United Democratic Nations

by **Hippostania** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:46 am

After reading these two article, I began thinking. Would it be possible to reform the UN into ''UDN'', or United Democratic Nations, or alternatively, make all democratic nations leave the UN and join the UDN instead? The member state map of the UDN would probably look like this.
Basically, the point is that UN is extremely inefficient because about half of the its member states are dictatorships. They do not respect Western values such as democracy, freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. They might be semi-democratic oligarchies like Russia, pseudo-Communist authoritarian dictatorships like China or just literally insane hellholes like North Korea. It is incredibly difficult to make any decisions when half of the world's nation don't give a damn about things that matter to an average Westerner.

So, what do you think? Should undemocratic nations be kicked out of the UN? What is your opinion on this hypothetical ''UDN''?

by **Yingtong Yiddle I Po** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:49 am

Just disband the UN completely and leave each other alone.

by **Dilange** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:52 am

Hippostania wrote:After reading these two article, I began thinking. Would it be possible to reform the UN into ''UDN'', or United Democratic Nations, or alternatively, make all democratic nations leave the UN and join the UDN instead? The member state map of the UDN would probably look like this.
Basically, the point is that UN is extremely inefficient because about half of the its member states are dictatorships. They do not respect Western values such as democracy, freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. They might be semi-democratic oligarchies like Russia, pseudo-Communist authoritarian dictatorships like China or just literally insane hellholes like North Korea. It is incredibly difficult to make any decisions when half of the world's nation don't give a damn about things that matter to an average Westerner.

So, what do you think? Should undemocratic nations be kicked out of the UN? What is your opinion on this hypothetical ''UDN''?

No and UDN sounds like another UN with a biased.

by **Augustus Este** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:56 am

The UN really needs reform, personally I support changing the GA into an assembly with elected representatives, and either changing the nations with permanent security council membership or completely nerfing their Veto power.

None of that will happen of course, but one can always dream...

by **Lauralestria** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:57 am

I'm all for the idea of a UDN
although I'd include singapore, russia, indonesia, malasia, thailand, and the phillipenes...

by **Alyakia** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:59 am

You really seem to like talking about Western things and Westerners. Are you sure you aren't looking for a Union of Western Values?

by **Sremski okrug** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:04 am

Democracy is not needed for a stable society, you can have a benevolent dictatorship like Yugoslavia.

by **Yingtong Yiddle I Po** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:07 am

Sremski okrug wrote:Democracy is not needed for a stable society, you can have a benevolent dictatorship like Yugoslavia.

And we all know how well that turned out...

by **Alyakia** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:08 am

Sremski okrug wrote:Democracy is not needed for a stable society, you can have a benevolent dictatorship like Yugoslavia.

I'm no expert on Slavic history, but, uh,..

by **Sremski okrug** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:10 am

Yingtong Yiddle I Po wrote:
Sremski okrug wrote:Democracy is not needed for a stable society, you can have a benevolent dictatorship like Yugoslavia.

And we all know how well that turned out...

Fine. Yugoslavia was one of the most prosperous communist countries in the world and had good relations with the International Press when Tito was alive.

Simple minded nationalists and Western betrayal destroyed Yugoslavia not a benevolent dictator.

by **Yingtong Yiddle I Po** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:12 am

Sremski okrug wrote:Fine. Yugoslavia was one of the most prosperous communist countries in the world

Not exactly a resounding compliment...

Sremski okrug wrote:and had good relations with the International Press when Tito was alive.

Not really a benchmark of how successful a country is, I find.

Sremski okrug wrote:Simple minded nationalists and Western betrayal destroyed Yugoslavia not a benevolent dictator.

The fact that Tito ruled Yugoslavia as he did meant it was inevitable that without a powerful, charismatic leader, Yugoslavia would split along ethnic and religious lines.

by **The House of Petain** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:25 am

I always saw the UN not as a 'world government' but as a world forum. So I think the reason why it is so ineffective is because it's trying to be more than that. You can't impose democracy on nations, nor can you exclude those that aren't democratic -that's not the world unfortunately.

by **Gdstark** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:26 am

I've given this idea a LOT of thought. I even grabbed the URL (it was available) and create a prototype via the website. Check it out...

http://www.UnitedDemocraticNations.org

I'm open to feedback...

gary

by **Dilange** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:28 am

Gdstark wrote:I've given this idea a LOT of thought. I even grabbed the URL (it was available) and create a prototype via the website. Check it out...

http://www.UnitedDemocraticNations.org

I'm open to feedback...

gary

Stupid idea.

by **Gdstark** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:31 am

Dilange wrote:
Gdstark wrote:I've given this idea a LOT of thought. I even grabbed the URL (it was available) and create a prototype via the website. Check it out...

http://www.UnitedDemocraticNations.org

I'm open to feedback...

gary

Stupid idea.

I was actually looking for intelligent feedback.

gary

by **Hippostania** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:33 am

Gdstark wrote:I've given this idea a LOT of thought. I even grabbed the URL (it was available) and create a prototype via the website. Check it out...

http://www.UnitedDemocraticNations.org

I'm open to feedback...

gary

That is actually pretty nice! :hug:

by **Ifreann** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:35 am

Would the Democratic People's Republic of Korea be included?

by **Dilange** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:35 am

Gdstark wrote:
Dilange wrote:

Stupid idea.

I was actually looking for intelligent feedback.

gary

K intelligence.

How do you think this will work? We tried the LEague of Nations which failed....United Nations which failed...

So you want to create an international organization that is only made up of democratic countries? Great pipe dream. What about the totalitarianistic governments? Are they just going to sit back and be left out of an international community? No.

Why do you think this is a good idea?

by **The House of Petain** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:38 am

Dilange wrote:
Gdstark wrote:
I was actually looking for intelligent feedback.

gary

K intelligence.

How do you think this will work? We tried the LEague of Nations which failed....United Nations which failed...

So you want to create an international organization that is only made up of democratic countries? Great pipe dream. What about the totalitarianistic governments? Are they just going to sit back and be left out of an international community? No.

Why do you think this is a good idea?

It's a nice idea, it's just not a practical one. If you exclude nations that aren't democratic, it won't be a very effective organization or will turn into a NATO like body where one or two nations dominate the rest.

by **Hippostania** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:38 am

Dilange wrote:
Gdstark wrote:
I was actually looking for intelligent feedback.

gary

K intelligence.

How do you think this will work? We tried the LEague of Nations which failed....United Nations which failed...

So you want to create an international organization that is only made up of democratic countries? Great pipe dream. What about the totalitarianistic governments? Are they just going to sit back and be left out of an international community? No.

Why do you think this is a good idea?

Who cares about totalitarian goverments? They don't even represent their people. We can leave them in their own mess and let them cry how ''Western imperialists'' opress them.

by **Ifreann** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:39 am

Gdstark wrote:I've given this idea a LOT of thought. I even grabbed the URL (it was available) and create a prototype via the website. Check it out...

http://www.UnitedDemocraticNations.org

I'm open to feedback...

gary

Are you the democratically elected representative of an actual, real world, nation? No? Purpose defeated.

by **Sremski okrug** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:40 am

Yingtong Yiddle I Po wrote:
Sremski okrug wrote:Fine. Yugoslavia was one of the most prosperous communist countries in the world

Not exactly a resounding compliment...

Sremski okrug wrote:and had good relations with the International Press when Tito was alive.

Not really a benchmark of how successful a country is, I find.

Sremski okrug wrote:Simple minded nationalists and Western betrayal destroyed Yugoslavia not a benevolent dictator.

The fact that Tito ruled Yugoslavia as he did meant it was inevitable that without a powerful, charismatic leader, Yugoslavia would split along ethnic and religious lines.

It is a compliment, the people of Yugoslavia lived within their means and had a good quality of life. Relative freedom of the press is also important in a society.

Once a benevolent dictator dies he is replaced by another, sadly Yugoslavia did not have a good enough system in place after Tito's death so fell to nationalist traitors and Western propaganda.

UDM is a bad idea.

by **The House of Petain** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:41 am

Hippostania wrote:
Dilange wrote:
K intelligence.

How do you think this will work? We tried the LEague of Nations which failed....United Nations which failed...

So you want to create an international organization that is only made up of democratic countries? Great pipe dream. What about the totalitarianistic governments? Are they just going to sit back and be left out of an international community? No.

Why do you think this is a good idea?

Who cares about totalitarian goverments? They don't even represent their people. We can leave them in their own mess and let them cry how ''Western imperialists'' opress them.

Because world peace not only requires freedom loving nations, but totalitarian ones which present the threat. The problem is they won't be left to their own, and without dialogue, you just took the world a step backwards.

by **Dilange** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:42 am

Hippostania wrote:
Dilange wrote:
K intelligence.

How do you think this will work? We tried the LEague of Nations which failed....United Nations which failed...

So you want to create an international organization that is only made up of democratic countries? Great pipe dream. What about the totalitarianistic governments? Are they just going to sit back and be left out of an international community? No.

Why do you think this is a good idea?

Who cares about totalitarian goverments? They don't even represent their people. We can leave them in their own mess and let them cry how ''Western imperialists'' opress them.

Ya so dont try to help just say "fuck em"......that is a very realistic and yet plausable view of world politics (obvious sarcasm).

by **Gdstark** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:42 am

Dilange wrote:
Gdstark wrote:
I was actually looking for intelligent feedback.

gary

K intelligence.

How do you think this will work? We tried the LEague of Nations which failed....United Nations which failed...

So you want to create an international organization that is only made up of democratic countries? Great pipe dream. What about the totalitarianistic governments? Are they just going to sit back and be left out of an international community? No.

Why do you think this is a good idea?

Totalitarianistic government would be excluded since they presumably would fail the meet the criteria for democratic governance. Are they going to just sit back? Hard to say what dictators would do, but clearly pretending that they represent people is undemocratic.

gary