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Your view on The EU

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Trixiestan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6288
Founded: Jul 12, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Trixiestan » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:14 pm

Keronians wrote:
Chyeknovostan Republic wrote:
As long as it doesnt involve Ukraine and Russia I don't care.


Doesn't Ukraine want to join the EU? :eyebrow:


It did, but I'm not sure if it still does. As far as I know, the current President is very Pro-Russian (he was the guy that got ousted in the Orange Revolution) and the former Pro-Western President (Yulia Tymoshenko~) is currently on trial for "abuse of power".
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Chyeknovostan Republic
Minister
 
Posts: 3108
Founded: May 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Chyeknovostan Republic » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:15 pm

Keronians wrote:
Chyeknovostan Republic wrote:
As long as it doesnt involve Ukraine and Russia I don't care.


Doesn't Ukraine want to join the EU? :eyebrow:


-Loads artillery- Not if I have anything to do with it, Leave my country out of it.
Chyekish Soviet Union

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Dread Lady Nathicana
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 26053
Founded: Antiquity
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Postby Dread Lady Nathicana » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:18 pm

Palene wrote:STUPID STUPID STUPID. The EU is all stupid, when the stupid euro goes into crisis.... the whole EU will fail and the world will plunge into an economic disaster and everybody will be dying from starvation and begging for food and it will be a world disaster.

TAX THE POOR
FEED THE RICH
ONLY BUY GOVERNMENT-SUPPORTED PRODUCTS

And I ask, why the heck didn't the US attack Canada, we could have got so much land then. Then force the Mexicans to learn English. :)

The Euro will destroy the world... don't let it happen :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Ok kiddo, here's the deal. This post here? Smiliespam at the very least, outrageous accusations and statements, and basically looking like you're just here to hit and run with it all. Which generally seems to be a troll attempt. You're new so far as I can tell. You've a clean record so far, so count this as your notice to knock it off, and try to contribute with something of substance, or not at all. Grazie.

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Rupture Farms co
Diplomat
 
Posts: 833
Founded: Oct 03, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Rupture Farms co » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:21 pm

EU is gonna collapse soon. Its all whether Germany is willing to pay everybody for debt they have nothing to do with. And good riddance to a system of socialism and overlordship.

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Alyakia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18422
Founded: Jul 12, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alyakia » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:23 pm

Rupture Farms co wrote:EU is gonna collapse soon. Its all whether Germany is willing to pay everybody for debt they have nothing to do with. And good riddance to a system of socialism and overlordship.

Show me some of the socialist policies of the EU.
pro: good
anti: bad

The UK and EU are Better Together

"Margaret Thatcher showed the world that women are not too soft or the weaker sex, and can be as heartless, horrible, and amoral as any male politician."

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Moral Libertarians
Minister
 
Posts: 3207
Founded: Apr 22, 2011
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Postby Moral Libertarians » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:23 pm

Keronians wrote:
Vellosia wrote:
The fantastical (and slightly insane) part of my mind would like to see it collapse. :p

But the rest of my mind, even though I absolutely detest it, recognises that it would be a disaster if the Euro collapsed. However, the question is whether the Euro can survive.


Yeah, I was answering that bit. I think the Euro will be able to survive, at least for the next few decades, if it had a fund capable of issuing debt for the entire Eurozone.

Said fund could also act to liquidate Greece, Portugal and the like.

Not to mention that the ECB's job would become much easier. :p


A "Eurobond" will inevitably rated lower than AAA, unless the burden of repayments is to fall on Germany. Then it just becomes a loan from Germany to the southerners, with a third party (bond buyers) in-between. Any obligation which puts some of the responsibility for interest on Greece, Italy, Spain etc. is going to receive a slightly-less-than warm welcome on the markets.

That's what I think anyway.
Free market is best market.
Political Compass
I support Anarcho-Capitalism
Terra Agora wrote:A state, no matter how small, is not liberty. Taxes are not liberty, government courts are not liberty, government police are not liberty. Anarchy is liberty and anarchy is order.
Occupied Deutschland: [Government] is arbitrary. It draws a line in the sand wherever it wants, and if one crosses it, one gets punished. The only difference is where the line is.
Staenwald: meh tax evasion is understandable in some cases. I don't want some filthy politician grabbing my money for something I don't use.
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The moment statism is wiped off the face of this planet it is impossible for any corporation to continue its existance.

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Rupture Farms co
Diplomat
 
Posts: 833
Founded: Oct 03, 2008
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Postby Rupture Farms co » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:29 pm

Alyakia wrote:
Rupture Farms co wrote:EU is gonna collapse soon. Its all whether Germany is willing to pay everybody for debt they have nothing to do with. And good riddance to a system of socialism and overlordship.

Show me some of the socialist policies of the EU.

Bailing out stupid countries like Greece and Ireland.

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Zoingo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 653
Founded: May 20, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Zoingo » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:31 pm

The EU is just a massive joke. Out of all the chatter that comes out of Brussels my favorite is from the hardline internationalist MEPs who want to compare the EU's foundation to the USA a la 1789, and an eventual Federal Europe competing with America militarily and economically. Given the utter lack of democratic legitimacy in any of its institutions, morally their position is frivolous. Sure they have a "European Parliament," but it is barred from initiating legislation and from appropriating funds, something that is prevalent in any liberal democracy in the world.

As for economically, a Federal Europe will soon be vastly overshadowed by the emerging Asian, South American, and African economies which will shift to a multipolar world, Europe cannot just limp along trading with itself while shielding certain inefficient industries from foreign competition.

Militarily, NATO is still around. If the EU tries to replace, dislodge, or destroy NATO then most certainly trans Atlantic relations will go to hell in a hand basket.

On an unrelated note, Switzerland is trolling the EU by leaving a gap in their map. :P
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Alyakia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18422
Founded: Jul 12, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alyakia » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:33 pm

Explain this lack of democratic legitimacy.

NOT THE TRANS ATLANTIC RELATIONSHIP NO

Holevetica.
pro: good
anti: bad

The UK and EU are Better Together

"Margaret Thatcher showed the world that women are not too soft or the weaker sex, and can be as heartless, horrible, and amoral as any male politician."

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Alyakia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18422
Founded: Jul 12, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alyakia » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:33 pm

Rupture Farms co wrote:
Alyakia wrote:Show me some of the socialist policies of the EU.

Bailing out stupid countries like Greece and Ireland.

That's all?
pro: good
anti: bad

The UK and EU are Better Together

"Margaret Thatcher showed the world that women are not too soft or the weaker sex, and can be as heartless, horrible, and amoral as any male politician."

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United Casio
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1016
Founded: May 31, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby United Casio » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:34 pm

Zoingo wrote:On an unrelated note, Switzerland is trolling the EU by leaving a gap in their map. :P


:lol2:

None at the moment.
Name:The People's State of United Casio
Leader: Undefined
Ideology:Communism
Main Race:Aryan
Delegacies held:2
Founderships held:10
Use of Nuclear Weapons? Assured.
My nations ideology, Communism, does not represent my own ideology
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The Corparation wrote:You burned a caked.......you poor sadistic bastard. What did that cake ever do to you?

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Trixiestan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6288
Founded: Jul 12, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Trixiestan » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:34 pm

Rupture Farms co wrote:EU is gonna collapse soon. Its all whether Germany is willing to pay everybody for debt they have nothing to do with. And good riddance to a system of socialism and overlordship.


Okay guys, this brings me to a very important point. Does the EU plan on turning Europe into a neo-soviet totalarian state, a neo-fascist totalarian state or a neo-plutocratic totalarian state?

Big question time~
Last edited by Trixiestan on Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My Last.FM.
(Feel free to make flag requests)

Economic Left/Right: -8.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.67

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Shaoyuan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1232
Founded: Nov 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Shaoyuan » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:35 pm

Trixiestan wrote:
Rupture Farms co wrote:EU is gonna collapse soon. Its all whether Germany is willing to pay everybody for debt they have nothing to do with. And good riddance to a system of socialism and overlordship.


Okay guys, this brings me to a very important point. Does the EU plan on turning Europe into a neo-soviet totalarian state, a neo-fascist totalarian state or a neo-plutocratic state?

Big question time~

Clearly Plutocratic looking at how the EU is made up... But you could say the same thing about the majority of Europe anyway.
Since it seems so popular these days -
Economic Left/Right: -8.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.23

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Free Herman States
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Sep 10, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Free Herman States » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:38 pm

Zoingo wrote:The EU is just a massive joke. Out of all the chatter that comes out of Brussels my favorite is from the hardline internationalist MEPs who want to compare the EU's foundation to the USA a la 1789, and an eventual Federal Europe competing with America militarily and economically. Given the utter lack of democratic legitimacy in any of its institutions, morally their position is frivolous. Sure they have a "European Parliament," but it is barred from initiating legislation and from appropriating funds, something that is prevalent in any liberal democracy in the world.

As for economically, a Federal Europe will soon be vastly overshadowed by the emerging Asian, South American, and African economies which will shift to a multipolar world, Europe cannot just limp along trading with itself while shielding certain inefficient industries from foreign competition.

Militarily, NATO is still around. If the EU tries to replace, dislodge, or destroy NATO then most certainly trans Atlantic relations will go to hell in a hand basket.

On an unrelated note, Switzerland is trolling the EU by leaving a gap in their map. :P



Sure, the European Parliament *doesn't* have the sort of powers that it ought to have. This ignores where they started out from. The EEC was originally just supposed to be a supranational/intergovernmental thing. Why get a parliament for that? Ever since deciding to integrate more; the European Parliament has been steadily increasing in power over the decades. Assuming the Euro crisis doesn't destroy everything, they'll probably give it more power in time.

Federal Europe will be better than trying to deal with the rising Asian powers individually. The trading with yourself bit (Germany trades more with the Netherlands than China!) can go on for a loooong while before it becomes a problem.

Nato and the EU more or less get along well. The EU groups just tend to augment whatever mischief Nato's up to.

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Zoingo
Diplomat
 
Posts: 653
Founded: May 20, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Zoingo » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:58 pm

Free Herman States wrote:Sure, the European Parliament *doesn't* have the sort of powers that it ought to have. This ignores where they started out from. The EEC was originally just supposed to be a supranational/intergovernmental thing. Why get a parliament for that? Ever since deciding to integrate more; the European Parliament has been steadily increasing in power over the decades. Assuming the Euro crisis doesn't destroy everything, they'll probably give it more power in time.


That is entirely irrelevant to the point, there is still a democratic deficiency and even with the multitude of treaties that have been passed over the years, the EP has been pretty much ignored. Even the failed European Constitution had very insignificant changes to the European Parliament, hardly the sort of framework for a true Federal Europe. The idea that it is going to gain any more power at the expense of the Council or Commission is folly, even if the Euro somehow survives the crisis.

Free Herman States wrote:Federal Europe will be better than trying to deal with the rising Asian powers individually. The trading with yourself bit (Germany trades more with the Netherlands than China!) can go on for a loooong while before it becomes a problem.

Nato and the EU more or less get along well. The EU groups just tend to augment whatever mischief Nato's up to.


A Federal Europe is less likely to adapt to the global market than its member countries will; and trading with yourself can't go on for a long time, especially if emerging markets are providing resources you will need.

As for NATO and the EU, I concede on the mischief.
Last edited by Zoingo on Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Diplomacy is for people who wish escape RL; General is for people who have too much time in RL; The WA is for people who want to be bureaucrats in RL; The Archives is for people wanting to look back at how others spent time in their RL; and Technical is for people who already cannot find enough to complain about in RL anyway.

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