entirely free from Israeli occupation, and have been for some time. There is no "occupation." There is a naval cordon, but that's a different thing altogether, and has been recognized as lawful by the UN.
Also, why the insistence on sneaking aid through to Gaza, without allowing an Israeli inspection? Why can't humanitarian aid be sent through the land border, and checked for prohibited items? Or, if submitting to Israeli scrutiny rankles IHH pride, why can't an aid flotilla allow inspection by the navy of some third country, chosen for its impartiality, and agreeable to both sides? There has to be some kind of solution - anything is better than a new war in the Med.
A flotilla acompanied by Turkish (and perhaps even Iranian Pasdaran) warships is bound to provoke Israel.

I should probably talk about the chocolate again but I'm completely out of any drive at this point.

[Anemos Major]

Why are there still references to "occupied" Palestinian territories? The Gaza Strip and the West Bank are entirely free from Israeli occupation, and have been for some time. There is no "occupation." There is a naval cordon, but that's a different thing altogether, and has been recognized as lawful by the UN.
Also, why the insistence on sneaking aid through to Gaza, without allowing an Israeli inspection? Why can't humanitarian aid be sent through the land border, and checked for prohibited items? Or, if submitting to Israeli scrutiny rankles IHH pride, why can't an aid flotilla allow inspection by the navy of some third country, chosen for its impartiality, and agreeable to both sides? There has to be some kind of solution - anything is better than a new war in the Med.
A flotilla acompanied by Turkish (and perhaps even Iranian Pasdaran) warships is bound to provoke Israel.

Because hemming them in is as good as occupying the place, Fellrike.

And humanitarian aid can be brought in. But shouldn't the Israelis just remove weapons if they're there and let everything else through? What gives them the right to choose if Palestinians get building materials from Egypt or not?

[Hallistar]

1) Prove Southern Patriot is biased against Jews.
2) Talk about how half of this thead has been about Armenia and the Kurds.
3) Oh just respond to the various other posts in general really.

1: If you're biased against the Jewish state, which is made up of Jews, you're therefore biased against Jews. Constantly taking any excuse to condemn something, is called bias.
2: Why does that have anything to do with me? Just because you all are going on strange tirades about things that are totally irrelevant to Israeli Turkish relations is not my fault. There's biased nonsense in all groups.
3: I'm just responding to the fun ones.

So one nation speaks for every single jew, even the ones that are anti-israel? What if someone was biased against Saudi Arabia, would it make them biased against all muslims?