Your view on The EU

[Moral Libertarians]

What is your view on the EU(See what I did thar??). Honestly, I hate it, its horrible basket case, and a ticking time bomb, it was a horrible idea from the start. It is also a viable threat to the Sovereignty of EU Nations. what about you?

An ultimately flawed concept that is growing increasingly closer to a federation.

[Moral Libertarians]

Seems like a United Europe would be able to compete better on the international market with larger nations like the US, China, and India. Seems to me being united is always better than being separate. I'm pretty sure if the US was broken into 50 different countries, their collective wealth wouldn't be close to the amount of wealth the US could generate now.

You're talking about a single market, not a political union. The unrestricted movement of resources between European countries has already been achieved; there is no economic reason for moving any closer politically, and plenty of reasons not to. The 'competition' you talk about between countries seems to imply protectionism.

[The House of Petain]

You've done well for 70 years because America gave you a shitload of money after the war and made your markets dependent on one another.

Well the 70 years thing was a joke but then I guess Americans don't understand sarcasm , Plus you giving Europe money is the only thing that stopped war in Europe ? There has been no war because the last two were so terrible - I think Europe is actually relatively warred out! Also Im not sure about the rest of Europe but the UK isn't dependent on our European 'partners' a statistic thrown out at Eurosceptics is that "oh 65 or 75% of trade is within the EU". This fails to mention that most of that trade is within the UK.

Yes, the Marshal Plan effectively tied Europe's markets together. You need money to have a war between yourselves. But you make money by each other. So therefore you don't fight each other, because it would mean no money.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The amount of people saying "a war will solve it!" is rather disappointing.

We are not going to go shooting each other just because you think it might speed up some political processes. That is a terrible reason to have millions of people die.

It will happen eventually.And millions will die also.

There is no logical reason why it would have to happen. Democracies have this habit of not declaring war on other democracies.

[Lessnt]

Well the 70 years thing was a joke but then I guess Americans don't understand sarcasm , Plus you giving Europe money is the only thing that stopped war in Europe ? There has been no war because the last two were so terrible - I think Europe is actually relatively warred out! Also Im not sure about the rest of Europe but the UK isn't dependent on our European 'partners' a statistic thrown out at Eurosceptics is that "oh 65 or 75% of trade is within the EU". This fails to mention that most of that trade is within the UK.

Yes, the Marshal Plan effectively tied Europe's markets together. You need money to have a war between yourselves. But you make money by each other. So therefore you don't fight each other, because it would mean no money.

The yankee merchant strikes again.
Would anyone else like to purchase the brooklyn bridge?

[Lessnt]

It will happen eventually.And millions will die also.

There is no logical reason why it would have to happen. Democracies have this habit of not declaring war on other democracies.

There is this thing called human nature.
You see even when there are things in place to help prevent ourselves from going to war and killing eachother....our nature finds a way even with those preventions.

[Dumb Ideologies]

There is no logical reason why it would have to happen. Democracies have this habit of not declaring war on other democracies.

There is this thing called human nature.
You see even when there are things in place to help prevent ourselves from going to war and killing eachother....our nature finds a way even with those preventions.

I guess it's fine if you want to believe a universal human nature exists and that it is negative and fixed. I'm just going to raise an eyebrow at that one.

[Lessnt]

There is this thing called human nature.
You see even when there are things in place to help prevent ourselves from going to war and killing eachother....our nature finds a way even with those preventions.

I guess it's fine if you want to believe a universal human nature exists and that it is negative and fixed. I'm just going to raise an eyebrow at that one.

Humans are mostly harmless.
The problem is.They are still harmful.
When we are harmful.We can find ways of doing it well.
For us to get along ALL the time.It would require us to do things that are very unnatural.
It is why there is always a oppressive force.
Negative effects cannot be negated.Only managed and delayed.

[Dumb Ideologies]

I guess it's fine if you want to believe a universal human nature exists and that it is negative and fixed. I'm just going to raise an eyebrow at that one.

Humans are mostly harmless.
The problem is.They are still harmful.
When we are harmful.We can find ways of doing it well.
For us to get along ALL the time.It would require us to do things that are very unnatural.
It is why there is always a oppressive force.
Negative effects cannot be negated.Only managed and delayed.

There's a big gap between sometimes not getting on well and modern, developed, democratic countries shooting missiles at each other.

[Lessnt]

Humans are mostly harmless.
The problem is.They are still harmful.
When we are harmful.We can find ways of doing it well.
For us to get along ALL the time.It would require us to do things that are very unnatural.
It is why there is always a oppressive force.
Negative effects cannot be negated.Only managed and delayed.

There's a big gap between sometimes not getting on well and modern, developed, democratic countries shooting missiles at each other.

It is a matter of time.
Or do you expect us to simply be in a never ending arms race?
It is far too easy to motivate people to war.
Human nature is at fault.

[Alyakia]

What is your view on the EU(See what I did thar??). Honestly, I hate it, its horrible basket case, and a ticking time bomb, it was a horrible idea from the start. It is also a viable threat to the Sovereignty of EU Nations. what about you?

An ultimately flawed concept that is growing increasingly closer to a federation.

Be honest: If you could go back in time and be born as a freedom loving American, would you?

[Dumb Ideologies]

There's a big gap between sometimes not getting on well and modern, developed, democratic countries shooting missiles at each other.

It is a matter of time.
Or do you expect us to simply be in a never ending arms race?
It is far too easy to motivate people to war.
Human nature is at fault.

I expect people to act like adults when they are accountable to a public, have Really Big Bombs and where fucking up will lead to the deaths of Millions of Us.

[Alyakia]

If it was just the Council of Europe (EU without the law making and common governance) and a trade agreement then I wouldn't mind it.

Alas, tis not.

Britain pays the highest amount towards the EU and gets alot less in return compared to over countries, we also gave the ESA a rocket that actually worked only for the French to nick it and claim it as their own.

Money to EU (billions)

Germany 164
France 140
Italy 116
United Kingdom 103

The most amount of money "lost" is Germany, giving 164 and recieving 78, giving them a net "benefit" of -87.

[Moral Libertarians]

An ultimately flawed concept that is growing increasingly closer to a federation.

Be honest: If you could go back in time and be born as a freedom loving American, would you?

Probably not. the UK is... tolerable to live in. For now...

[Lucatopia]

If it was just the Council of Europe (EU without the law making and common governance) and a trade agreement then I wouldn't mind it.

Alas, tis not.

Britain pays the highest amount towards the EU and gets alot less in return compared to over countries, we also gave the ESA a rocket that actually worked only for the French to nick it and claim it as their own.

Money to EU (billions)

Germany 164
France 140
Italy 116
United Kingdom 103

The most amount of money "lost" is Germany, giving 164 and recieving 78, giving them a net "benefit" of -87.

If you want to homogenize a region economically some have to give and some have to take. It's a quite natural thing. I say this as a German. And it's not like we wouldn't make profit otherwise.

[The Matthew Islands]

Because its not an authoritarian asshole trying to force its will on people like Britain.

lol explain ?

Its a joke because Keronin called Britain an authoritarian asshole for oppressing Ireland (I think), but then says that Spain is not willing to accept the views of a majority of people in a region that might want independence.

[The House of Petain]

Yes, the Marshal Plan effectively tied Europe's markets together. You need money to have a war between yourselves. But you make money by each other. So therefore you don't fight each other, because it would mean no money.

The yankee merchant strikes again.
Would anyone else like to purchase the brooklyn bridge?

We are buying part of a bridge from China for the Bay area, does that count?

[Angleter]

I see no reason why we in Britain should pay several billion pounds a year to join in a political union which provides us with few substantive benefits for which there are no more palatable alternatives, and has the ultimate goal of turning us into a province of a giant multinational confederation.

[Norstal]

There is no logical reason why it would have to happen. Democracies have this habit of not declaring war on other democracies.

There is this thing called human nature.
You see even when there are things in place to help prevent ourselves from going to war and killing eachother....our nature finds a way even with those preventions.

Appeal to nature fallacies sucks.

[Trixiestan]

I see no reason why we in Britain should pay several billion pounds a year to join in a political union which provides us with few substantive benefits for which there are no more palatable alternatives, and has the ultimate goal of turning us into a province of a giant multinational confederation.

Sounds pretty awesome to me~

[Keronians]

The number of people saying "European civil war!" scares me...

One of the most prosperous and technologically developed regions in the World with a manpower of over 500,000,000... at war... the notion scares me.

[Keronians]

I see no reason why we in Britain should pay several billion pounds a year to join in a political union which provides us with few substantive benefits for which there are no more palatable alternatives, and has the ultimate goal of turning us into a province of a giant multinational confederation.

I don't see the bad part yet...

[Keronians]

lol explain ?

Its a joke because Keronin called Britain an authoritarian asshole for oppressing Ireland (I think), but then says that Spain is not willing to accept the views of a majority of people in a region that might want independence.

The difference between a patriot and a traitor is victory.

[Colonial corfu]

Look The E.U Is bloody amasing pepole in the U.S.A don't like it cos its more power full than them.

[Genivaria]

The European Union is just one more step on my road to NWO. One day you will all thank me.