The death penalty

[The FTR]

I am almost always against killing other people. Not going to lie, but mainly because death makes me insecure.
But from a buisness standpoint, if the person has a chance of changing their ways, repaying society with work and good citizenship, then they should be given at least one more chance, albeit with a prison sentence and then rehabilitation first.

[Horsefish]

In the words of Thomas Jefferson, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Also, do you think it's possible to rehabilitate someone that doesn't want to be rehab'd? Or someone who is psychotic, mentally unstable?

And what does that quote have to do with anything?

That is what prison is for. Rehab can't be 100% successful but it's morally preferable over killing people, which doesn't even act as a deterrant.

[Alyakia]

when the soviet unions secret police started massacaring prisoners i almost wanted to cry in happiness but on the inside i am torn because that would be unpatriotic ):

[The Parkus Empire]

Ah, ah, ah. Appeals. The number of innocent people put to death without them would go up seven-fold.

The appeals process in our country is a joke... It shouldn't be more expensive to kill them, than imprision them for the rest of their life.

The appeals process in our country might be a joke to people who aren't in prison, but it does indeed save lives. Understand, in order for an appeal to be successful, you can't just create "reasonable doubt", it doesn't work like that. Your initial trial is innocent until proven guilty--with appeals, it's guilty until proven innocent. "Reasonable doubt" works against you.

[Horsefish]

Well thats fine then. I mean I'm sure giving the government that kind of power wouldn't set a bad precident and those innocent people who die, well fuck it, they most likely going to be black and/or poor anyway. Fuck 'em, it's like natural selection!

But seriously, you can't be serious.

I was being vindictive.

Which is nothing to base a government off. The desire for revenge is not sutabile to found a country's laws on.

[UCUMAY]

I was being vindictive.

Which is nothing to base a government off. The desire for revenge is not sutabile to found a country's laws on.

Towards the poster. Not the policy...

[Horsefish]

Towards the poster. Not the policy...

Ah. Wouldn't call that being vindictive, it's more sarcastic

[Strykla]

In the words of Thomas Jefferson, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Also, do you think it's possible to rehabilitate someone that doesn't want to be rehab'd? Or someone who is psychotic, mentally unstable?

And what does that quote have to do with anything?

That is what prison is for. Rehab can't be 100% successful but it's morally preferable over killing people, which doesn't even act as a deterrant.

As for the quote, if you didn't understand it you must be blind. Read it, reread it, read it again, then Google it.

Ah, and now you bring up morals. The definition of a moral is is a message conveyed or a lesson to be learned from a story or event. And the lesson I've learned over time is that humans are bastards, and some deserve nothing but death. But I'm asking you: How is it morally preferable? Has history proven that people who have done things warranting capital punishment deserve the benefit of the doubt? That there's probably a better nature that can be reached? (Which is actually not true.)

[Horsefish]

As for the quote, if you didn't understand it you must be blind. Read it, reread it, read it again, then Google it.

Ah, and now you bring up morals. The definition of a moral is is a message conveyed or a lesson to be learned from a story or event. And the lesson I've learned over time is that humans are bastards, and some deserve nothing but death. But I'm asking you: How is it morally preferable? Has history proven that people who have done things warranting capital punishment deserve the benefit of the doubt? That there's probably a better nature that can be reached? (Which is actually not true.)

Call me blind all you want, the quote has nothing to do with a debate over capital punishment. I do believe it's refrencing fighting wars for freedom or something along those lines.

What arbitary line do we draw where someone 'deserves' death? Murder? Serial killing? I'm not going to pretend I'm immune from thinking that some people should be killed after hearing about it on the news.
And how can you say that everyone on death row has no better nature? The bias of American courts are well known and has a significant impact on your sentencing.

Also thats no the only defination of moral.

[Strykla]

As for the quote, if you didn't understand it you must be blind. Read it, reread it, read it again, then Google it.

Ah, and now you bring up morals. The definition of a moral is is a message conveyed or a lesson to be learned from a story or event. And the lesson I've learned over time is that humans are bastards, and some deserve nothing but death. But I'm asking you: How is it morally preferable? Has history proven that people who have done things warranting capital punishment deserve the benefit of the doubt? That there's probably a better nature that can be reached? (Which is actually not true.)

Call me blind all you want, the quote has nothing to do with a debate over capital punishment. I do believe it's refrencing fighting wars for freedom or something along those lines.

What arbitary line do we draw where someone 'deserves' death? Murder? Serial killing? I'm not going to pretend I'm immune from thinking that some people should be killed after hearing about it on the news.
And how can you say that everyone on death row has no better nature? The bias of American courts are well known and has a significant impact on your sentencing.

Also thats no the only defination of moral.

If you can't see what I was trying to say with the quote, than we'll drop it. I blame wikipedia for the definition mix-up.

I'm not the one to decide who gets the punishment; That's for the jury.

As for the better nature, you should go read Starship Troopers for a detailed explanation, but I'll give you the short-and-sweet version: If you try to reach someone's better nature, you will either find it or you won't. If people never have the sense to acquire a better nature, than you won't get it because it isn't there.

[Alyakia]

Call me blind all you want, the quote has nothing to do with a debate over capital punishment. I do believe it's refrencing fighting wars for freedom or something along those lines.

What arbitary line do we draw where someone 'deserves' death? Murder? Serial killing? I'm not going to pretend I'm immune from thinking that some people should be killed after hearing about it on the news.
And how can you say that everyone on death row has no better nature? The bias of American courts are well known and has a significant impact on your sentencing.

Also thats no the only defination of moral.

If you can't see what I was trying to say with the quote, than we'll drop it. I blame wikipedia for the definition mix-up.

I'm not the one to decide who gets the punishment; That's for the jury.

As for the better nature, you should go read Starship Troopers for a detailed explanation, but I'll give you the short-and-sweet version: If you try to reach someone's better nature, you will either find it or you won't. If people never have the sense to acquire a better nature, than you won't get it because it isn't there.

Isn't it more for the Judge?

[Strykla]

If you can't see what I was trying to say with the quote, than we'll drop it. I blame wikipedia for the definition mix-up.

I'm not the one to decide who gets the punishment; That's for the jury.

As for the better nature, you should go read Starship Troopers for a detailed explanation, but I'll give you the short-and-sweet version: If you try to reach someone's better nature, you will either find it or you won't. If people never have the sense to acquire a better nature, than you won't get it because it isn't there.

Isn't it more for the Judge?

I don't know, that's why I stay away from a career in the Justice system. All I can say is, someone or some people in the courtroom make the decision.

[Horsefish]

If you can't see what I was trying to say with the quote, than we'll drop it. I blame wikipedia for the definition mix-up.

I'm not the one to decide who gets the punishment; That's for the jury.

As for the better nature, you should go read Starship Troopers for a detailed explanation, but I'll give you the short-and-sweet version: If you try to reach someone's better nature, you will either find it or you won't. If people never have the sense to acquire a better nature, than you won't get it because it isn't there.

Ah but you need to define which crimes could warrent capital punishment. Otherwise (in theroy at least) someone could be sentenced to death for stealing.

[The Parkus Empire]

If you can't see what I was trying to say with the quote, than we'll drop it. I blame wikipedia for the definition mix-up.

I'm not the one to decide who gets the punishment; That's for the jury.

As for the better nature, you should go read Starship Troopers for a detailed explanation, but I'll give you the short-and-sweet version: If you try to reach someone's better nature, you will either find it or you won't. If people never have the sense to acquire a better nature, than you won't get it because it isn't there.

Ah but you need to define which crimes could warrent capital punishment. Otherwise (in theroy at least) someone could be sentenced to death for stealing.

Stealing from charities deserves the double death (except churches).

[Greater Nilfgaard]

I'm so damn sick of that argument.

A bullet costs around 8-40 cents, keeping them alive for their entire lives as well as providing security, housing, etc, costs well into the hundreds of thousands.

Execution per se doesn't cost more than keeping them alive, nobody can argue that it does. It's just all the stupid bureaucracy and endless bs appeals (which are done to satisfy you lot) added to the fact that the prisoner isn't dead yet (thus your still paying for everything I mentioned before) that make executions costly.

In other words...

appeals are what make the death penalty so expensive, the reason there are so many appeals is to satisfy the anti-death crowd (you). Ergo, executions are only expensive to satisfy you thus you can't complain about it's cost since your the reason for it.

I'm in favor of a quick bullet to the head within one week of the guilty verdict.

Nice to see you support state sanctioned murder of innocent people.

Nice to see you can't read

I said after a guilty verdict. The people killed wouldn't be innocent, but convicted criminals.

While were at it, here's another English 101 tip:
Murder means premeditated and unlawful killing, since execution isn't unlawful (even if you think it's morally wrong) it can't be considered murder.

Thus "execution = state sanctioned murder" is an oxymoron because it was the law that led to the execution.

[Unilisia]

Personally believe that noone deserves to die

Its worse to rot in prison than it is to die in my eyes

It's also an enormous drain for taxpayer money.

[Sorratsin]

Personally believe that noone deserves to die

Its worse to rot in prison than it is to die in my eyes

It's also an enormous drain for taxpayer money.

No where near as big as the death penalty is.

[The Parkus Empire]

It's also an enormous drain for taxpayer money.

No where near as big as the death penalty is.

^ Pretty much my only objection to the death penalty.

[Bafuria]

I oppose it because it's impractical and dangerous.

[Greater Nilfgaard]

It's also an enormous drain for taxpayer money.

No where near as big as the death penalty is.

Only reason it's so expensive is to satisfy the liberals with countless (usually useless) appeals that clog up the system..

[The Parkus Empire]

No where near as big as the death penalty is.

Only reason it's so expensive is to satisfy the liberals with countless (usually useless) appeals that clog up the system..

Reducing wrongful executions by nearly 85% in the process. Is that not worth the cost?

[Sorratsin]

No where near as big as the death penalty is.

Only reason it's so expensive is to satisfy the liberals with countless (usually useless) appeals that clog up the system..

Would you rather have innocent people get killed by the government?

[Alyakia]

No where near as big as the death penalty is.

Only reason it's so expensive is to satisfy the liberals with countless (usually useless) appeals that clog up the system..

You know, except the hundreds of people that have been acquited/charges dismissed/etc. (my favourite is the 33 years later guy) and the fact that appeals aren't exclusively liberal.

[Keronians]

I think that Japan, South Korea, and the US are the only countries in the developed world with the death penalty.

China has it too and they use it alot.

I didn't realise that China was among the developed countries.

[Keronians]

So we execute more innocents, amirite?

I'M SO DAMN SICK OF THAT ARGUMENT!

Very few potentially innocent people have been executed compared to known killers. And if that happens to not be the case, then don't blame capital punishment, blame the system.

I posted a Wikipedia list of all the people who were wrongly convicted of the death penalty, but were later released thanks to appeals, with the exception of 8 confirmed, and 39 possibly.