The death penalty

[Delanshar]

It's unsustainable for the reason you mentioned yourself: hardworking Germans and others have to prop up horrible economies with inefficient work-forces (Greece for example).

In any case, this is for another thread. My point is simply that their economic success has off-setted any rise in crime due to the revoking of the death penalty. But this is short term, and will end when their economic shield degenerates.

No it doesn't. Economic success has little or nothing to do with the rate of murder, it affects the rate of robbery and stealing shit.

And I'm pretty sure killing someone for stealing stuff is a tad extreme.

And besides, it is clear that European society is slowly unraveling. As we have seen with the riots in England/Greece/Spain/ France/ Pretty much everywhere else, economic unsustainability (hope I spelled that right) coupled with rampant immigration is beginning to take it's toll on the so-called utopian European model.

Riots everywhere? You mean, the ones that haven't been that widespread (country wise) and have been unreleated to each other? And please, stop with all this shit about society unravelling and immigration. Thats definatly an arguement for another thread.

It's a well known fact that economic downturns result in large spikes of crime...
And the riots don't have to be related to each other. Simply the fact that there are large riots shows there is a serious problem, as it shows people aren't afraid of the law.

[Horsefish]

It's a well known fact that economic downturns result in large spikes of crime...
And the riots don't have to be related to each other. Simply the fact that there are large riots shows there is a serious problem, as it shows people aren't afraid of the law.

Yes it does, genrally mugging, robbery etc. Not murder (I suppose those could lead to a small increase but not a massive one)
Well the fact most of the riots resulted from protests against cuts to public programmes or massive austerity mesures and are limited to those countries with severe money problems (apart form Britain, thats slightly diffrent) doesn't show much. These protests happened in America not too long ago with that union fiasco. Riots without reason=problem. Riots evolving from a protest=normal.

[Geniasis]

Certainly that could be the case. It does not, however, mean that the words "vengeance" and "revenge" aren't the same exact thing.

Look em up
they ARE different
I believe i listed the differences earlier... O.o

I looked up the philosophical concepts and the dictionary definitions. They are not different, except that vengeance is often used to refer to exceptionally violent revenge. The differences you listed are differences you have ascribed yourself.

[Mosasauria]

I am vehemently against it.

[The Parkus Empire]

I am fermently against it.

That sounds rather fun.

[Gernonai]

If a person commits a murder, they then forfeit their right to live IMO, any and all murderers should be given the death penalty simply because they are a danger to society and perhaps the state as well.

[Mosasauria]

I am fermently against it.

That sounds rather fun.

Excuse me and my terrible grammar.

[Furious Grandmothers]

If a person commits a murder, they then forfeit their right to live IMO, any and all murderers should be given the death penalty simply because they are a danger to society and perhaps the state as well.

Rights to live?? According to who/what?

[Keronians]

If a person commits a murder, they then forfeit their right to live IMO, any and all murderers should be given the death penalty simply because they are a danger to society and perhaps the state as well.

Rights to live?? According to who/what?

In my case, the Spanish Constitution, the European Convention on Human Rights, the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

[Sparexilia]

i am against it...cause if you get the death penalty, wouldn't getting a life sentence be the same? in a life sentence you stay alive long...though...

[Delanshar]

Rights to live?? According to who/what?

In my case, the Spanish Constitution, the European Convention on Human Rights, the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

All of which (with the exception of the first) were written by a bunch of liberal bureaucrats whom then attempted to impose them on sovereign states.

[Alyakia]

If a person commits a murder, they then forfeit their right to live IMO, any and all murderers should be given the death penalty simply because they are a danger to society and perhaps the state as well.

Rights to live?? According to who/what?

Is this one of those edgy "YOUR RIGHTS ARE MADE UP WELCOME TO THE REEL WURLD!!!" posts?

[Alyakia]

In my case, the Spanish Constitution, the European Convention on Human Rights, the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

All of which (with the exception of the first) were written by a bunch of liberal bureaucrats whom then attempted to impose them on sovereign states.

Oh cry me a river.

[Paragade]

A life in prison is more daunting then death and the death penalty has been proven to be costly along with the 3 strikes law and mandatory minimum sentences for drug charges.

[Furious Grandmothers]

Rights to live?? According to who/what?

Is this one of those edgy "YOUR RIGHTS ARE MADE UP WELCOME TO THE REEL WURLD!!!" posts?

Close enough. Not "your rights" but just, "rights". Also, I'm far from sure that this is the real world so I won't place a wager on it.

[Grave_n_idle]

What do you think of it? Are you for it or against it? I am against it because I feel that the idea of bringing justice by doing the exact thing a murderer did is counter intuitive to justice and just a plain silly unethical and revenge driven concept. But what do you think of it?

Profoundly in favour.

There's only one way to 100% guarantee a cessation of recidivism.

[Alyakia]

What do you think of it? Are you for it or against it? I am against it because I feel that the idea of bringing justice by doing the exact thing a murderer did is counter intuitive to justice and just a plain silly unethical and revenge driven concept. But what do you think of it?

Profoundly in favour.

There's only one way to 100% guarantee a cessation of recidivism.

You'd think Tories would be against wasting tax payers money. How sad.

On that note: There's only way to 100% guarantee that innocent people will not be put to death.

Theoritically, you could just throw everyone in a seperate hole in the ground with a grate on top and make it impossible for them to ever be released. Since criminals apparently have no rights and are subhuman scum, it shouldn't be that hard to do.

[Grave_n_idle]

Profoundly in favour.

There's only one way to 100% guarantee a cessation of recidivism.

You'd think Tories would be against wasting tax payers money. How sad.

Stopping crime is a waste of money?

Some things are more important, anyway.

[Alyakia]

You'd think Tories would be against wasting tax payers money. How sad.

Stopping crime is a waste of money?

Some things are more important, anyway.

In a way that is more expensive than life imprisonment in every incarnation in a democratic nation that I can think of that will innevitably put innocent to people to death, yes.

I wasn't aware that killing people was the only way to stop crime.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

I am in favour of it for certain offences, but largely against it. It has been proven time and again, that it is not a deterrent and costs significantly more than a life imprisonment thanks to the legal process behind an execution.

Also, you can't pardon a dead man. Not meaningfully.

[Grave_n_idle]

In a way that is more expensive than life imprisonment in every incarnation in a democratic nation that I can think of that will innevitably put innocent to people to death, yes.

Nope, not true.

The death penalty is not more expensive - you're conflating the practise with all the crap that gets added on to it.

The death penalty is a trivial cost.


Your argument is apparently with broken legal systems, not the penalty itself.

I wasn't aware that killing people was the only way to stop crime.

Who said that it was?

It is, however, the only 100% certain way to stop recidivism.

[Sparexilia]

not a big fan of the death penalty...

[Gernonai]

In a way that is more expensive than life imprisonment in every incarnation in a democratic nation that I can think of that will innevitably put innocent to people to death, yes.

Nope, not true.

The death penalty is not more expensive - you're conflating the practise with all the crap that gets added on to it.

The death penalty is a trivial cost.


Your argument is apparently with broken legal systems, not the penalty itself.

I wasn't aware that killing people was the only way to stop crime.

Who said that it was?

It is, however, the only 100% certain way to stop recidivism.

The death penalty is only more expensive if it is by lethal injection, if you shoot them in the head with a .22 caliber bullet, its slightly less expensive

[Alyakia]

In a way that is more expensive than life imprisonment in every incarnation in a democratic nation that I can think of that will innevitably put innocent to people to death, yes.

Nope, not true.

The death penalty is not more expensive - you're conflating the practise with all the crap that gets added on to it.

The death penalty is a trivial cost.


Your argument is apparently with broken legal systems, not the penalty itself.

I wasn't aware that killing people was the only way to stop crime.

Who said that it was?

It is, however, the only 100% certain way to stop recidivism.

Assuming you've read the thread and know speciifically what crap it is that makes it expensive, do you think you'l be able implement a system without it?

Is it really? You could always, you know, just not release them. Perhaps, a sentence, for life? Then maybe even a confinment, where they are themselves, solitary, as it were.

No, really, please, tell us about the innocent people that will innevitably be sujected to the death penalty.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Nope, not true.

The death penalty is not more expensive - you're conflating the practise with all the crap that gets added on to it.

The death penalty is a trivial cost.


Your argument is apparently with broken legal systems, not the penalty itself.



Who said that it was?

It is, however, the only 100% certain way to stop recidivism.

The death penalty is only more expensive if it is by lethal injection, if you shoot them in the head with a .22 caliber bullet, its slightly less expensive

Were you joking, or do you actually not understand what makes death sentences so much more expensive than life sentences?