Riots in North London (and other UK cities)

[Trixiestan]

He shouldn't have been rioting, and he shouldn't have tried to evade.

*shrugs*

By getting off his bike and standing still?

This^

There's a bit difference between incapacitating someone and clobbering some poor bastard when he's on the floor. Hell, one of the riot officers even managed to get an extra kick in before his mates dragged him off camera.

[AiliailiA]

no need for silly gadgets - the police have been given a mandate to rough people up -

and here it is in effect.... BAM to your EYE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1b74BdPfSQ

Six or eight cops, against three or four cyclists (I'm guessing they're kids or they'd be in a car). Cops catch one of them, taser him, baton him ... for what? Resisting arrest?

Pretty disgusting.

[Grave_n_idle]

By getting off his bike and standing still?

This^

There's a bit difference between incapacitating someone and clobbering some poor bastard when he's on the floor. Hell, one of the riot officers even managed to get an extra kick in before his mates dragged him off camera.

No sympathy, I'm afraid.

If you don't want to get a kicking, don't riot.

Throwing your hands up when you're caught doesn't undo the firebombs and violence you were playing with 10 minutes earlier.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

Chopper had been following them for 10 minutes, no?

So? The job of the police is by and large not to punish those who are committing and offence. The courts get that pleasure

They tried to evade, and he stopped when he saw he was shut down.

And after he admitted defeat he was repeatedly struck with a baton

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

Throwing your hands up when you're caught doesn't undo the firebombs and violence you were playing with 10 minutes earlier.

Again the police are not Judge Dredd

[Grave_n_idle]

no need for silly gadgets - the police have been given a mandate to rough people up -

and here it is in effect.... BAM to your EYE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1b74BdPfSQ

Six or eight cops, against three or four cyclists (I'm guessing they're kids or they'd be in a car). Cops catch one of them, taser him, baton him ... for what? Resisting arrest?

Rioting.

AND resisting arrest, probably.

[Grave_n_idle]

And after he admitted defeat he was repeatedly struck with a baton

He gets up immediately after. He's not hurt.

[Grave_n_idle]

Throwing your hands up when you're caught doesn't undo the firebombs and violence you were playing with 10 minutes earlier.

Again the police are not Judge Dredd

I didn't say they should kill the rioters.

But if you're a rioter, and a cop whacks you in the head a few times, tough shit - I'm not going to cry for you.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

He gets up immediately after. He's not hurt.

Aye and were I to punch and kick someone while a mate hit them with a baton I doubt the courts would like that as my defence

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

I didn't say they should kill the rioters.

My point is that their job isn't to determine the punishment and dish it out.

[AiliailiA]

By getting off his bike and standing still?

Chopper had been following them for 10 minutes, no?

They tried to evade, and he stopped when he saw he was shut down.

At which point he was under arrest.

Grave_n_idle, you were so strong in the Parents Gone Soft thread against corporal punishment by parents. How can you possibly be advocating far more severe corporal punishment by police? It seems very hypocritical.

[Grave_n_idle]

He gets up immediately after. He's not hurt.

Aye and were I to punch and kick someone while a mate hit them with a baton I doubt the courts would like that as my defence

Indeed. But then, you're probably not tasked with keeping the peace and/or catching those responsible for crimes.

[Grave_n_idle]

I didn't say they should kill the rioters.

My point is that their job isn't to determine the punishment and dish it out.

That's not the punishment. That's the amount of force required to enable them to bring him before the powers that will decide what the punishment is.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

Aye and were I to punch and kick someone while a mate hit them with a baton I doubt the courts would like that as my defence

Indeed. But then, you're probably not tasked with keeping the peace and/or catching those responsible for crimes.

So where's the line exactly? Once the victim can no longer stand that's when they've gone too far?

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

My point is that their job isn't to determine the punishment and dish it out.

That's not the punishment. That's the amount of force required to enable them to bring him before the powers that will decide what the punishment is.

Ridiculous. A man standing still having got off his mode of escape does not require that level of force.

[Grave_n_idle]

Chopper had been following them for 10 minutes, no?

They tried to evade, and he stopped when he saw he was shut down.

At which point he was under arrest.

Grave_n_idle, you were so strong in the Parents Gone Soft thread against corporal punishment by parents. How can you possibly be advocating far more severe corporal punishment by police? It seems very hypocritical.

First, you might want to actually read my posts in the Parents Gone Soft thread.

Second - there's a big difference between whether mommy should take the belt to little Timmy, and whether or not the cops should be allowed to hit you in the head with a baton for rioting.

[Grave_n_idle]

That's not the punishment. That's the amount of force required to enable them to bring him before the powers that will decide what the punishment is.

Ridiculous. A man standing still having got off his mode of escape does not require that level of force.

I'm not interested in your crocodile tears for criminals. If he didn't want to be hit with a baton, he should have stayed home and watched Corrie.

[Grave_n_idle]

Indeed. But then, you're probably not tasked with keeping the peace and/or catching those responsible for crimes.

So where's the line exactly? Once the victim can no longer stand that's when they've gone too far?

I didn't say that. If he can't stand, he's definitely not going to be escaping - THAT might be the required amount of force.

I assume they whacked him a little till they could get him in the paddywagon, or get cuffs on him.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

I'm not interested in your crocodile tears for criminals.

Oh I really don't give a shit about a rioter. I give a shit about the police being supported in unneccesary violence. They have a shitty history of not being able to keep themselves in check and all that.

Edit : And unfortunately the fear put into them following their antics in the recent past is being undone by the baying for blood by the general public

[The Parkus Empire]

And after he admitted defeat he was repeatedly struck with a baton

He gets up immediately after. He's not hurt.

This coming from the same person who argued slapping to be abuse, in the corporal punishment thread?

[Grave_n_idle]

I'm not interested in your crocodile tears for criminals.

Oh I really don't give a shit about a rioter. I give a shit about the police being supported in unneccesary violence. They have a shitty history of not being able to keep themselves in check and all that

Not really. They have a few aberrant marks on an otherwise pretty damn good record.

As for 'necessary violence' - smacking a rioter in the head doesn't seem unnecessary.

But then, I'd be okay with live fire being used on the rioters.

[Grave_n_idle]

He gets up immediately after. He's not hurt.

This coming from the same person who argued slapping to be abuse, in the corporal punishment thread?

Vegetarians are all pacifists.

I know this, because two things in entirely different spheres just have to be connected.

[The Parkus Empire]

Ridiculous. A man standing still having got off his mode of escape does not require that level of force.

I'm not interested in your crocodile tears for criminals. If he didn't want to be hit with a baton, he should have stayed home and watched Corrie.

Oh, ffs. This is always the argument used to justify police brutality. It bugs the shit out of me.

[The Parkus Empire]

This coming from the same person who argued slapping to be abuse, in the corporal punishment thread?

Vegetarians are all pacifists.

I know this, because two things in entirely different spheres just have to be connected.

They don't, but saying, "He's not hurt," about someone who was repeatedly beat with a baton, is a remarkable trivialization when you're someone who acknowledges that slapping hurts.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

As for 'necessary violence' - smacking a rioter in the head doesn't seem unnecessary.

I agree

But then, I'd be okay with live fire being used on the rioters.

We all say silly things some times.