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Democrats take seats in Wisconsin : Both Sides Claim Victory

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Greater Cabinda
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Democrats take seats in Wisconsin : Both Sides Claim Victory

Postby Greater Cabinda » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:41 am

Madison, Wisconsin (CNN) -- Republicans retained four of the six state Senate seats that were in jeopardy in Tuesday's recall elections in Wisconsin, the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel reported.

Democrats won two seats but needed three to take control, the newspaper reported.

The recall election stems from the bitter battle last winter that saw pro-union protesters camping out in the state capitol and Democratic senators fleeing the state in an unsuccessful attempt to halt legislation by Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker that some felt was anti union.

Democrats were angling to win GOP-held seats to capture control of the upper chamber. Before the election, Republicans held a 19-14 majority in the state Senate. With a victory Democrats had hoped to build momentum for a planned effort to recall Walker.

Walker, who was elected in November with strong support from tea party activists, can't be recalled until after he serves a year in office.

Republicans have countered with their own recall attempts against three Democrats. One of them survived a challenge in July, while two others will be on the ballot next week.

Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus applauded the results of the Tuesday vote.

"Today, Wisconsin voters rejected the reckless spending of Wisconsin Democrats and the downgrade-inducing policies of their Washington counterparts. They have given their seal of approval to Republicans' successful efforts to balance the budget and ensure a healthy economy," Priebus said.

Priebus also said the vote was also affirmation on Walker's policies.

Walker set off a firestorm in January when he moved to curtail the collective bargaining rights of most state employees. With majorities in both houses of the Legislature, Walker and his GOP allies voted to limit raises for public employees except police and firefighters to the rate of inflation, bar unions from deducting dues from workers' paychecks and force them to hold a new certification vote every year.

Republicans insisted that the legislation was necessary to control skyrocketing public employee benefit costs and close a budget shortfall, while Democrats called it an attempt to gut public-sector labor unions, one of their core constituencies. The state Supreme Court upheld the legislation in June.

While Democrats would not have been able to roll back the union restrictions with control of only one chamber of the Legislature, they would have been able to block any of Walker's other initiatives.

Tea Party Express Chief Strategist Sal Russo said he was pleased about the vote.

"The importance of those achievements cannot be overstated," Russo said. "Wisconsin has set an example that the Nation as a whole should follow."


http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/08/10/wisconsin.recall.elections/index.html?hpt=po_bn1

tl;dr The Wisconsin State Senate recall elections have resulted in the Democrats taking 2 of the 6 seats in Republican-leaning districts that they challenged them in. This leaves Democrats as the minority in the Wisconsin state senate.

While I'm pretty sure conservative pundits are going to take this and run with it, I'm pretty sure they're forgetting the simple fact that people were pissed enough to get 2 Republicans out of power (which, because one Republican in the State Senate is opposed to Walker's policies, means that his policies will be blocked until the recall elections for Governor in January). This is an undoubted victory for the progressive movement as a whole. We've managed to oust 2 politicians for their policies. That's a first.
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Lackadaisical2
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Postby Lackadaisical2 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:45 am

'People' or just the people who happened to vote in this special election?

I'm glad the Republicans retained control.
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Postby Shrillland » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:22 am

Victory? The Republicans still hold the Majority, we were defeated and the Progressive cause has failed in the face of Corporate money. 2 seats won't mean anything since the Republicans all vote solidly one way.
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Postby Eternal Yerushalayim » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:28 am

1 in a district that is solidly Democrat and was only won by the GOP because of strange voters, and the other who is an adulterer...
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Postby Shrillland » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:31 am

Well who cares about that really?

The point is we did not achieve what we set out, and in this battle there was no middle result. We did not succeed so we clearly failed.
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Postby Nansurium » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:33 am

This is a victory for the right and indicative of what is coming in 2012.
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Postby Aionia Epitychia » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:33 am

Thats not entirely true. Wisconsin State Senator Dale Schultz (R-17) was the only Republican to vote against the Scott Walker bill. So if you call him a Democrat (for purposes of this discussion), and you assume that all remaining Democrats (16 of them now) oppose Walker and the other 16 Republicans vote for Walker, and you throw in Schultz as a Democratic wild card, the Senate-Walker relationship now swings towards the Democrats by a vote of 17-16. This would remain the case as long as the two remaing Democrats who are up for recall win their races (they are incumbents). So not all is lost for the Democratic Party, but they do have to rest their hopes on a man who sometimes opposes Walker and sometimes stays conservative.

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Postby AiliailiA » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:34 am

Greater Cabinda wrote:
Madison, Wisconsin (CNN) ...

Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus applauded the results of the Tuesday vote.

"Today, Wisconsin voters rejected the reckless spending of Wisconsin Democrats and the downgrade-inducing policies of their Washington counterparts.


:palm:

Bottle had it right, as regards Reince Priebus:

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Postby Shrillland » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:35 am

Aionia Epitychia wrote:Thats not entirely true. Wisconsin State Senator Dale Schultz (R-17) was the only Republican to vote against the Scott Walker bill. So if you call him a Democrat (for purposes of this discussion), and you assume that all remaining Democrats (16 of them now) oppose Walker and the other 16 Republicans vote for Walker, and you throw in Schultz as a Democratic wild card, the Senate-Walker relationship now swings towards the Democrats by a vote of 17-16. This would remain the case as long as the two remaing Democrats who are up for recall win their races (they are incumbents). So not all is lost for the Democratic Party, but they do have to rest their hopes on a man who sometimes opposes Walker and sometimes stays conservative.



Exactly. We can't put our faith in someone who sometimes opposes Walker, we needed someone who would oppose him all the time. And with the Majority comes the Committees, which means we will still see Committee votes that violate Open Meetings laws.
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Postby AiliailiA » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:37 am

Nansurium wrote:This is a victory for the right and indicative of what is coming in 2012.


Losing two out of every six seats they currently hold. Yep, that's the House to the Democrats.

You're gonna get crushed.
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Postby Trotskylvania » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:38 am

Nansurium wrote:This is a victory for the right and indicative of what is coming in 2012.

Losing two normally safe seats in off-year recall elections is a victory?
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Postby Nansurium » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:39 am

Aionia Epitychia wrote:Thats not entirely true. Wisconsin State Senator Dale Schultz (R-17) was the only Republican to vote against the Scott Walker bill. So if you call him a Democrat (for purposes of this discussion), and you assume that all remaining Democrats (16 of them now) oppose Walker and the other 16 Republicans vote for Walker, and you throw in Schultz as a Democratic wild card, the Senate-Walker relationship now swings towards the Democrats by a vote of 17-16. This would remain the case as long as the two remaing Democrats who are up for recall win their races (they are incumbents). So not all is lost for the Democratic Party, but they do have to rest their hopes on a man who sometimes opposes Walker and sometimes stays conservative.


Just because Schultz voted against the Union bill doesn't mean that he will continue to oppose the republican party. He will be under tremendous pressure from both parties and from his constituents. If he wants to be reelected he will follow the party line or pull a Ralph Nader and switch caucuses. Also the Republican's still hold a huge majority in the State Assembly.
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Postby Aionia Epitychia » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:40 am

Oh I agree with the fact that because the GOP still holds the objective majority, they still have control of the committees, but in general these recall elections have just made the Wisconsonites view of Walker more complicated. Its exacerbated a state that is having a mini-civil war with itself. Marx may have been a prophet when it came to the wealthy v. the middle class & poor, but when it comes time for 2014 (forget 2012-Obama will win it) and Walker is up for reelection, the vote may be very reminiscent of 2000 Florida Bush v. Gore. Both sides have resources, and everyone has a stake in the election. Expect some big things in the Senate and the years to come.

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Postby You-Gi-Owe » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:41 am

Greater Cabinda wrote:While I'm pretty sure conservative pundits are going to take this and run with it, I'm pretty sure they're forgetting the simple fact that people were pissed enough to get 2 Republicans out of power (which, because one Republican in the State Senate is opposed to Walker's policies, means that his policies will be blocked until the recall elections for Governor in January). This is an undoubted victory for the progressive movement as a whole. We've managed to oust 2 politicians for their policies. That's a first.


"While I'm pretty sure conservative pundits are going to take this and run with it"? Looks as if you, on the liberal side, can't wait to put your own spin on this.

"We've managed to oust 2 politicians for their policies," 2 things: What you mean, "we," white man? AND It happens EVERY DAMN ELECTION POLITICIANS ARE DEFEATED BECAUSE OF THIER POLICIES.

The Labor Unions, who gambled truck-loads and truck-loads of their members dues, failed to get control away from the G.O.P.

Looks as if the majority of Wisconsin voters are still sane.
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You-Gi-Owe
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Postby You-Gi-Owe » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:42 am

Ailiailia wrote:
Nansurium wrote:This is a victory for the right and indicative of what is coming in 2012.


Losing two out of every six seats they currently hold. Yep, that's the House to the Democrats.

You're gonna get crushed.

^ Pipe Dream. :roll:
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Postby Aionia Epitychia » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:43 am

Nansurium wrote:
Aionia Epitychia wrote:Thats not entirely true. Wisconsin State Senator Dale Schultz (R-17) was the only Republican to vote against the Scott Walker bill. So if you call him a Democrat (for purposes of this discussion), and you assume that all remaining Democrats (16 of them now) oppose Walker and the other 16 Republicans vote for Walker, and you throw in Schultz as a Democratic wild card, the Senate-Walker relationship now swings towards the Democrats by a vote of 17-16. This would remain the case as long as the two remaing Democrats who are up for recall win their races (they are incumbents). So not all is lost for the Democratic Party, but they do have to rest their hopes on a man who sometimes opposes Walker and sometimes stays conservative.


Just because Schultz voted against the Union bill doesn't mean that he will continue to oppose the republican party. He will be under tremendous pressure from both parties and from his constituents. If he wants to be reelected he will follow the party line or pull a Ralph Nader and switch caucuses. Also the Republican's still hold a huge majority in the State Assembly.


Just because the GOP has a large majority in the Assembly does not mean that they will get anything done. If Schultz continues to play the role of moderate-conservative in such a polarized body like the WI Senate, then the Senate all of a sudden plays the role of a filibuster. Both houses will gridlock a-la Congress and this will infuriate both sides, which will elevate the importance of Walkers re-run for Governor and the fate of the Capitol.

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Postby You-Gi-Owe » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:43 am

Nansurium wrote:This is a victory for the right and indicative of what is coming in 2012.

God, I hope you're right.
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Postby You-Gi-Owe » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:44 am

Aionia Epitychia wrote:Oh I agree with the fact that because the GOP still holds the objective majority, they still have control of the committees, but in general these recall elections have just made the Wisconsonites view of Walker more complicated. Its exacerbated a state that is having a mini-civil war with itself. Marx may have been a prophet when it came to the wealthy v. the middle class & poor, but when it comes time for 2014 (forget 2012-Obama will win it) and Walker is up for reelection, the vote may be very reminiscent of 2000 Florida Bush v. Gore. Both sides have resources, and everyone has a stake in the election. Expect some big things in the Senate and the years to come.

Marx probably would have prefered "visionary" to "prophet". :p
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Postby Shrillland » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:45 am

Aionia Epitychia wrote:Oh I agree with the fact that because the GOP still holds the objective majority, they still have control of the committees, but in general these recall elections have just made the Wisconsonites view of Walker more complicated. Its exacerbated a state that is having a mini-civil war with itself. Marx may have been a prophet when it came to the wealthy v. the middle class & poor, but when it comes time for 2014 (forget 2012-Obama will win it) and Walker is up for reelection, the vote may be very reminiscent of 2000 Florida Bush v. Gore. Both sides have resources, and everyone has a stake in the election. Expect some big things in the Senate and the years to come.


No, don't forget 2012. Walker's up for recall next year himself, if the momentum isn't irretrievably broken by this defeat.
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Postby Eternal Yerushalayim » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:45 am

You-Gi-Owe wrote:
Ailiailia wrote:
Losing two out of every six seats they currently hold. Yep, that's the House to the Democrats.

You're gonna get crushed.

^ Pipe Dream. :roll:

I'd be surprised if all the Libs don't turn up at the polling booth looking tipsy and cast votes for Republicans instead of Democrats.
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Postby Farnhamia » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:45 am

Aionia Epitychia wrote:Oh I agree with the fact that because the GOP still holds the objective majority, they still have control of the committees, but in general these recall elections have just made the Wisconsonites view of Walker more complicated. Its exacerbated a state that is having a mini-civil war with itself. Marx may have been a prophet when it came to the wealthy v. the middle class & poor, but when it comes time for 2014 (forget 2012-Obama will win it) and Walker is up for reelection, the vote may be very reminiscent of 2000 Florida Bush v. Gore. Both sides have resources, and everyone has a stake in the election. Expect some big things in the Senate and the years to come.

We probably don't have to wait until 2014, since there are plans to recall Walker as soon as he's been in office a year.
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Postby Nansurium » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:46 am

Aionia Epitychia wrote:Oh I agree with the fact that because the GOP still holds the objective majority, they still have control of the committees, but in general these recall elections have just made the Wisconsonites view of Walker more complicated. Its exacerbated a state that is having a mini-civil war with itself. Marx may have been a prophet when it came to the wealthy v. the middle class & poor, but when it comes time for 2014 (forget 2012-Obama will win it) and Walker is up for reelection, the vote may be very reminiscent of 2000 Florida Bush v. Gore. Both sides have resources, and everyone has a stake in the election. Expect some big things in the Senate and the years to come.


A prophet eh? So now Karl Marx is a messenger from God? I thought most communists were typically atheistic... :eyebrow:

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Postby Farnhamia » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:47 am

Nansurium wrote:
Aionia Epitychia wrote:Oh I agree with the fact that because the GOP still holds the objective majority, they still have control of the committees, but in general these recall elections have just made the Wisconsonites view of Walker more complicated. Its exacerbated a state that is having a mini-civil war with itself. Marx may have been a prophet when it came to the wealthy v. the middle class & poor, but when it comes time for 2014 (forget 2012-Obama will win it) and Walker is up for reelection, the vote may be very reminiscent of 2000 Florida Bush v. Gore. Both sides have resources, and everyone has a stake in the election. Expect some big things in the Senate and the years to come.


A prophet eh? So now Karl Marx is a messenger from God? I thought most communists were typically atheistic... :eyebrow:

If the economy does not make considerable strides by election day Barack Obama will not be reelected and with economists everywhere talking about a second or double dip recession things aren't looking up for the President.

And if that's true and the Republicans are given their heads to slash and burn government spending, you're going to look back on this year and weep for the good old days.
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Postby Greater Cabinda » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:50 am

Trotskylvania wrote:
Nansurium wrote:This is a victory for the right and indicative of what is coming in 2012.

Losing two normally safe seats in off-year recall elections is a victory?

Apparently.
Shrillland wrote:The Republicans still hold the Majority,

A technical majority. One of the Republicans is opposed to Walker's policies and has sided with the Democrats on Union-busting issues, giving them a de facto majority.
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Postby Greater Cabinda » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:51 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Nansurium wrote:
A prophet eh? So now Karl Marx is a messenger from God? I thought most communists were typically atheistic... :eyebrow:

If the economy does not make considerable strides by election day Barack Obama will not be reelected and with economists everywhere talking about a second or double dip recession things aren't looking up for the President.

And if that's true and the Republicans are given their heads to slash and burn government spending, you're going to look back on this year and weep for the good old days.

I think we all will. Because cutting student loans will cause a lot of problems...
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