92% of Americans want to live in Sweden.

[AiliailiA]

I saw this covered on PBS Newshour yesterday. This episode.

Now I'll link to the online version of the quiz, against from PBS's website. Before you look at this, bear in mind that the online version is not necessarily "cold canvassed" ... a lot of the respondents would already know the answer from watching the show or indeed reading the page it is on. Here is the quiz that PBS gave to people on the street.

Now, PBS's "research" on the street was completely unscientific. But on their site they link to the study by Michael Norton and Dan Ariely, which is pretty damn scientific.

Here's a link to the pdf from Harvard Business School's site.

92% of Americans, when choosing between the actual wealth distribution of the United States and that of Sweden (without knowing which is which) actually prefer Sweden.

As far as I can tell, the study does not say what proportion of people actually think they're living in Sweden (wealth-distribution wise).

[Conserative Morality]

Prefer the wealth distribution of Sweden /=/ Want to live in Sweden.

I'd love to have some of the wonderful architecture of St. Petersburg, doesn't mean I want to live in Russia.

[AiliailiA]

Prefer the wealth distribution of Sweden /=/ Want to live in Sweden.

I'd love to have some of the wonderful architecture of St. Petersburg, doesn't mean I want to live in Russia.

Hey a thread title can only be so long. I think I've made it plain in the OP what 92% of US Americans actually opted for.

Did you read the study? It's pretty good.

[AiliailiA]

Did you read the study? It's pretty good.

Of course I read it I'm not a fucking moron.

Ah, celibate then? My apologies.

[Shaoyuan]

Yeah but imagine if their governments were tobacco companies.

Your unfunny gimmick is now more unfunny.

[Shaoyuan]

But yeah it's a pretty obvious choice when you look at the graph. I don't see what else to say about this.

[Barringtonia]

It's related to the NIMBY problem, 92% would probably select 'we should ensure we have all our electricity generated through wind power' but if you ask whether they want a windmill next to their house they'll be all 'hell no!'

Similarly, I'm sure most people do prefer better wealth distribution but if you asked if they wanted the actual policies that affect them - and whether those aren't already implemented or worse in the US is a separate debate - they would similarly vote 'hell no'.

Ideals are great when removed from the individual.

[Meridiani Planum]

I'm an American who has lived in Sweden for the past 8 years. I prefer the American system, not because of any particular "wealth-distribution", but because it does not have a system that promotes wealth-egalitarianism as much as Sweden does. A variation in wealth is fine for a society, especially when it is the result of economic freedom.

[Dagnia]

I don't think they want Sweden's alcoholism or suicide rate, which is probably a result of the fact that there are fewer challenges in life because of everything being taken care of for you.

[Shaoyuan]

I'm an American who has lived in Sweden for the past 8 years. I prefer the American system, not because of any particular "wealth-distribution", but because it does not have a system that promotes wealth-egalitarianism as much as Sweden does. A variation in wealth is fine for a society, especially when it is the result of economic freedom.

Clearly a system which allows the top 1% to control like 40% of the wealth is fine...

[AiliailiA]

It's related to the NIMBY problem, 92% would probably select 'we should ensure we have all our electricity generated through wind power' but if you ask whether they want a windmill next to their house they'll be all 'hell no!'

Similarly, I'm sure most people do prefer better wealth distribution but if you asked if they wanted the actual policies that affect them - and whether those aren't already implemented or worse in the US is a separate debate - they would similarly vote 'hell no'.

Ideals are great when removed from the individual.

I agree with this as a political analysis.

But I think the study shows that not only do most people have an unrealistic view of how wealth should be distributed, but that view is based on a very faulty understanding of how it actually is distributed. They think it is more even than it really is ... and consequently, they think that getting to a more even distribution (which they say they would prefer) either isn't a high priority, or doesn't justify nasty things like taxing the rich more heavily.

[Shaoyuan]

It's related to the NIMBY problem, 92% would probably select 'we should ensure we have all our electricity generated through wind power' but if you ask whether they want a windmill next to their house they'll be all 'hell no!'

Similarly, I'm sure most people do prefer better wealth distribution but if you asked if they wanted the actual policies that affect them - and whether those aren't already implemented or worse in the US is a separate debate - they would similarly vote 'hell no'.

Ideals are great when removed from the individual.

I agree with this as a political analysis.

But I think the study shows that not only do most people have an unrealistic view of how wealth should be distributed, but that view is based on a very faulty understanding of how it actually is distributed. They think it is more even than it really is ... and consequently, they think that getting to a more even distribution (which they say they would prefer) either isn't a high priority, or doesn't justify nasty things like taxing the rich more heavily.

Or more likely, maybe they're just shit stupid and don't understand that taxes don't just go to sky fairies that make all the money disappear.

[Vecherd]

I think I would much rather live in the U.S than Sweden, sure as a Norwegian I am in Sweden about every week, but l would not like to live in Sweden more than the U.S and I bet most Americans wouldn't either when they found about all the laws and catches.

[Vecherd]

I'm an American who has lived in Sweden for the past 8 years. I prefer the American system, not because of any particular "wealth-distribution", but because it does not have a system that promotes wealth-egalitarianism as much as Sweden does. A variation in wealth is fine for a society, especially when it is the result of economic freedom.

Clearly a system which allows the top 1% to control like 40% of the wealth is fine...

In Sweden the top 350 people probably control more than 40% of the wealth.

[Meridiani Planum]

Clearly a system which allows the top 1% to control like 40% of the wealth is fine...

Yes, that is perfectly fine, as long as they come to that wealth through honest means, and not government redistribution.

[Meridiani Planum]

I think I would much rather live in the U.S than Sweden, sure as a Norwegian I am in Sweden about every week, but l would not like to live in Sweden more than the U.S and I bet most Americans wouldn't either when they found about all the laws and catches.

Yes, that's true. "The grass is always greener..."

[Shaoyuan]

Clearly a system which allows the top 1% to control like 40% of the wealth is fine...

In Sweden the top 350 people probably control more than 40% of the wealth.

If only there was a graph in the OP that could settle this debate, oh yeah.

[Shaoyuan]

Clearly a system which allows the top 1% to control like 40% of the wealth is fine...

Yes, that is perfectly fine, as long as they come to that wealth through honest means, and not government redistribution.

[Revolutopia]

Most Americans have no idea what they want and instead they think they can have everything thus supporting government programs when it supports them, but at the same time no wanting to pay the taxes that are needed to fund that support such programs.

Thus, overall this is just another example of Americans wanting something good, but in reality not being willing to take the steps necessary to bring it about.

[Vecherd]

In Sweden the top 350 people probably control more than 40% of the wealth.

If only there was a graph in the OP that could settle this debate, oh yeah.

What debate? The Swedish government holds a massive grip on its citizens. 350 349 is the number of people in the parliament of Sweden.

[AiliailiA]

I'm an American who has lived in Sweden for the past 8 years. I prefer the American system, not because of any particular "wealth-distribution", but because it does not have a system that promotes wealth-egalitarianism as much as Sweden does. A variation in wealth is fine for a society, especially when it is the result of economic freedom.

Clearly a system which allows the top 1% to control like 40% of the wealth is fine...

You're welcome to argue about that in this thread, but I won't be getting involved in the right and wrong of it.

What has my attention is how the rosy view of the US as a land where you get rich if you work hard can actually be measured. People like to believe that those near the middle (who they know, and may actually be, and who do work hard) are getting rich. When in fact, the bottom 20% have nothing (no surprise there) but the middle don't have much.

If you define the middle class as the 40-60 percentile, they have 4% of the wealth. If you define it more widely, from 20% to 80%, they have 16% of the wealth ... that sounds better, but it's not very good for 60% of the whole population which could generously be called "middle class".

[Shaoyuan]

Clearly a system which allows the top 1% to control like 40% of the wealth is fine...

You're welcome to argue about that in this thread, but I won't be getting involved in the right and wrong of it.

What has my attention is how the rosy view of the US as a land where you get rich if you work hard can actually be measured. People like to believe that those near the middle (who they know, and may actually be, and who do work hard) are getting rich. When in fact, the bottom 20% have nothing (no surprise there) but the middle don't have much.

If you define the middle class as the 40-60 percentile, they have 4% of the wealth. If you define it more widely, from 20% to 80%, they have 16% of the wealth ... that sounds better, but it's not very good for 60% of the whole population which could generously be called "middle class".

Just more evidence of the failure of capitalism and democracy...

[Vecherd]

Just more evidence of the failure of capitalism and democracy...

Except the U.S don't got Capitalism.

[AiliailiA]

You're welcome to argue about that in this thread, but I won't be getting involved in the right and wrong of it.

What has my attention is how the rosy view of the US as a land where you get rich if you work hard can actually be measured. People like to believe that those near the middle (who they know, and may actually be, and who do work hard) are getting rich. When in fact, the bottom 20% have nothing (no surprise there) but the middle don't have much.

If you define the middle class as the 40-60 percentile, they have 4% of the wealth. If you define it more widely, from 20% to 80%, they have 16% of the wealth ... that sounds better, but it's not very good for 60% of the whole population which could generously be called "middle class".

Just more evidence of the failure of capitalism and democracy...

Oh yeah, whatever. You don't seem to get that the thread isn't about how capitalism sucks or the US sucks.

It's about the public beliefs which underlie all of the political debate. If an overwhelming majority of people don't know the current situation, how can we expect them to make any valid decision about changes to or preservation of the current situation? Specifically, about taxes on the rich.

You should be interested in that. It goes right to your concerns about "stupid people voting" from the other thread. If there is to be a knowledge test for eligibility to vote, wouldn't you say that identifying the correct chart for the current US wealth distribution should be a marked question? It's something they should know, before deciding whether higher taxes on the rich is a good or a bad idea.

[Siorafrica]

Most Americans have no idea what they want and instead they think they can have everything thus supporting government programs when it supports them, but at the same time no wanting to pay the taxes that are needed to fund that support such programs.

Thus, overall this is just another example of Americans wanting something good, but in reality not being willing to take the steps necessary to bring it about.