Would you kill kill an intruder?

[Seperates]

Yeah, and I can see that if it's the middle of the night, you don't know their intentions, you don't know what they're armed with, it's dark, there's several, ect. Circumstances like that.

True. What I do know is that they broke into my home, and they appear to be stealing. They're criminals. It would be naive and stupid to assume they they aren't armed. I'm dealing with an armed intruder. I'm going to blow his fucking head off.

And you would be tried and convicted in civil court. NEXT!

[Separatist Peoples]

I beg to differ. The property I own is part of what makes me happy. I'm defending it.

And another right is the right to a fair trial by peers, which you are overrulling for the sake of your "happiness".

Except we have the right to protect ourselves. We don't know what the criminals are thinking, we don't know if they are armed and trying to trick us, or just drunk and in the wrong house. How do you be sure? Shoot em, and let God sort em out. That way our property is protected, our lives are protected, and the criminal is unable to do any damage to me or my family. I honestly don't get whats so hard to grasp about the concept.

[Kreanoltha]

I beg to differ. The property I own is part of what makes me happy. I'm defending it.

And another right is the right to a fair trial by peers, which you are overrulling for the sake of your "happiness".

Yes. If they survive to get to trial they are entitled to it. They just shouldn't count on me to give it to them.

[Seperates]

I'm joking. They were going to make it "life, liberty, and property" but they didn't want the poor to rise up in arms because they didn't have property. You don't have a right to property. You have the right to protect what property you have, within civil and ethical limits.

And no, owning property is not an extension of Happiness. And, thank Cthulu, those aren't the only rights we have.

Good, so you agree that it is legal to shoot someone who is trespassing within your home and threatening your life with a weapon.

Yes. As I said before, "Eye for an Eye"

[Hossaim]

If the situation warrants a shooting, it warrants a fatal shooting.

If the situation warrants driving, it warrants deadly driving!

If the situation warrants food, it warrants poisoned food!

If the situation warrants poor comparisons, it warrants comparisons bad enough to hurt!

reading through the thread i see this. my reaction:



siging.

[Ifreann]

I dunno about you guys, but I view shooting someone as considerably worse than stealing. Shooting someone for stealing is like shooting someone for slapping you.

Shooting in defense of property is the same as shooting someone trying to kill, rape, ect.

You either really love your stuff or don't give a shit about rape and murder.

[Lessnt]

What do you think soldiers do?

Soldiers kill for their country, Mercenaries kill for money

Countries hire mercs.
Soldiers often become soldiers for money.
Soldiers protect the wealth of a country.
Which includes killing people although they may use other means it still stands as an acceptable action.

[Godular]

If I was trying to rob someone, chances are I wouldn't be going in wanting to kill. After all, that severely increases the severity of the crime. It's likely that most cases where it happens involve the assailant panicking a bit and making the situation a lot worse than intended. Furthermore, if I was threatened with a gun and told to leave, I would. I value my own life. I doubt I would try to regroup and go back either, doubtless the would-be victim is calling the police. Even if I did sneak up on him, that wouldn't leave me much of an opportunity to do anything but get get arrested. I'd probably take the opportunity to get as much of a head-start as possible to get away.

If you're in the house, you have already committed a crime. Therefore it would behoove the person with the gun to make sure that you do NOT leave. PREFERABLY by having you throw whatever weapon to the side and lie down on the floor until the police arrive. If ya run, hope yer good with driving on two flats.

'course, if ya don't have the car/van/etc parked right outside, and just run off climbing over fences and stuff, well, enjoy the adrenaline rush. The folks in my neighborhood like raising pitbulls. Apparently as guard dogs, for all the barking and snarling they do. I won't shoot you, though. You cease to be a threat the moment you're running away.

[Separatist Peoples]

Shooting in defense of property is the same as shooting someone trying to kill, rape, ect.

You either really love your stuff or don't give a shit about rape and murder.

Is it so bad to hold my property to a higher point of value then I hold the lives of those who would hurt me and steal my property? That seems, to me, acceptable.

[The Parkus Empire]

Yeah, and I can see that if it's the middle of the night, you don't know their intentions, you don't know what they're armed with, it's dark, there's several, ect. Circumstances like that.

True. What I do know is that they broke into my home, and they appear to be stealing. They're criminals. It would be naive and stupid to assume they they aren't armed. I'm dealing with an armed intruder. I'm going to blow his fucking head off.

I wouldn't, not unless there were multiple. I'd tell the guy to put his hands up, but I can see how you feel. However, the OP made it clear that the intruder is armed with a knife and you're armed with a gun, so the whole "he's armed!" argument is kinda worthless, since his armament isn't effective, and you don't even know if he's carrying that knife to use on people.

[Kreanoltha]

True. What I do know is that they broke into my home, and they appear to be stealing. They're criminals. It would be naive and stupid to assume they they aren't armed. I'm dealing with an armed intruder. I'm going to blow his fucking head off.

And you would be tried and convicted in civil court. NEXT!

Tried and convicted for what? It's legal in most states to shoot in defense of home, property, and life.

[Seperates]

And another right is the right to a fair trial by peers, which you are overrulling for the sake of your "happiness".

Except we have the right to protect ourselves. We don't know what the criminals are thinking, we don't know if they are armed and trying to trick us, or just drunk and in the wrong house. How do you be sure? Shoot em, and let God sort em out. That way our property is protected, our lives are protected, and the criminal is unable to do any damage to me or my family. I honestly don't get whats so hard to grasp about the concept.

One man is dead and our constitution is violated when that probebly been avoided with the same good outcome. I honestly don't get what's so hard to grasp about the concept.

Hey about your right to bear arms? That's the right to bear a barrel loading musket, not a machine gun.

[Die Argentinische Reich]

Except we have the right to protect ourselves. We don't know what the criminals are thinking, we don't know if they are armed and trying to trick us, or just drunk and in the wrong house. How do you be sure? Shoot em, and let God sort em out. That way our property is protected, our lives are protected, and the criminal is unable to do any damage to me or my family. I honestly don't get whats so hard to grasp about the concept.

One man is dead and our constitution is violated when that probebly been avoided with the same good outcome. I honestly don't get what's so hard to grasp about the concept.

Hey about your right to bear arms? That's the right to bear a barrel loading musket, not a machine gun.

WAAAAAHHH! I want a nuke!!!

[Separatist Peoples]

True. What I do know is that they broke into my home, and they appear to be stealing. They're criminals. It would be naive and stupid to assume they they aren't armed. I'm dealing with an armed intruder. I'm going to blow his fucking head off.

I wouldn't, not unless there were multiple. I'd tell the guy to put his hands up, but I can see how you feel. However, the OP made it clear that the intruder is armed with a knife and you're armed with a gun, so the whole "he's armed!" argument is kinda worthless, since his armament isn't effective, and you don't even know if he's carrying that knife to use on people.

Why else carry that knife in what he is doing if not to defend himself? And you underestimate the lethality of a knife. I know several individuals that could come out on top of that particular fight when armed with only a knife.

[The Parkus Empire]

That's great. That makes it justifiable to kill for money, then.

What do you think soldiers do?

Depends on the solider. Most do quite a bit besides killing, and when killing is to be done, the paycheck is just about the last thing on anyone's mind.

[Seperates]

And another right is the right to a fair trial by peers, which you are overrulling for the sake of your "happiness".

Yes. If they survive to get to trial they are entitled to it. They just shouldn't count on me to give it to them.

And then you shouldn't count on your right to shoot people on your property.

[Phonencia]

Castle laws have been in many states for years now, as we all know. Also the general answer you will get from cops about if you shuld shoot to kill is "kill them, they cant sue if they are dead"

So, here is the scenario. You live in a state where it is legal to shoot and or kill a tresspasser. One day a robber breaks into your house and starts stripping it to the walls. You notice the robber also has a large knife.

Assuming the robber doesnt want to kill you unless he knows he has been caught

You have a gun. Assuming the robber doesnt want to kill you unless he knows he has been caught, do you shoot to kill, shoot to wound, or let him strip your house to the walls?



Personally, id probably shoot to kill. He is armed and poses a threat. he is also trying to steal everything ive ever owned for the express purpose of getting money.

Im so glad you asked. Self Defense is kind of a big thing in my family, which is one of the reasons I own a Bulgarian AK-74 and took extra time to learn gunfighting tactics using the AK system (thanks Suarez International!) now then, in the above described situation I've had a plan laid out for ages.
see, I'm just 14, I have three younger siblings, two of which are adopted distant relatives and are just babies still. My father is a retired KPD Patrolman, my brother also used to be a CPD Patrolman but is currently a Nurse. He too owns a Kalashnikov and enjoys Suarez International's AK Rifle Gunfighting tactics (he's way better than me, especially at clearing houses)
so, let's begin our little simulation.

I hear a ruckus downstairs (my bedroom is in our cabin's loft) and for whatever reason Dad and my brother are not present (they both sleep downstairs, they'd almost definately hear the robbery)
so, I would peek downstairs to see the intruder and begin my preparations for defending the home. I'd prolly pull on my pants and shirt first because I don't wanna fight in my boxers. then, I'd slide my gun case out from under my bed, retrieve my Kalashnikov which I have affectionately named "Peggy" and retrieve the loaded magazine I keep on my chest of drawers. I'd quickly rock in the magazines and slip on my shoes in case I have to pursue the intruder. Then, I go to the banister and watch the man burglarizing my property for a moment to be sure he is in fact an intruder. Then I push off the safety (it's a large lever, it makes a loud click) getting his attention. I then rack the weapon (which makes one of the most intimidating sounds imaginable) and shout for the man to put his hands in the air and not to move.


If he complies
I instruct him to drop the knife and lay down on the floor with his hands on his head while I call the police.
I slowly make my way down the steps, keeping the rifle trained on him the entire time, my finger off the trigger. As I walk over to him, I slide the knife farther away with my foot and order him to remain still while I call for help.
I will slowly move into my brother's bedroom and retrieve his handcuffs. Walking back to the man, I order him not to move once again and instruct him to place his hands behind his back while I handcuff him. I then shout for everyone to wake up (my mom and siblings)
and turn on the lights, never leaving the man's side.
Satisfied that he won't put up a fight, I reengage the safety but keep the rifle in hand.
surveying the area for signs of any accomplices I ask the man if he's alone, assuming he replies to the positive, I then call my OTHER brother who lives down the road from us (he's a Suarez International Instructor and CPD SWAT Sniper) and inform him of the situation.
he will of course come storming down the road in either his truck or Patrol Car, AK in hand (of course he may be at work so his time of arrival is hard to estimate)
I also call dad and my brother who lives at home with us but is for some reason gone with my dad in the middle of the night. once mom wakes up, I ask her to call the sheriff to come arrest the man and if she woke up fast enough I'd have her place the other calls for me as well.
finally, the police arrive, arrest the man and take him away. and I become a local hero.
yay me.

[Lessnt]

True. What I do know is that they broke into my home, and they appear to be stealing. They're criminals. It would be naive and stupid to assume they they aren't armed. I'm dealing with an armed intruder. I'm going to blow his fucking head off.

I wouldn't, not unless there were multiple. I'd tell the guy to put his hands up, but I can see how you feel. However, the OP made it clear that the intruder is armed with a knife and you're armed with a gun, so the whole "he's armed!" argument is kinda worthless, since his armament isn't effective, and you don't even know if he's carrying that knife to use on people.

You never know if he may have another hidden weapon.

[Separatist Peoples]

Yes. If they survive to get to trial they are entitled to it. They just shouldn't count on me to give it to them.

And then you shouldn't count on your right to shoot people on your property.

How is that a logical rebuttal?

[Phonencia]

however if the intruder attacked me or one of my family members I can safely say I'd double tap him in the chest...

[The Parkus Empire]

I wouldn't, not unless there were multiple. I'd tell the guy to put his hands up, but I can see how you feel. However, the OP made it clear that the intruder is armed with a knife and you're armed with a gun, so the whole "he's armed!" argument is kinda worthless, since his armament isn't effective, and you don't even know if he's carrying that knife to use on people.

Why else carry that knife in what he is doing if not to defend himself? And you underestimate the lethality of a knife. I know several individuals that could come out on top of that particular fight when armed with only a knife.

I carry a knife wherever I go. If I needed to open and chisel shit all the time, such as a burglar does, then I'd have even more cause to carry one.

Either way, even if the knife is there for defense, you have no cause to shoot him, since he wasn't intending to murder you or anything, but rather only had a knife to combat lethal efforts made against him.

[Godular]

however if the intruder attacked me or one of my family members I can safely say I'd double tap him in the chest...

Only a double tap? Dude might be high on PCP or some shit. Hence the rule of 'Shoot to Stop'. Shoot him until he stops coming towards you. If that means he's dead, oh well.

[The Parkus Empire]

I wouldn't, not unless there were multiple. I'd tell the guy to put his hands up, but I can see how you feel. However, the OP made it clear that the intruder is armed with a knife and you're armed with a gun, so the whole "he's armed!" argument is kinda worthless, since his armament isn't effective, and you don't even know if he's carrying that knife to use on people.

You never know if he may have another hidden weapon.

Why would he use it?

[Seperates]

And then you shouldn't count on your right to shoot people on your property.

How is that a logical rebuttal?

He says that they aren't entitled to the right of a fair trial. I say he doesn't have the right to shoot someone on his property, for any reason. Both are nonsensical.

[Furthermore]

Kill or wound doesn't enter into the mental process. He's inside taking all my things. He has a knife, which I must assume he's ready to use if he notices me.

So I'd shoot him. I'd aim for the torso, as that's the easiest area to hit. Whether he dies or not depends entirely on his luck.

Exactly.

Basically.