The death penalty

[Nazi Flower Power]

In principle I don't have a problem with the death penalty, but in practice I think there are a lot of courts that don't know how to use it responsibly.

Texas really needs to lay off on the executions. We Nazis have to work hard to up with them! I'm sure we gas a lot of innocent people, but we can't allow ourselves to be outdone by a bunch of hicks!

Ahahahah, you Nazi furreners think you can out do Texas/America? The United States had eugenics before you, and invented the gas chamber! Just give up and admit your inferiority now.

Nein! Wir sind Uebermenschen! We admit inferiority to no one! You dumb Yanks don't know what gas chambers are for! You're like the Chinese inventing gunpowder and wasting it on firecrackers.

[UCUMAY]

In principle I don't have a problem with the death penalty, but in practice I think there are a lot of courts that don't know how to use it responsibly.

Texas really needs to lay off on the executions. We Nazis have to work hard to up with them! I'm sure we gas a lot of innocent people, but we can't allow ourselves to be outdone by a bunch of hicks!

You know you're a hick when you live in Texas, and your great uncle blew up tree stumps out of his rice fields with TNT.

[Furthermore]

In principle I don't have a problem with the death penalty, but in practice I think there are a lot of courts that don't know how to use it responsibly.

Texas really needs to lay off on the executions. We Nazis have to work hard to up with them! I'm sure we gas a lot of innocent people, but we can't allow ourselves to be outdone by a bunch of hicks!

You know you're a hick when you live in Texas, and your great uncle blew up tree stumps out of his rice fields with TNT.

Aww, what about all our jobs?
Fort Hood?
NASA has to count for something , guuuys~ :c

[Geniasis]

In principle I don't have a problem with the death penalty, but in practice I think there are a lot of courts that don't know how to use it responsibly.

Texas really needs to lay off on the executions. We Nazis have to work hard to up with them! I'm sure we gas a lot of innocent people, but we can't allow ourselves to be outdone by a bunch of hicks!

You know you're a hick when you live in Texas, and your great uncle blew up tree stumps out of his rice fields with TNT.

Rice fields? Go back to Russia, Geronimo-san.

[Greater Nilfgaard]

People dying of TB, smoking and car accidents are relevant because they are examples of a much greater loss of life than the death penalty (and much less deserved), thus it is strange that they recieve so little attention from people like you, whose entire professed reason for involvement is based on preventing death.

But anyway...
Here is my ideal justice system:

Assuming a guilty verdict, supported by evidence that eradicates any reasonable doubt (DNA, video footage, etc)
The punishment is as follows:

1st degree rape of 1 minor (under 18): 25 years in prison, hard labor.
1st degree rape of an adult (over 18): 20 years in prison (no hard labor)

1st degree rape of 2-5 minors: 50 years in prison, hard labor, castration (depending on particular case; 1 appeal against castration is allowed)
1st degree rape of 2-5 adults: 40 years in prison, hard labor

1st degree rape of 5+ minors: Execution (1 appeal allowed)
1st degree rape of 5-10 adults: Life in Prison, Hard Labor, castration (1 appeal allowed)
1st degree rape of 10+ adults: Execution (1 appeal allowed)

Note: This is all cumulative. Thus if you are convicted for 1 rape, serve your sentence and get rearrested for another rape it counts as 2 rapes the second time.

Preferred method of execution for sexual crimes: One shot to the back of the head, following administration of a general Anesthetic. Organ donation encouraged (family not billed for expenses if form filled out).


1st Degree Murder of Minor: Life in Prison, hard labor
1st degree murder of adult: 20 years - Life, hard labor
1st degree murder of police officer: Execution (1 appeal)
1st degree murder of a state official: Execution (1 appeal)
1st degree murder of pregnant female: Execution (1 appeal)
Multiple Murder (2+ murders): Execution (1 appeal)

Multiple Murders of profoundly sadistic nature: 20 years of solitary confinement, followed by execution (1 appeal)

Note: This is all cumulative. Thus if you are convicted for 1 murder, serve your sentence and get rearrested for another murder it counts as 2 murders the second time.

Preferred method of execution for violent crimes: One shot to the back of the head, following administration of a general Anesthetic. Organ donation encouraged (family not billed for expenses if form filled out).

Drug Trafficking (less than 5 kg): 5-25 years (hard labor eligible)
Drug Trafficking (5-10 kg): 25 years - life, hard labor
Drug Trafficking (10+ Kg): Execution (1 appeal)

Note: This counts for hard drugs (cocaine, heroine, opium, crystal meth), for soft drugs such as Marijuana, execution is only allowed if there are additional transgressions (such as multiple convictions).

For Drug Trafficking Crimes: Lethal Injection is preferred method. Organ Donation is encouraged (Family won't be billed if condemned fills our the form)


Treason: 10 years hard labor- Execution (varies widely depending on crime)(1 appeal)
Sedition: 15 years hard labor- Execution (again, varies widely)(1 appeal)
Desertion: Life Hard Labor (no appeal)
Defection (switching sides during time of war): Execution (no appeal)

For political crimes: execution is carried about by firing squad, no organ donation is considered due to the unpredictable nature of bodily harm. Family is, unless otherwise stated, always responsible for the bill.

All executions, unless otherwise states, are by default to be carried out within 2 weeks of the verdict. Appeals are to be registered no later than 1 week after the verdict, and can take no longer than 1 month. The cost of appeals are to be paid for by the convicted party if possible. If the convicted party is unable to pay for the appeal (due to cost), the courts will sponsor 1 appeal. For fairness, only one appeal is allowed, regardless of the convicted parties' ability to pay for more.

If the families of the condemned refuse to pay the bill of the execution, they will be held in contempt of court and charged with Larceny.

I don't think you've really thought this through. You sound like you're just throwing out numbers of years without any clear understanding of what they mean.

And why does the family have to pay? They aren't the ones who committed a crime.

I threw in what I thought was deserved. and The family has to pay because crime is in some way caused by social and enviornment facts. Meaning they are somewhat responsible. Plus it helps alleviate the cost somewhat.

[Alyakia]

I don't think you've really thought this through. You sound like you're just throwing out numbers of years without any clear understanding of what they mean.

And why does the family have to pay? They aren't the ones who committed a crime.

I threw in what I thought was deserved. and The family has to pay because crime is in some way caused by social and enviornment facts. Meaning they are somewhat responsible. Plus it helps alleviate the cost somewhat.

Even if they haven't talked to the criminal in 15 years? Or are themselves the victim/had a lucky escape?

[Zumreed]

You take a life, you give a life.

I think it should only be in more cruel crimes, like serial killing, war crimes, and killing children on purpose.

[Trixiestan]

You take a life, you give a life.

I think it should only be in more cruel crimes, like serial killing, war crimes, and killing children on purpose.

So, say I kill thirty people... I should get thirty women pregnate, thus giving thirty lives? I'm liking this plan.

[Greater Nilfgaard]

I threw in what I thought was deserved. and The family has to pay because crime is in some way caused by social and enviornment facts. Meaning they are somewhat responsible. Plus it helps alleviate the cost somewhat.

Even if they haven't talked to the criminal in 15 years? Or are themselves the victim/had a lucky escape?

I'll admit The model I gave needs a little work. If thats the case, or if the family is impoverished and can't pay, then the state will do it. This matter would be for the judge, jury and investigation to decide.

[Nazi Flower Power]

I don't think you've really thought this through. You sound like you're just throwing out numbers of years without any clear understanding of what they mean.

And why does the family have to pay? They aren't the ones who committed a crime.

I threw in what I thought was deserved. and The family has to pay because crime is in some way caused by social and enviornment facts. Meaning they are somewhat responsible. Plus it helps alleviate the cost somewhat.

The problem with long sentences is that they make it harder for the criminals to be reintegrated into society when the sentence finally ends. From a practical standpoint, you don't want to keep people locked up so long that they forget how to live on the outside. It doesn't take 25 years for someone to understand they were wrong. Some people aren't capable of understanding their guilt no matter how long you lock them up, and giving them a longer sentence just makes them more bitter; but for those who are capable of understanding their guilt, it does not take that long to sink in.

As to the family being responsible, there are lots of different reasons why people end up committing crimes, and sometimes it has nothing to do with their family.

[Alyakia]

You take a life, you give a life.

I think it should only be in more cruel crimes, like serial killing, war crimes, and killing children on purpose.

So, say I kill thirty people... I should get thirty women pregnate, thus giving thirty lives? I'm liking this plan.

hitler kileld 6 million people so he had to impregnate 6 million women then abort their babies but abortion is murder so whoever aborted the babies just killed 6 million people so thus in turns needs to impre

[Horsefish]

People dying of TB, smoking and car accidents are relevant because they are examples of a much greater loss of life than the death penalty (and much less deserved), thus it is strange that they recieve so little attention from people like you, whose entire professed reason for involvement is based on preventing death.

My entire involvement in a thread about the death penalty is to debate about the death penalty and not about TB or smoking? (you could also argue that the smoking one is self inflicted and as such less deserved)

1st degree rape of 1 minor (under 18): 25 years in prison, hard labor.
1st degree rape of an adult (over 18): 20 years in prison (no hard labor)

1st degree rape of 2-5 minors: 50 years in prison, hard labor, castration (depending on particular case; 1 appeal against castration is allowed)
1st degree rape of 2-5 adults: 40 years in prison, hard labor

1st degree rape of 5+ minors: Execution (1 appeal allowed)
1st degree rape of 5-10 adults: Life in Prison, Hard Labor, castration (1 appeal allowed)
1st degree rape of 10+ adults: Execution (1 appeal allowed)

Note: This is all cumulative. Thus if you are convicted for 1 rape, serve your sentence and get rearrested for another rape it counts as 2 rapes the second time.

Your still missing the point. If you remove/limit the appeals more innocent people are going to die based on the juries prejudices and how good their lawyer is. You aren't going to deter crime and your going to kill more people pointlessly.

1st Degree Murder of Minor: Life in Prison, hard labor
1st degree murder of adult: 20 years - Life, hard labor
1st degree murder of police officer: Execution (1 appeal)
1st degree murder of a state official: Execution (1 appeal)
1st degree murder of pregnant female: Execution (1 appeal)
Multiple Murder (2+ murders): Execution (1 appeal)

Multiple Murders of profoundly sadistic nature: 20 years of solitary confinement, followed by execution (1 appeal)

Why are police officers/state offical worth more than a normal human? Are mitigating circumstances allowed to get around a 1st degree murder charge or is it aquital, plead guilty or execution?
Good way of keeping the costs down too. 20 years of solitary confinment then shoot them. Really saving money aren't you.

Drug Trafficking (less than 5 kg): 5-25 years (hard labor eligible)
Drug Trafficking (5-10 kg): 25 years - life, hard labor
Drug Trafficking (10+ Kg): Execution (1 appeal)

Note: This counts for hard drugs (cocaine, heroine, opium, crystal meth), for soft drugs such as Marijuana, execution is only allowed if there are additional transgressions (such as multiple convictions).

For Drug Trafficking Crimes: Lethal Injection is preferred method. Organ Donation is encouraged (Family won't be billed if condemned fills our the form)

Theres so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start. Drug legalization is the way to go to start with and what about people who use drugs? You going to execute them as well?

All executions, unless otherwise states, are by default to be carried out within 2 weeks of the verdict. Appeals are to be registered no later than 1 week after the verdict, and can take no longer than 1 month. The cost of appeals are to be paid for by the convicted party if possible. If the convicted party is unable to pay for the appeal (due to cost), the courts will sponsor 1 appeal. For fairness, only one appeal is allowed, regardless of the convicted parties' ability to pay for more.

If the families of the condemned refuse to pay the bill of the execution, they will be held in contempt of court and charged with Larceny.

So every shred of evidence can be examined in one week before an appeal? I'm sure there'd be no miscariges of justice

[Spetznaz Assault Teams]

Justice no doubt has it's roots in the human desire for revenge. However, it is pursued objectively by the courts rather than emotionally by the victim.

Certainly that could be the case. It does not, however, mean that the words "vengeance" and "revenge" aren't the same exact thing.

Look em up
they ARE different
I believe i listed the differences earlier... O.o

[Spetznaz Assault Teams]

I threw in what I thought was deserved. and The family has to pay because crime is in some way caused by social and enviornment facts. Meaning they are somewhat responsible. Plus it helps alleviate the cost somewhat.

The problem with long sentences is that they make it harder for the criminals to be reintegrated into society when the sentence finally ends. From a practical standpoint, you don't want to keep people locked up so long that they forget how to live on the outside. It doesn't take 25 years for someone to understand they were wrong. Some people aren't capable of understanding their guilt no matter how long you lock them up, and giving them a longer sentence just makes them more bitter; but for those who are capable of understanding their guilt, it does not take that long to sink in.

As to the family being responsible, there are lots of different reasons why people end up committing crimes, and sometimes it has nothing to do with their family.

Its not about "being remorseful" its about the message and the deterrent. If there were no punishment then we would have 100s of serial rapists. Because there ARE punishments (ESPECIALLY CASTRATION) we have far fewer. Now, imagine enacting those laws, but then NOT following through on the punishments. It might take 2-3 cases, but after that nobody would be afraid of the "toothless lion". You follow?

[Alyakia]

The problem with long sentences is that they make it harder for the criminals to be reintegrated into society when the sentence finally ends. From a practical standpoint, you don't want to keep people locked up so long that they forget how to live on the outside. It doesn't take 25 years for someone to understand they were wrong. Some people aren't capable of understanding their guilt no matter how long you lock them up, and giving them a longer sentence just makes them more bitter; but for those who are capable of understanding their guilt, it does not take that long to sink in.

As to the family being responsible, there are lots of different reasons why people end up committing crimes, and sometimes it has nothing to do with their family.

Its not about "being remorseful" its about the message and the deterrent. If there were no punishment then we would have 100s of serial rapists. Because there ARE punishments (ESPECIALLY CASTRATION) we have far fewer. Now, imagine enacting those laws, but then NOT following through on the punishments. It might take 2-3 cases, but after that nobody would be afraid of the "toothless lion". You follow?

Deterrents aren't the be all end all because people are too stupid/arrogant and assum they won't be caught. Excessive punishments are pretty much useless.

100s of serial rapists? Seriously?

[-St George]

Here is my ideal justice system:

Assuming a guilty verdict, supported by evidence that eradicates any reasonable doubt (DNA, video footage, etc)
The punishment is as follows:

1st degree rape of 1 minor (under 18): 25 years in prison, hard labor.
1st degree rape of an adult (over 18): 20 years in prison (no hard labor)

1st degree rape of 2-5 minors: 50 years in prison, hard labor, castration (depending on particular case; 1 appeal against castration is allowed)
1st degree rape of 2-5 adults: 40 years in prison, hard labor

1st degree rape of 5+ minors: Execution (1 appeal allowed)
1st degree rape of 5-10 adults: Life in Prison, Hard Labor, castration (1 appeal allowed)
1st degree rape of 10+ adults: Execution (1 appeal allowed)

Note: This is all cumulative. Thus if you are convicted for 1 rape, serve your sentence and get rearrested for another rape it counts as 2 rapes the second time.

Preferred method of execution for sexual crimes: One shot to the back of the head, following administration of a general Anesthetic. Organ donation encouraged (family not billed for expenses if form filled out).


1st Degree Murder of Minor: Life in Prison, hard labor
1st degree murder of adult: 20 years - Life, hard labor
1st degree murder of police officer: Execution (1 appeal)
1st degree murder of a state official: Execution (1 appeal)
1st degree murder of pregnant female: Execution (1 appeal)
Multiple Murder (2+ murders): Execution (1 appeal)

Multiple Murders of profoundly sadistic nature: 20 years of solitary confinement, followed by execution (1 appeal)

Note: This is all cumulative. Thus if you are convicted for 1 murder, serve your sentence and get rearrested for another murder it counts as 2 murders the second time.

Preferred method of execution for violent crimes: One shot to the back of the head, following administration of a general Anesthetic. Organ donation encouraged (family not billed for expenses if form filled out).

Drug Trafficking (less than 5 kg): 5-25 years (hard labor eligible)
Drug Trafficking (5-10 kg): 25 years - life, hard labor
Drug Trafficking (10+ Kg): Execution (1 appeal)

Note: This counts for hard drugs (cocaine, heroine, opium, crystal meth), for soft drugs such as Marijuana, execution is only allowed if there are additional transgressions (such as multiple convictions).

For Drug Trafficking Crimes: Lethal Injection is preferred method. Organ Donation is encouraged (Family won't be billed if condemned fills our the form)


Treason: 10 years hard labor- Execution (varies widely depending on crime)(1 appeal)
Sedition: 15 years hard labor- Execution (again, varies widely)(1 appeal)
Desertion: Life Hard Labor (no appeal)
Defection (switching sides during time of war): Execution (no appeal)

For political crimes: execution is carried about by firing squad, no organ donation is considered due to the unpredictable nature of bodily harm. Family is, unless otherwise stated, always responsible for the bill.

All executions, unless otherwise states, are by default to be carried out within 2 weeks of the verdict. Appeals are to be registered no later than 1 week after the verdict, and can take no longer than 1 month. The cost of appeals are to be paid for by the convicted party if possible. If the convicted party is unable to pay for the appeal (due to cost), the courts will sponsor 1 appeal. For fairness, only one appeal is allowed, regardless of the convicted parties' ability to pay for more.

If the families of the condemned refuse to pay the bill of the execution, they will be held in contempt of court and charged with Larceny.

Wait, so you're a) executing large amounts of people, many of them innocent b) charging innocent people for said executions and c) getting rid of an appeals system that saves lives and livelihoods?

[Horsefish]

Its not about "being remorseful" its about the message and the deterrent. If there were no punishment then we would have 100s of serial rapists. Because there ARE punishments (ESPECIALLY CASTRATION) we have far fewer. Now, imagine enacting those laws, but then NOT following through on the punishments. It might take 2-3 cases, but after that nobody would be afraid of the "toothless lion". You follow?

Apart from it's proven that punishments don't deter people. People steal shit in places where they can get their hands chopped off.

When you commit a crime you never think you'll be caught. Also, I doubt people are going to go out and just start raping people without a punishment.

Wait, so you're a) executing large amounts of people, many of them innocent b) charging innocent people for said executions and c) getting rid of an appeals system that saves lives and livelihoods?

No, but it's fine. The justice system can save money by charging the criminals relatives which totally justifies it.

[Keronians]

Its not about "being remorseful" its about the message and the deterrent. If there were no punishment then we would have 100s of serial rapists. Because there ARE punishments (ESPECIALLY CASTRATION) we have far fewer. Now, imagine enacting those laws, but then NOT following through on the punishments. It might take 2-3 cases, but after that nobody would be afraid of the "toothless lion". You follow?

Apart from it's proven that punishments don't deter people. People steal shit in places where they can get their hands chopped off.

When you commit a crime you never think you'll be caught. Also, I doubt people are going to go out and just start raping people without a punishment.

Wait, so you're a) executing large amounts of people, many of them innocent b) charging innocent people for said executions and c) getting rid of an appeals system that saves lives and livelihoods?

No, but it's fine. The justice system can save money by charging the criminals relatives which totally justifies it.

Actually, I'd argue that punishments do deter people.

The death penalty isn't really a deterrent because, well, getting locked up forever is a pretty harsh sentence on its own. In both cases, the person will be isolated from society, so it's not really a deterrent at all.

As an example, many of the rioters were looting because they thought they wouldn't get caught. Punishments do deter.

[Horsefish]

Actually, I'd argue that punishments do deter people.

The death penalty isn't really a deterrent because, well, getting locked up forever is a pretty harsh sentence on its own. In both cases, the person will be isolated from society, so it's not really a deterrent at all.

As an example, many of the rioters were looting because they thought they wouldn't get caught. Punishments do deter.

Point. I badly worded mine

I mean, if you've pre-meditated your murder (you know, executable crimes) you probally don't tihnk you'll get caught. If it's in the heat of passion you just do it and don't consider the consequences.

I'd argue as well that the riots was more of an example of deinduvidualisation (Spelling?) and what would happen to minor crimes without the rule of law. Rape and murder is slightly diffrent.

[Keronians]

Actually, I'd argue that punishments do deter people.

The death penalty isn't really a deterrent because, well, getting locked up forever is a pretty harsh sentence on its own. In both cases, the person will be isolated from society, so it's not really a deterrent at all.

As an example, many of the rioters were looting because they thought they wouldn't get caught. Punishments do deter.

Point. I badly worded mine

I mean, if you've pre-meditated your murder (you know, executable crimes) you probally don't tihnk you'll get caught. If it's in the heat of passion you just do it and don't consider the consequences.

I'd argue as well that the riots was more of an example of deinduvidualisation (Spelling?) and what would happen to minor crimes without the rule of law. Rape and murder is slightly diffrent.

Yeah, I more or less agree with this.

In more serious crimes, the only effect the law has is of you factoring in the punishment, and thus spending time planning how to not get caught.

[Horsefish]

Yeah, I more or less agree with this.

In more serious crimes, the only effect the law has is of you factoring in the punishment, and thus spending time planning how to not get caught.

So we managed to agree with each other?

Good, the thread can close now. It's all over.

[UCUMAY]

You know you're a hick when you live in Texas, and your great uncle blew up tree stumps out of his rice fields with TNT.

Rice fields? Go back to Russia, Geronimo-san.

Arkansas grows rice. You're simply mistaken.

[Ciel Rouge]

If someone commits a crime and they're killed, they become a martyr for their beliefs and people who believe similar things will follow in their footsteps. Imprison them, have them routinely talk to psychiatrists during their stay, and even if their sentence has ended, only release them if they've shown legitimate scientific signs of rehabilitation. I'd also like to put forth that the death penalty, nor fines, are good ways to deter crime. In both situations, if you're crazy enough to kill someone or mildly enraged enough to speed you aren't thinking about the consequences.

[Xenohumanity]

I am in favor of the death penalty if it meets the following requirements...
1. Carefully used only for those who have proven they are of no use to society and are beyond rehabilitation.
2. Employed after all measures have been taken to prevent botching of the investigation into their guilt (police fucking up evidence, forced testimony, etc.)
3. Quick and Cost-Effective, Regardless of the pain or consent of the executed. A shotgun blast to (the gibbets that used to be) the head might actually be less painful than a botched euthanization, IMO.

[Greater Nilfgaard]

If someone commits a crime and they're killed, they become a martyr for their beliefs and people who believe similar things will follow in their footsteps. Imprison them, have them routinely talk to psychiatrists during their stay, and even if their sentence has ended, only release them if they've shown legitimate scientific signs of rehabilitation. I'd also like to put forth that the death penalty, nor fines, are good ways to deter crime. In both situations, if you're crazy enough to kill someone or mildly enraged enough to speed you aren't thinking about the consequences.

Martyrdom is more political. Perhaps if somebody was arrested for treason, they could become a martyr in the eyes of those who already hate said country.

However, I fail to see how an executed serial killer or pedophile would be a martyr to anybody not already seriously deranged. After all, to be a martyr, your actions must seem 'holy', righteous or justified to a significant section of society.