92% of Americans want to live in Sweden.

[AiliailiA]

I dont know if its crock.
US citizens are easily mislead when not given all the facts....

I don't think anything is misleading. Other than the thread title.

I admitted that early in the thread.

Perhaps you can suggest a better thread title, which isn't over-long, or deceptive in some other way?

92% of Americans would prefer to live in a country with Sweden's distribution of wealth, than in the country they actually live in. I've yet to see any criticism of the study or that fact which it found.

Yeah, the thread title is a little deceptive. Is it too much to ask that people read the Original Post before shooting their mouths off?

[Sibirsky]

I don't think anything is misleading. Other than the thread title.

I admitted that early in the thread.

Perhaps you can suggest a better thread title, which isn't over-long, or deceptive in some other way?

92% of Americans would prefer to live in a country with Sweden's distribution of wealth, than in the country they actually live in. I've yet to see any criticism of the study or that fact which it found.

Yeah, the thread title is a little deceptive. Is it too much to ask that people read the Original Post before shooting their mouths off?

I don't have a problem with the study. They were asked to pick a level of wealth distribution they would prefer. 92% picked the more equal option, probably because it seems more fair. Without any further information, that's a decent choice.

[New England and The Maritimes]

I would want to live in Sweden of today myself. Better economic climate, better government, better education, infrastructure, nicer people, better weather, etc. What's keeping my here, apart from lacking the financial capacity to move, is that I want more to live in the America of tomorrow, provided there is one when the GOP is finally done, since we can have all of this and more if we just have the will to create it.

[Lessnt]

misinformation and not being told the whole truth are two different things in my opinion.
Of course that is the manipulator in me talking.

The real point is that you singled US citizens out as people who would not understand something correctly if given insufficient information.

Lets see....I live in the USA.....I have not been to any other country...I have read many studies inside this country and have watched the news and so on in this country.
So I can say US citizens are easily mislead.
Not so sure on other countries mostly because I really do not care that much.
It is a human thing but I have only ever lived in the US.

[Ordo Drakul]

If 92% of the Americans participating in that survey prefer Sweden, so be it-let them move and be out of our hair.

[Serrland]

Well, my ragequit at life plan has always been to sell of everything and try my hand on a fishing trawler in the Baltic...

[AiliailiA]

I saw this covered on PBS Newshour yesterday. This episode.

Now I'll link to the online version of the quiz, against from PBS's website. Before you look at this, bear in mind that the online version is not necessarily "cold canvassed" ... a lot of the respondents would already know the answer from watching the show or indeed reading the page it is on. Here is the quiz that PBS gave to people on the street.

Now, PBS's "research" on the street was completely unscientific. But on their site they link to the study by Michael Norton and Dan Ariely, which is pretty damn scientific.

Here's a link to the pdf from Harvard Business School's site.

92% of Americans, when choosing between the actual wealth distribution of the United States and that of Sweden (without knowing which is which) actually prefer Sweden.

As far as I can tell, the study does not say what proportion of people actually think they're living in Sweden (wealth-distribution wise).

I am sure that Sweden is a nice place to live. I am also sure this statistic is a crock.

I linked to the study, so you have no excuse at all to call the statistic a crock.

As can be seen in Figure 1, the (unlabeled) United States distribution was far less desirable than both the (unlabeled) Sweden distribution and the equal distribution, with some 92% of Americans preferring the Sweden distribution to the United States. In addition, this overwhelming preference for the Sweden distribution over the United States distribution was robust across gender (females: 92.7%, males: 90.6%), preferred candidate in the 2004 election (Bush voters: 90.2%; Kerry voters: 93.5%) and income (less than $50,000: 92.1%; $50,001–$100,000: 91.7%; more than $100,000: 89.1%). In addition, there was a slight preference for the distribution that resembled Sweden relative to the equal distribution, suggesting that Americans prefer some inequality to perfect equality, but not to the degree currently present in the United States

This isn't MY opinion.

This is the opinion of Michael I. Norton (Associate Professor, Harvard Business School) and Dan Ariely (Professor of Behavioral Economics, Duke University).

Political polling of 1,000 people is well accepted here on NSG (eg, Gallup) so tell me why we should reject this study which used over 5,000 samples and discloses all the relevant cross factors (like gender, age, party allegiance) in its examination of the beliefs of Americans?

Trying to see it from your point of view, I do see some scope to criticize the methodology. If I was in your place, I wouldn't be cowed by the qualifications of the authors. I'd have at it.

So have at it. Show how they're wrong.

[Ordo Drakul]

I am sure that Sweden is a nice place to live. I am also sure this statistic is a crock.

I linked to the study, so you have no excuse at all to call the statistic a crock.

As can be seen in Figure 1, the (unlabeled) United States distribution was far less desirable than both the (unlabeled) Sweden distribution and the equal distribution, with some 92% of Americans preferring the Sweden distribution to the United States. In addition, this overwhelming preference for the Sweden distribution over the United States distribution was robust across gender (females: 92.7%, males: 90.6%), preferred candidate in the 2004 election (Bush voters: 90.2%; Kerry voters: 93.5%) and income (less than $50,000: 92.1%; $50,001–$100,000: 91.7%; more than $100,000: 89.1%). In addition, there was a slight preference for the distribution that resembled Sweden relative to the equal distribution, suggesting that Americans prefer some inequality to perfect equality, but not to the degree currently present in the United States

This isn't MY opinion.

This is the opinion of Michael I. Norton (Associate Professor, Harvard Business School) and Dan Ariely (Professor of Behavioral Economics, Duke University).

Political polling of 1,000 people is well accepted here on NSG (eg, Gallup) so tell me why we should reject this study which used over 5,000 samples and discloses all the relevant cross factors (like gender, age, party allegiance) in its examination of the beliefs of Americans?

Trying to see it from your point of view, I do see some scope to criticize the methodology. If I was in your place, I wouldn't be cowed by the qualifications of the authors. I'd have at it.

So have at it. Show how they're wrong.

How were the participants selected? Did they just grab 1000 people randomly or did they send out mail to an already biased group? Asking 1,000 Klansmen their view on civil rights will not reflect the entire country.

[Lessnt]

If 92% of the Americans participating in that survey prefer Sweden, so be it-let them move and be out of our hair.

nevermind misread.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Taking this report at face value, it doesn't mean that the Government of America can never take action to reduce the welfare inequality gap to compete with Sweden.

If they don't then well, this report is indicative. Only time can tell.

[AiliailiA]

I admitted that early in the thread.

Perhaps you can suggest a better thread title, which isn't over-long, or deceptive in some other way?

92% of Americans would prefer to live in a country with Sweden's distribution of wealth, than in the country they actually live in. I've yet to see any criticism of the study or that fact which it found.

Yeah, the thread title is a little deceptive. Is it too much to ask that people read the Original Post before shooting their mouths off?

I don't have a problem with the study. They were asked to pick a level of wealth distribution they would prefer. 92% picked the more equal option, probably because it seems more fair. Without any further information, that's a decent choice.

I'd have picked the "middle" option too.

As I said to Katganistan, there is plenty of scope to criticize the methodology of the study.

I'm pretty damn socialist, so obviously I would not choose the "top 20% have 84% of the wealth" option. But nor would I choose the "top 20% have exactly the same as the bottom 20%" because I understand the huge intervention into the economy which would be necessary to achieve that. Command economy, really, and I'm not THAT socialist. I see that it is good for everybody that their be a profit incentive and that some are richer than others in consequence.

I'd choose the middle one! If I had an option somewhere between the wealth distribution of Sweden, and that of the United States, I'd probably choose something between them. Seems I'm not quite as socialist as Sweden when it comes to wealth distribution, hehe. But the study did not offer anything close to the US distribution. It offered a distribution (Sweden) way to the other end of real world examples, and an entirely fictitious example (which PBS wittily calls Freedonia).

Lots of scope to criticize the methodology. But it's a nicely written report and it has Names to it, so for now I'm happy to be the poster holding it forth and not the poster trying to demolish it. Hehe.

[AiliailiA]

If 92% of the Americans participating in that survey prefer Sweden, so be it-let them move and be out of our hair.

nevermind misread.

It's hard to imagine what any country would be like, if 92% of the population got up and left.

Right away, property would be very cheap. We'd go out and break some windows to discourage foreign investors, sell our cars and buy up property right?

Like, the country will repopulate pretty quick so grab the land, eh?

[AiliailiA]

I linked to the study, so you have no excuse at all to call the statistic a crock.



This isn't MY opinion.

This is the opinion of Michael I. Norton (Associate Professor, Harvard Business School) and Dan Ariely (Professor of Behavioral Economics, Duke University).

Political polling of 1,000 people is well accepted here on NSG (eg, Gallup) so tell me why we should reject this study which used over 5,000 samples and discloses all the relevant cross factors (like gender, age, party allegiance) in its examination of the beliefs of Americans?

Trying to see it from your point of view, I do see some scope to criticize the methodology. If I was in your place, I wouldn't be cowed by the qualifications of the authors. I'd have at it.

So have at it. Show how they're wrong.

How were the participants selected? Did they just grab 1000 people randomly or did they send out mail to an already biased group? Asking 1,000 Klansmen their view on civil rights will not reflect the entire country.

Hmm. The part of the report I quoted pretty much rules that out. The sample was representative of all incomes, the two major party allegiances, age and gender. They didn't poll the KKK.

Direct your attention to questions asked, not who the questions were asked of. Have at it!

[Shaoyuan]

Just more evidence of the failure of capitalism and democracy...

Oh yeah, whatever. You don't seem to get that the thread isn't about how capitalism sucks or the US sucks.

It's about the public beliefs which underlie all of the political debate. If an overwhelming majority of people don't know the current situation, how can we expect them to make any valid decision about changes to or preservation of the current situation? Specifically, about taxes on the rich.

You should be interested in that. It goes right to your concerns about "stupid people voting" from the other thread. If there is to be a knowledge test for eligibility to vote, wouldn't you say that identifying the correct chart for the current US wealth distribution should be a marked question? It's something they should know, before deciding whether higher taxes on the rich is a good or a bad idea.

That's exactly what I'm saying, democracy is a failure. >_>

[Sibirsky]

nevermind misread.

It's hard to imagine what any country would be like, if 92% of the population got up and left.

Right away, property would be very cheap. We'd go out and break some windows to discourage foreign investors, sell our cars and buy up property right?

Like, the country will repopulate pretty quick so grab the land, eh?

I would be more worried about Sweden, than the US, if the 9.3 million Swedes, suddenly had 287.5 million Americans moving into their country.

Property values in the US would drop, dramatically. Say, by 92%?

[Lessnt]

It's hard to imagine what any country would be like, if 92% of the population got up and left.

Right away, property would be very cheap. We'd go out and break some windows to discourage foreign investors, sell our cars and buy up property right?

Like, the country will repopulate pretty quick so grab the land, eh?

I would be more worried about Sweden, than the US, if the 9.3 million Swedes, suddenly had 287.5 million Americans moving into their country.

Property values in the US would drop, dramatically. Say, by 92%?

They would probably illegally smuggle in tons of weapons too lol.

[Sibirsky]

I would be more worried about Sweden, than the US, if the 9.3 million Swedes, suddenly had 287.5 million Americans moving into their country.

Property values in the US would drop, dramatically. Say, by 92%?

They would probably illegally smuggle in tons of weapons too lol.

But property values in Sweden would skyrocket. I would love to know if this happened, prior to the fact.

[Nationstatelandsville]

Prefer the wealth distribution of Sweden /=/ Want to live in Sweden.

I'd love to have some of the wonderful architecture of St. Petersburg, doesn't mean I want to live in Russia.

This. I would use that quote about improving your country, but I'm sure it's been used already in this thread.

[Risottia]

92% of Americans, when choosing between the actual wealth distribution of the United States and that of Sweden (without knowing which is which) actually prefer Sweden.

As far as I can tell, the study does not say what proportion of people actually think they're living in Sweden (wealth-distribution wise).

I think Sweden should impose immigration quotas on those pesky American foreigners who want to steal their welfare.

[Casta Nal]

Americans are closet socialists, lol.

[Sibirsky]

Americans are closet socialists, lol.

[Lessnt]

Americans are closet socialists, lol.

Of course most are lol.
Have you seen how america is?
You have to be delusional to live there and maintain your sanity.

[Glugerstut]

I Want to live in Amsterdam, Netherlands, Yep......

[Tekcirb]

They have conquered the world now. We are their slaves.

[Tekcirb]

Americans are closet socialists, lol.

Americans just like Ikea
and to Americans (and most people) Ikea = Sweden