Your view on The EU

[Keronians]

The European Union is just one more step on my road to NWO. One day you will all thank me.
(Image)

We will take the US' throne!

[Genivaria]

The European Union is just one more step on my road to NWO. One day you will all thank me.
(Image)

We will take the US' throne!

You think too small my minion, first the continent, then THE WORLD!

[Angleter]

I see no reason why we in Britain should pay several billion pounds a year to join in a political union which provides us with few substantive benefits for which there are no more palatable alternatives, and has the ultimate goal of turning us into a province of a giant multinational confederation.

I don't see the bad part yet...

I direct you to the paying of several billion pounds a year, the political union with few substantive benefits, and the ultimate goal of taking away Britain's independence.

[Keronians]

I don't see the bad part yet...

I direct you to the paying of several billion pounds a year, the political union with few substantive benefits, and the ultimate goal of taking away Britain's independence.

I still don't see it...

Paying several billion pounds a year? The other developed countries in the EU are having to do that as well. The money will eventually come back in the form of more prosperous industry, and a strong eastern Europe.

The political union with few substantive benefits? How about you list me what you feel are the advantages and disadvantages? Politically, of course.

And, finally, taking away Britain's independence? Don't see the fuss. If you weren't hot on that, you shouldn't have joined, because that was the goal FROM THE START.

[Vellosia]

Originally, actually, the whole EU (and it's precursor) was simply supposed to be an economic community with free trade. I have no problem with that at all.

When the EU became decidedly political, that's what turned me against it.

[Keronians]

Originally, actually, the whole EU (and it's precursor) was simply supposed to be an economic community with free trade. I have no problem with that at all.

When the EU became decidedly political, that's what turned me against it.

No, actually.

The goal of the founders was always to establish a federal Europe. When a political union failed, they went for an economic union.

[Vellosia]

Originally, actually, the whole EU (and it's precursor) was simply supposed to be an economic community with free trade. I have no problem with that at all.

When the EU became decidedly political, that's what turned me against it.

No, actually.

The goal of the founders was always to establish a federal Europe. When a political union failed, they went for an economic union.

And the political union failed for good reasons.

Economic union is fine. When some bureaucrats in Brussels start making laws for your own nation that you cannot defy, that is going too far.

[Keronians]

No, actually.

The goal of the founders was always to establish a federal Europe. When a political union failed, they went for an economic union.

-> EEC.

They always meant for it to progressively evolve into a federation.

[Vellosia]

Read edit.

And it's compounded by the fact our government sold out without any referendum approval whatsoever.

Although I do actually wonder what the EU could really do if you did defy it's laws...

[Genivaria]

Read edit.

And it's compounded by the fact our government sold out without any referendum approval whatsoever.

Although I do actually wonder what the EU could really do if you did defy it's laws...

I'm sorry but I just can't take you seriously with that pony there.

[Vellosia]

Read edit.

And it's compounded by the fact our government sold out without any referendum approval whatsoever.

Although I do actually wonder what the EU could really do if you did defy it's laws...

I'm sorry but I just can't take you seriously with that pony there.

I know. It is sort of degrading, isn't it?

[Alyakia]

I direct you to the paying of several billion pounds a year, the political union with few substantive benefits, and the ultimate goal of taking away Britain's independence.

I still don't see it...

Paying several billion pounds a year? The other developed countries in the EU are having to do that as well. The money will eventually come back in the form of more prosperous industry, and a strong eastern Europe.

The political union with few substantive benefits? How about you list me what you feel are the advantages and disadvantages? Politically, of course.

And, finally, taking away Britain's independence? Don't see the fuss. If you weren't hot on that, you shouldn't have joined, because that was the goal FROM THE START.

but but we give them money and they give it to less developed countries and not us WHY WON'T THEY GIVE US MONEY I WANT MONEY POLAND GETS MONEY WHY DON'T I GET MONEY GIVE ME MONEY OR I AM TAKING MY BALL AND GOING HOME p.s. brussels

[Alyakia]

Read edit.

And it's compounded by the fact our government sold out without any referendum approval whatsoever.

Although I do actually wonder what the EU could really do if you did defy it's laws...

I'm sorry but I just can't take you seriously with that pony there.

At least Rainbow Dash is pretty fitting.

ponyburn

[Alyakia]

Read edit.

And it's compounded by the fact our government sold out without any referendum approval whatsoever.

Although I do actually wonder what the EU could really do if you did defy it's laws...

The Brussels dictatorship should created in the same way our glorious Union was.

[Keronians]

Read edit.

And it's compounded by the fact our government sold out without any referendum approval whatsoever.

Although I do actually wonder what the EU could really do if you did defy it's laws...

That's not Brussels' fault, it's London's fault.

As for the laws, all laws must pass through the European Parliament, where the UK is represented. Not to mention that, AFAIK, a third of UK MEPs are from UKIP. They must also go through the Council of Ministers.

And any treaties which change the way the EU works, and how its laws apply, must be ratified by the Queen and UK parliament.

EDIT: A fine, I assume. We'll find out what happens if you violate the European Convention for Human Rights in October, I suppose, if the UK doesn't grant the vote to prisoners as demanded by the European Court of Human Rights.

[Angleter]

I direct you to the paying of several billion pounds a year, the political union with few substantive benefits, and the ultimate goal of taking away Britain's independence.

I still don't see it...

Paying several billion pounds a year? The other developed countries in the EU are having to do that as well. The money will eventually come back in the form of more prosperous industry, and a strong eastern Europe.

The political union with few substantive benefits? How about you list me what you feel are the advantages and disadvantages? Politically, of course.

And, finally, taking away Britain's independence? Don't see the fuss. If you weren't hot on that, you shouldn't have joined, because that was the goal FROM THE START.

However, we could leave and remain in the EEA, and we'd still get the benefits of trade with a more prosperous Eastern Europe. Meanwhile Germany gets its money's worth in its effective economic domination of Europe, and France gets its money's worth in being the leader in terms of EU foreign policy.

And please do tell me what the advantages are to EU membership, aside from EURATOM. Disadvantages include the haemorrhaging of money to Brussels, the variety of Europarl laws that have sod-all to do with the single market and could just as easily be enacted here if it's a good idea (ie. all that doesn't get 'faxed' to the EFTA states), not to mention the fact that we'd get full control over our foreign policy back if we leave. There are more, I'm sure, but that should get us started.

And back in 1973/4, even though I oppose the move myself, there was no EEA and so EEC membership was more economically attractive (they said three million jobs would be gained/saved by EEC membership- ironically, that's what was lost as a result, but we made jobs elsewhere too). I have every confidence that had John Major carried on in the vein of Thatcher, then we would've withdrawn at Maastricht to return to EFTA and the EEA. If not then, then we ought to step back now before the whole union gets tightened up further.

[The Matthew Islands]

-sni[ for quote.-

The fact that you are against the EU gives me hope that one day we might leave and just return to the economic side of it.

[Keronians]

I still don't see it...

Paying several billion pounds a year? The other developed countries in the EU are having to do that as well. The money will eventually come back in the form of more prosperous industry, and a strong eastern Europe.

The political union with few substantive benefits? How about you list me what you feel are the advantages and disadvantages? Politically, of course.

And, finally, taking away Britain's independence? Don't see the fuss. If you weren't hot on that, you shouldn't have joined, because that was the goal FROM THE START.

However, we could leave and remain in the EEA, and we'd still get the benefits of trade with a more prosperous Eastern Europe. Meanwhile Germany gets its money's worth in its effective economic domination of Europe, and France gets its money's worth in being the leader in terms of EU foreign policy.

And please do tell me what the advantages are to EU membership, aside from EURATOM. Disadvantages include the haemorrhaging of money to Brussels, the variety of Europarl laws that have sod-all to do with the single market and could just as easily be enacted here if it's a good idea (ie. all that doesn't get 'faxed' to the EFTA states), not to mention the fact that we'd get full control over our foreign policy back if we leave. There are more, I'm sure, but that should get us started.

And back in 1973/4, even though I oppose the move myself, there was no EEA and so EEC membership was more economically attractive (they said three million jobs would be gained/saved by EEC membership- ironically, that's what was lost as a result, but we made jobs elsewhere too). I have every confidence that had John Major carried on in the vein of Thatcher, then we would've withdrawn at Maastricht to return to EFTA and the EEA. If not then, then we ought to step back now before the whole union gets tightened up further.

Eh, it's a bit outdated, but: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/so-what-has-europe-ever-done-for-us-apart-from-441138.html

As for joining EFTA, might I remind you that you'd be forced to accept laws regarding the single market even if they don't benefit you, whilst if you were in the EU, you could actually have a say in the Council and the Parliament.

[The Matthew Islands]

As for joining EFTA, might I remind you that you'd be forced to accept laws regarding the single market even if they don't benefit you, whilst if you were in the EU, you could actually have a say in the Council and the Parliament.

Its going to be difficult for you to convince British people Britain should remain in the EU because some British Politicians are there.

[Keronians]

As for joining EFTA, might I remind you that you'd be forced to accept laws regarding the single market even if they don't benefit you, whilst if you were in the EU, you could actually have a say in the Council and the Parliament.

Its going to be difficult for you to convince British people Britain should remain in the EU because some British Politicians are there.

The point is that unwanted legislation can't be forced upon you, whilst if you were in EFTA, it could.

[The Matthew Islands]

Its going to be difficult for you to convince British people Britain should remain in the EU because some British Politicians are there.

The point is that unwanted legislation can't be forced upon you, whilst if you were in EFTA, it could.

Well it can. What happens if every single UK MEP votes no on a law. Is it still passed or does it not get through?

[Daranicuss]

Fuck you guys saying you want a federal Europe! The countries of Europe deserve their independence, not be enslaved by the EUSSR. At least we still retain some freedoms unlike the united states where the government screws over it's people without them even realising. The EU only works as an alliance of nations of Europe, like a regional UN, not countries so joined together they might as well be provinces of Brussels. Greece is fucked because of it, Ireland might follow suit, Spain or Italy or both may soon default. Unless the organization disbands or reels in it's crappy system the peoples of Europe will soon lose their self determination.

[Vestr-Norig]

The Eu is a Capitalist, secular so-called democracy, only made to serve the largest countires of Europe (Germany, Britain, France, etc), While for smaller nations it is like a dictatorship. It is only good for the largest coorporations, no one else. The EU kills local democracies, and centralizes most forms of power and administration to Brüssel. They consciously neglects smaller countires and its people, and denies counties true independence. Those in power would rather see a fully united Europe, as one country. They wants a Superstate.
Hopefully, it will fall soon, which is also very likely, as the opposition to the EU is rising in a extremely high tempo in all of Europe. For example, here in Norway, in the EU referendum in 1994, only just above 52 percent voted against the EU, while today, more than 65 percent of the population is against. And this is happening all over Europe.

[Keronians]

The Eu is a Capitalist, secular so-called democracy,

So-called? The European Parliament is directly elected, and all the members of the EU are liberal democracies.

only made to serve the largest countires of Europe (Germany, Britain, France, etc),

Do you realise how much the EU invests into eastern Europe?

While for smaller nations it is like a dictatorship. Is only good for the largest coorporations, no one else.

The EU kills local democracies, and centralizes most forms of power and administration to Brüssel.

What are you talking about? The EU promotes liberal democracies, and most power is most certainly not centralised. The EU can only govern where it is competent. To be competent, a piece of legislation must have been passed.

They consciously neglects smaller countires and its people, and denies counties true independence. Those in power would rather see a fully united Europe, as one country. They wants a superstate.

Yeah, neglecting them by allowing them to petition the ECJ and General Court, and granting them fundamental rights, protecting their right to live and work in other countries, while being able to move freely, etc. How ebil.

As for the superstate, no. Federation, actually, and that has been the goal from the start.

Hopefully, it will fall soon, which is also very likely, as the opposition to the EU is rising in a extremely high tempo in all of Europe. For example, here in Norway, in the EU referendum in 1994, only just above 50 percent voted against the EU, while today, more than 65 percent of the population is against. And this is happening all over Europe.

The only problem is that... Norway was never IN the EU! Have you looked at the seats on the European Parliament recently? Only 7.5% of the EP is eurosceptic.

And it's happening all over Europe? Nope. Iceland, Turkey, Serbia, etc actively seek to join the EU.

[Keronians]

Fuck you guys saying you want a federal Europe! The countries of Europe deserve their independence, not be enslaved by the EUSSR. At least we still retain some freedoms unlike the united states where the government screws over it's people without them even realising. The EU only works as an alliance of nations of Europe, like a regional UN, not countries so joined together they might as well be provinces of Brussels. Greece is fucked because of it, Ireland might follow suit, Spain or Italy or both may soon default. Unless the organization disbands or reels in it's crappy system the peoples of Europe will soon lose their self determination.

Spain will not default. A Spanish default (or an Italian one) is the equivalent of a second world recession, and the collapse of the Euro.

You list the problems with the Euro, which are completely visible. A single fund and a Eurobond is necessary. I agree.

You retain some freedom? Where do you live, pal?

Lose their self-determination? Like the Scots and the Welsh did, amirite?